Jol Wilkinson

The only references I can find on t'web for pine oil in tissue relate to wrapping products for citrus fruit and toilet tissue. As HT already pointed out, most if not all etched kit suppliers use acid free wrapping tissue which is not difficult to obtain.

I think farren's reference to pine oil may be something of a red cannon (or is it a loose herring?).

Jol

 

Your second idea might be best as that will allow the valve gear to be removed as a single unit with the cylinders and slidebars.

 

If the curved link is firmly attached to the frames by the motion bracket, that will make removal tricky.

 

Tony

The cast slidebars should have sufficient strength and rigidity to make the complete assembly practical. That's the approach I used on the LRM LNWR Jubilee, but there is no valvegear to worry about.

However I made the cylinders, slidebars and Joy valve gear for the LNWR Teutonic a fixed part of the frames with a drop in slot (perhaps that should be a push up slot) for the leading driven axle and bearings. That axle doesn't have any connecting rods, which makes life easier. Also the slidebars are built up from etches and each pair is separate from the cylinder end casting, so it is easier to assemble with the cylinder and motion plate already fixed in place in the frames.

The attached photos show the test etch builds for the Jubilee cylinder assembly (the drain cock linkage had to be thinned down considerably) and for the Teutonic frames.

Jol

Whether or not the MR locos were as bad as they are now considered to be is another point that is debatable. The LNWR were pretty dire, and if the LMS suffered by following MR loco designs, what would have happened if they had followed LNW standards and methods?

You have championed the cause of the Midland and sought to justify the relevance of their small engine policy under their operating policy, so it would be proper for you to qualify your condemnation of the LNWR locos.

Currently listening to Yello "baby". Decided to dig out the LPs and start to record them to the pc/CD using Spin It Again. made me realise what a great old collection I've got and how good my hifi is when you put something decent on it.

Brilliant record, on a par with Yello's Flag, known for the "Race".

Me too, Arthur........Dave`s work always inspires; and having seen those neat RSU results; I`ll be saving-up hard to make a purchase.

John Redrup of London Road Models has just invested in a new batch of RSU cases (now in stainless steel), so availability is assured fro some time. However, with the cost of raw materials continually increasing, he cannot guarantee that the price will remain  at £175.00 for too many months.

He can be contacted at lrmenquiries@hotmail.co.uk to check availability, price and place orders for collection at shows (listed on the home page of the new LRM website www.londonroadmodels.co.uk)

Iain,

another approach might be to produce some rivetted brass panels using a GW (or similar) rivet press. Mine has a screw operated table, so that rivets can be produced in lines and at equal spaces. That might work for the "edge" strips, six sided plates, etc.

Etched rivet strips are also available, e.g. http://www.scalelink.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escalelink%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fScale_1_87___HO____Echelle_1_87__HO___________%2ehtml&WD=rivet&PN=Special_Meshes___Mailles_especiale%2ehtml%23aSLF016#aSLF016

Jol

Brassmasters do a Cleminson chassis: http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/cleminson_underframe.htm

 

John

So do London Road Models for LNWR six wheel carriages. http://www.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/carriages/lnwr-carriages/

Neat PVA, applied from a pointed tool to form small "blobs" is a technique that was once popular for adding rivets but has fallen from favour since printed rivets became available. You could resurrect it.

Slaters also do a plasticard sheet of rivet "strips" but they may not be suitable in this case. Sheet 0431 https://slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/embossed.php

You are very generous.... Perhaps the start of a whole "How not to...." series....?

 

I hoped that the business side was indeed the important one - and the photo of the two completed sections is without any cleaning up at all, so hopefully it will scrub up well enough.

 

I'm by no means a soldering expert as you can see, in fact almost a complete beginner, but I have had a go and I'm learning (from many mistakes and an isolated success here and there). I've done a lot of soldering of rail to copperclad timbering and this was the first time with Carr's 188.

 

Iain

Iain,

I would suggest that 145 solder may help. It needs less heat input to get the solder to flow better. I think Green label flux is what Carrs/C&L would recommend, but I have only used LRM 12% Phosflux (with their solder) for years so can't really comment on the suitability of various Carrs fluxes.

Jol

I haven't seen it mentioned (possibly because this thread is about painting) but, from my experience, the Ratio bogies are hopelessly fragile to expect any kind of reliable running.  I would tend to give the etched brass products a try from Brassmasters:  http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/bogie_CUs.htm (haven't actually tried these but intend to)

 

I have used the MJT products:  http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt.php#SuspensionSystems-CarriageCompensationUnits and these work very well.

 

You will need to use the Ratio components as cosmetic sides.  Make sure you get the right wheelbase.

 

John

I agree with John about the Ratio bogies.

The Brassmasters units are very good, simple to assemble and easy to add the Ratio bogie cosmetic sides. Don't forget you also need new wheels and pinpoint bearings (Markits or Alan Gibson). I would recommend those in preference to the Ratio moulded wheels any way.

Now I think about it, there was a massive P4 WCML layout in New Zealand being built by a Bill Richmond (if I recall correctly) which appeared in MRJ some years ago. It was set in c. 1939 and covered a sizeable chunk of the southern end, including Euston in truncated form, Tring cutting and c. Don't know how far it's progressed since then, but I would like to know. The standard of modelling was very impressive, but the only worry I had was that there were cobwebs in some of the photos. Had anything run for a while?

 

Does anyone know any more of this project?

Terry D

I believe that Bill Richmond passed away a couple of years ago. AFAIK nothing has appeared in the UK magazines about his layout for some time.

 

I'm probably not the only person who now finds himself looking for reasons to buy the fantastic RTR offerings and stretching the bounds of historical credibility in the process.

