Jon4470

I also appear to have got a liking for exGNR saloons. I acquired this via eBay Apparently these were hired out for party bookings (works outings, football etc)……so I figure that Leeds or Bradford could be playing Newcastle or Middlesbrough …..enough of an excuse (I think) to attach this saloon to a train on the Leeds Northern.(I’m hoping that those teams might have met each other in the 1930s….apologies to football fans for my lack of knowledge) The kit is quite old and very tarnished: It also included some of these🙂 So, now I’ll be able to finish off my current project! Jon PS The tarnish does come off the etches, I’ve cleaned one piece up just to make sure!

The primer went on yesterday and I now need to inspect thoroughly and fill as necessary. Thoughts have also turned to the next carriage. I planned to make the second of the First Open carriages that ran in the Northern Belle. Last night I started on the order for all the bits I needed (along with the bogies for the saloon). At that point the MJT site told me that the underframe etches are out of stock……… on to plan B…….Plan B is the other carriage that I need to complete the Northern Belle - the D45 all steel BG. I think that I have all the bits for that kit…..so it will keep me occupied until the floor is back in stock at MJT🙂

Ready for the paint shop now! And the other side I don’t think it looks like much has progressed since the last post! The underframe is now complete, except for the bogies that I haven’t ordered yet. The roof details are all in place as well. The carriage is still in 3 large components- underframe, body and roof. The roof will be attached to the body after I have fitted the double sided tape that will hold the glazing in position. Jon

Hi Chas No - I don’t think you are putting words in my mouth. My theory (or more accurately ….my hypothesis) is only there because (so far) there is no definitive evidence about what the colours actually were at the various stages and evolutions of the livery. I think that all of the authors, and sources, have some of the evidence but it’s very difficult to be sure whether the colour references are correct for each style of body painting. For instance: 1. I had heard that the lining was gilt - perhaps this was just for teak? 2. Red or Red/black lining - just the red/ cream? Or did it carry over to the green/cream? 3. On the green/cream livery was the lining Green for both lines or just one? etc It would be great if a contemporary account turned up that was very specific. If I was planning to paint a railcar today in green and cream, I think that I would probably paint a dummy side and try the various lining options….then use the one that I like the most😃 Jon Apologies - I think I am repeating myself on this post a bit

I agree. The Harris book that I’m reading at the moment says that the 3 was discontinued in 1941. Jon

Big Four in Colour has a picture of Sentinel shutter 8400 that shows double red lining. The out side line is much thicker than the inside. I have just been browsing an old Michael Harris book “Gresley’s Coaches” dated 1972. It has a tantalising bit of detail…. ”From 1929 onwards, new and existing railcars were painted in the cream and locomotive green later used for the Tourist stock. The cream panels were picked out with a 3/8 in. line about 1 in. from the panel edge.” Unfortunately no mention of the colour of the lining! His later books don’t seem to include this statement ( I suspect because they were really about the standard carriages). I don’t know what source he had for this information. It seems to me that a logical sequence would be (I realise that logic and LNER paint schemes don’t always go together😀) : 1. Red and cream lined as per the NER scheme - black outside line and red (body colour) inside 2. Move to green and cream. Retain black outside line and body colour inside line ( now green) Now at anytime, of course, they could have moved to two body coloured lines Probably best just to paint up a model - should guarantee that concrete evidence will emerge….. and be different to the model😀 Jon

Chas My understanding about the locos built by outside constructors is that they painted by the contractor. I’d guess that there would be variations based on each quote etc (and maybe the livery in question). There is an example that comes to mind where a batch of J39s were painted black with red lining by the contractor…..several years after the LNER stopped the lining for these locos. The reason was the contractor had an out of date spec! Jon

The saloon is progressing, and is now starting to look like a carriage🙂 There was quite a lot of fiddling and fettling required to get the sides straight…..in all three planes! This time I built the roof off the model. Careful measurement was required to ensure that the domed end castings plus aluminium centre section actually fitted the body! Doing it this way meant that the filling and filing was much easier. It was also easier to get the gutters aligned correctly. And the body shell is like this I will glue the roof onto the body shell when I have finished work on both components. I may even paint the body shell before fixing the roof - might make the teaking a little bit easier. Next job is to finish off the under frame ….. and to order some bogies. Jon

Certainly is……..Hope was the last one in service I think.

Hi Mick As I understand it the D96 and D97 are virtually identical. The two main differences are that the top lights don’t open on the D97 (replaced by drop lights) and the sliding window behind the drivers door was replaced by a wooden shutter. in the kit the top lights don’t have any framing to show that they could open and the panel behind the drivers door is solid…so I assume it is “wooden”. TBH the two diagrams are so similar that it makes little difference. Jon

I’ve been looking though the photos in the various source books and, from what I can see, the arrow head lining was applied to the upper beading whenever that coincided with vertical beading on the lower panels. This included the beading adjacent to the doors. The arrow head lining was applied as well as the panel lining - and this shows up well in Mike’s earlier post. I’d forgotten how many varieties of railcar were produced for the LNER! As far as I can tell the NuCast kit is for a Diagram 97 railcar……so I think Green/cream or wartime brown are the available livery options. Jon

Chas You could look at this site https://www.lightrailwaystores.co.uk/collections/works-plate-styles?page=3 This used to be called Narrow Planet I think. I used them for name plates for Spencer. Jon

Hi Chas It is a while since I looked in detail at the power bogie options. I think that there are kits available from High Level and also Branchlines. I would be very happy to use any of these but I don’t think that they are available with 28mm wheelbase though. It maybe possible to modify the existing kits - and, of course, the kits will have lots of bits that are needed anyway whatever the wheelbase. I haven’t really looked in detail at the options - or spoken to either of this suppliers yet. My main aim will be to fit a very large motor though…. I’ve already built the kit with the white metal chassis and roof😬….built in the days when I just followed instructions! Jon

For anyone interested in North Eastern Railway and North Eastern Area model kits the following link maybe of interest: https://ner.org.uk/model-supplies/ There are lists of models available for 4 mm and 7mm and this covers locos, carriages and wagons. A number of people have collaborated on the compilation of these lists. The intention is to add more to them over time (especially second hand availability and the joint stock carriage kits). If anyone spots any errors please let me know ( preferably by PM) and I’ll get the lists updated. Jon

Hi Chas For the power bogie the wheelbase is 28mm - and I don’t think there are any of this wheelbase commercially available anymore - with a very powerful motor that is. So my plan is to scratch build one. The power bogie and motor that I had in the kit will hardly move itself, let alone the whole railcar. Researching the lining for these vehicles could be interesting! I’ve quickly looked at a number of sources this evening ……and I think I’ll be able to spend quite some more time studying further. I looked at Yeadons, RCTS vol10, Haresnape and British Railcars by Jenkinson and Lane. Nowhere could I see confirmation of the style and colour of the lining. Then I remembered Big Four in Colour. There is a photo of Eagle with a caption that says ”the cream panels were lined with a fine double green line”. Photos in the other sources show this double lining on the front panels and the also on the larger panels on the sides. There’s a very clear front view of Nettle showing this lining. You’ll love this ……the corners are just like the ones on your lovely loco🙂 (I.e. internal quadrants) So far, it has been difficult to make out the lining that Mike’s post shows. So, I’m not sure if that lining was applied as well as the panel lining, or instead of. And, of course, some photos look like there is no lining at all! I also wonder if there is a black line between the green and cream…but that might be a shadow. Hope this helps and as I say plenty of studying to do. Jon

I’ll take a look at these books tonight….I’m interested in this subject because I have a nearly complete railcar in a box. It needs to be lined, needs an interior and a power bogie! jon

Chas Really impressive results. I’m pretty sure (but could be wrong🙂) that the Sentinels had some very fine gold or similar lining…. … if true, that should add to the fun! Jon

I can certainly see the depth of the green colour now. I think it will interesting to see the effect that overall gloss varnish creates. I have a feeling it will make a difference......... And then when you add the transfers another change in the perception of the colours could well happen. Whatever does happen, though, I’m sure the loco will look (even more) fantastic. Jon

Chas i haven’t dared to comment earlier in case I jinxed things! The lining looks fantastic - you’ve achieved a beautiful and neat finish! Jon

Since my last post I have added the transfers to the BFK.......until I discovered that I had no more “Guard” transfers in stock! I’ve ordered, and now received, more transfers so I can continue.......... In the mean time I started on another carriage for the Northern Belle. This is the saloon number 46. In addition to the Northern Belle it was used in royal trains - including the funeral train for King George V. This is a unique vehicle, and a few years ago I sourced a kit from Bill Bedford. The carriage had a central saloon sandwiched between a first class compartment and a third class compartment. Just to add to the (modelling) interest the compartment ends were narrower than the saloon. Now, that means that there is no continuous side to the carriage......so I will build the body in sections. First up, the saloon: THat was straightforward because there are two partitions between the sides thus forming a nice box. The third class end looks like this Again, there are two partitions..........so why do I only have one side built up?The reason - the other side is wrong on the kit! This is the drawing of the other side This is what is supplied in the kit The right hand doors are the wrong way round....the glazed door should be at the end. I pondered what to do for a few days (including the inevitable - why bother with anything because no one will know?) ....until last night. Then, I realised that I just needed to swap the top half of each door.....so now the side looks like this Next step is to form the turn under and fit to the other side. Then I will have two sections to join up. Jon

Best use of a drying rack that I have seen for a long time🙂

Some of the transfers on the D20 were completely “dry”......not sticky at all (they are meant to be methfix). So I used this stuff: First time I used this. Just paint on the back of the transfer and leave to dry. Then use as normal using the meths to activate the French polish. Worked a treat and the transfers were usable. Jon

While I was working on Barber (which, truth be told, sort of intervened in my plans...in a nice way🙂) I made steady progress on my other projects. The D20 is now lined and numbered. The next stage is some, gentle weathering. I have also started glazing the BFK. This is happening quite quickly because I fitted double sided tape when I was building the carriage. So glazing is...cut clear plastic to size, peel off protective layer on tape and press down. No danger of glue getting on the glazing. Just the top lights left to glaze on this side. Jon

I think I’ve got to the point where I will declare Barber finished. I’ll re-visit in a few weeks to correct a few thing s when I have fresh eyes. The following photos show the loco warts and all......some wobbly handrails on the right of the cab, some over heavy lining etc. Overall though I’m happy with it......and it runs well😀. I’ve experimented with oil paints for the weathering having watched a few You Tube vids from AFV modellers. I’ve tried for a lightly weathered look using pin washes, streaks and dry brushing. And I need to fix the kettle in place 😄 Photos in next post.....trouble uploading!