 

Larry,

I would suggest that defines the majority of modellers, although some will not see the need to justify any suspension of disbelief.. The downside is that layouts could become increasingly similar in terms of the area/location/period as they are defined by the stock available to run on them.

However, your approach of using modifying RTR locos and kit/scratchbuilding carriages goes beyond what most modellers will attempt, probably being content to purchase RTR products alone.

Jol

Hi all

 

I am modelling perhaps the most disliked station on our system, birmingham New Street although I am modelling it during 1986/87 when at least the trains were interesting! The model covers from the Wolverhampton tunnel mouth to as far as proof house junction. This will be my lifetime project

 

Cheers

 

Jim

Jim,

they were much more interesting pre-WW1.

Jol

Yep OK fair dos, Thanks for that, but I won't be changing them as its not what I have seen in reality so I will stick to what I have seen.

As you are modelling what has been "preserved", that's absolutely valid.

It is however unfortunate that preserved items are sometimes incorrectly restored or painted, especially when the correct information is readily available. I think that it is important for the preservationists to get it right (especially if it doesn't add to the cost) as that is the only way that many people will encounter a preserved item from that railway or period.

Hello LNWR modeller, Yes the coach is a kit bash... as i mentioned, i am not at the high end of the skill level of this forum so apologies for this.

 

Indeed the LNWR observation car is not in great condition down there at present, with paint flaking off oneside... which is a bit sad, but i expect they will repaint it soon once they have some room to do it.

 

The ends of the coach roof will be painted closed to the end of the project, indeed I agree they look a bit thick, but yes they will be painted I have noted that before doing the roof, having only sprayed the roof white there is still some painting remaining to be done on the underside and the ends so not to worry.

 

If you look at the later images the door drop lights are painted... I asked whilst down there as the coach was in service end of July, and they were painted not natural mahogany which the frame is... which is a shame in my view as mahogany has a beautiful grain to to it.

All be looking at an image which i assume is quite early an not the best to judge... I would not expect the window / drop light frames to be as dark as they are unless they were painted... all be it is a black and white photo... but ya know I just model what I see

 

LNWR Liveries (HMRS) states that the droplights were varnished mahogany or teak (mahogany would be darker). The bolection mouldings, i.e. the mouldings around the fixed windows, were painted "venetian red" to match the varnished droplights. Venetian red is similar to red oxide, although I use Humbrol 73, Wine red.

The attached may help show what I mean.

Unfortunately the photo of the prototype shows it lined out in white. The LNWR carriage livery used an umber/yellow colour, meant to simulate gold lining. If the Bluebell livery is meant to represent the original, then I'm afraid that they got it wrong (but then the NRM have painted the roof of the LNWR 2-4-0 Hardwick white, so I suppose a degree of obvious error is now regarded as acceptable).

It's unfortunate that you couldn't replicate the rounded corners of the lining with the transfers, as that was also a fairly distinctive feature of the LNWR livery.

The door droplights were originally varnished mahogany, not white. The ends of the carriage roofs were also painted in carriage lake (coach plum). The roof on the model looks rather thick at the end, so this would disguse that.

If you are modelling the carriage as preserved then you've got it fairly well correct, but for a LNWR enthusiast it is a shame that is it not how it was intended to look originally.

I think this is more what you mean?

The radius of the curve was 7in, so about 5mm between the "verticals".

The slope of the ladder is 1 in 12, so the curve is less than a full semi-circle.

The toggle is to get around the finial.

I hope I can get the old one off without doing too much damage.

 

Steve.

Hi Steve,

yes, that looks just like it, it was such a distinctive arrangement.

Jol

Steve,

the attachment for the "over the top" ladder was such that the ladder rails curved over and back down vertically. This brought the top of the ladder quite close to the post and the arm or blinder, depending on front or rear mounting for the ladder. It's well shown in Richard Foster's book on LNWR signaling.

It may be that the angle of the photo disguises it, but the ladder fixing to the post doesn't look vertical and the radius of the curve doesn't look tight enough.

Jol

My biggest frustration about football is that it takes over the media, news programmes, etc. to the almost total exclusion of other sports, which are not usually played by overpaid prima donnas.

And why aren't footballers paid on results, rather than "apparent" expertise or their ability to fall over and cry when touched by the merest breath of a breeze?

Mick,

I stand corrected, I had only looked at the last few pages where the locos are fairly prominent.

As for my comment, if something is in the most appropriate section, then those most interested in it are more likely to see it.

Jol

Mick,

nice work, but shouldn't these be in the Modifying and Detailing RTR section?

Is nobody modelling Scottish pre-grouping?

I have no reason as a SR, GWR and Southern Pacific modeller to own one of these...but I want one.... A Beyer-garratt going through the snowsheds of the Sierras or descending Willamette pass on a club layout would be fun....

Think of yourself as a collector rather than a modeller, and you won't have to justify buying one.

Over-complicated kits. I mean ones where the final result could have been equalled with fewer fiddly bits of plastic. The Ratio Provender Store seems to have been designed by someone whose other passion was jigsaws - the more pieces the better. As it's not cheap this is silly. We buy such kits to save time in layout construction - not for the fun of assembly. I think Bachmann launched an RTP version for not very much more money, but this seems to be largely sold out. I wonder why?

Ian,

for some of us the "fun of assembly" can be more important than quickly building yet another layout.

As for Bachmanns's RTP products rapidly selling out, isn't that an indication of the unwillingness/inability of lots of modellers to actually make anything?

Jol

5% of modellers.

Andy,

I am torn between saying - Only 5%? - and - Which 5%?

Jol