Brassey

With my pragmatic head on, I think the Irish Mail would have been up to 12 coaches long. It is quite an undertaking to build a layout large enough in 4mm to accommodate such a train so some compromise might be needed so one dining car might suffice. Thankfully the Irish Mail did not run between Shrewsbury and Hereford and the marshalling diagrams I have show only one diner per train on my line so one LNWR will do me. Of course I also have to build a GWR dining car too. This was in a train made up of GWR stock that started at Liverpool Lime Street. This would have run to Shrewsbury behind an LNWR loco; quite a sight! Due to my North to West obsession of course, I omitted the fact in previous post that Holyhead trains also started at Euston! Some of these may well have included through carriages from some of the Southern railways. Also foreign excursions to the North Wales resorts of which the L&Y springs to mind though there may well have been others. The fine detail of all of this will be available in the LNWR Society archives.

Yes. The kit includes both cast whitemetal and etched smokebox fronts. I cut down the lower section of the etched versions to achieve the correct pitch. I used the Mallard wrapper which is half-etched and very thin. I filed down all the rivet detail and used this in reverse, soldering it to a 10 thou brass ring/tube to give it some rigidity. Now being slightly over length, I filed the ends down once it was formed. The random rivets on mine are pure guess work! An inserted brass ring also is used to produce the brass ring on the inner side of the smokebox. Ian Rice's articles on the Barnum, back in the day, showed the problems he had with the thin smokebox wrapper. The pic I have of Severn has a 2500 gallon tender I think though I have an earlier picture of her with a 2000 gal tender in as-built condition. Received wisdom is that the later Dukes were outshopped with 2500 gal tenders though the picture shows otherwise. This pic is I think a 2500 gal version as seen at Hereford on what appears to be a corridor train: Incidentally, the picture of 3216 shows straight springs on the tender which means it is a later pic also evidenced by the crews' uniform possibly 20's or 30's. It still has a polished dome! Thanks for that pic MissP because it shows a wealth of detail I did not have; I had not appreciated how close the outside cranks were to the frames for one. Also it has justified all the fettling I had to do to get the the splashers to curve around the shape of the firebox! Interestingly, it appears that the top centre washout plug is through a boilerband. If you did that on a model someone would complain...

There was also a Llandudno business club train that commuted city type gents to and from Manchester. This might have included a diner (or two) too.

I think both. Again I don't have a reliable drawing but I have based the lower pitch on the round-top S4 boiler. These engines quickly reverted to B4 domed boilers after 1912 (as per the splendid 3216 above) so the BR0 format was not long lived and not well recorded. I have a BR0 Duke to build too. There is a picture of 3328 Severn at Hereford in such a guise as my proof. For that one I have no drawing at all. My Mallard kit was devoid of a boiler when I bought it many moons ago, so I had to create a new one anyway; I do also have a number of round-top brass domed locos in the kit mountain to build for those who might think it a crime to omit a shiny dome on an Edwardian Great Western loco!

Modellers World did the 12-wheel LNWR diner which kit moved to 247 Developments under the previous owner but was not transferred to the new business. Jol Wilkinson built one recently for London Road and I have one in the kit mountain.

Yes well spotted thanks MissP. I am only using 3222 as they are the etched splashers that came with the kit and I don't have the means to etch new ones. The build is pretty generic and, as I said, I don't have a drawing of the front, so I used the cab arc from the Mallard kit. That way if saves me making a new roof. On some of the engines, the whistles moved to atop the firebox which also looks odd to me so mine will remain on the roof. In 1912 3222 was at Swindon and made a trip to the works in August of that year. It is unlikely to have visited the Shewsbury to Hereford line so will be a bit out of place on my layout but I fancied something different. By 1912 it would have received the extended smokebox as per the picture in Russell; so another compromise. Looking at this crop I notice the boiler band brackets atop the firebox so another job for the list!

I don't have my sources in front of me but IIRC, cattle was sent on the hoof to Birkenhead where it was slaughtered and the fast LNWR meat trains left from Birkenhead. I think the one to Smithfield was called "The Meat". Of course my memory could be playing tricks. The LNWR had a major presence at Birkenhead through the "Birkenhead Joint" jointly with the Great Western. Substantial Banana traffic went through Garston Docks Liverpool after that was built which would have avoided the Manchester Ship Canal.

On the workbench is a Great Western Barnum which I am building from an old Mallard kit. It will be in the BR0 raised firebox without dome format which 3222 sported around early 1910. The Mallard kit features the extended smokebox which a couple of the engines received shortly thereafter. I do not find the extended smokebox attractive so I had to chop a certain amount off the front of all the frames and footplate. This is quite a bold move as complete kits of these fetch large sums on eBay. The chassis frames are Alan Gibson which I think I did as a special order some time ago: Assembled chassis frames. The raised firebox needs a new cab front with the portholes pitched higher to clear it. As I have no drawing of the front of these locos, I botched one together, stuck it on a piece of brass and cut it out. I had some Belpaire formers in my spares box which I cobbled together to create the raised version. I have no idea where these originated and even if they are GWR but they will do. Completed firebox. Firebox, boiler and smokebox sub assembly Current state of play. The wheels are Mike Sharman. I will fit the rear axle when I know for sure that the High Level RoadRunner gearbox will be a good fit up into the firebox.

Any Goods traffic destined for GCR lines and vice versa could have been marshalled via goods facilities at said stations. I do not know whether the GCR had access to the goods yards at Connah's Quay or Chester. However, I think it would have been unlikely that goods from Ireland destined for Great Central lines would have been sent via the LNWR and Holyhead when the Great Central itself had a major presence at Birkenhead which also served Ireland.

Unless I am greatly mistaken, the bulk of the Irish cattle traffic went through Birkenhead.

All the Webb classes: Coal Engine 0-6-0, Precedent 2-4-0, Cauliflower 0-6-0, Coal Tank 0-6-2T, 2-4-2T's, Whitworth 2-4-0 and of course the Webb compounds. Later into the 1900's you have 4-4-0 and 4-6-0's. None of these, except the Coal Tank, are available in 4mm RTR so it would be better consider the kits that are available and those you might want to build. Apart from the Irish traffic via Holyhead there were local passenger and excursion holiday traffic. There was also goods traffic; to/from Ireland such as butter and local goods and minerals. The GCR had no running rights on the North Wales line being pure LNWR, as far as I know, though there were probably some through carriages. Traffic originated from Liverpool or Manchester and ran via Chester

IIRC from my youth, Marklin 3 rail is AC not DC

The Broad Gauge Society sell these underframes separately on their website

IIRC the Broad Gauge Society supply cast vents that form part of the IKB range they have. You can order these off their website: http://www.broadgauge.org.uk/modelling/bgs_parts_prices_4mm.html

I have a Slaters plastic clerestory roof earmarked for the one PeterK etch I have in the kit mountain. CooperCraft used to sell these as separate items and I think I picked some up at a show a while back. Beware; these could still be showing on the CooperCraft website but I believe the range has now reverted to Slaters.

Can't use solid soldered rods in a P4 CSB chassis as that will counter the desired compensation/springing. Gently opening the holes with a tapered broach is probably the best solution here short of rebuilding the whole chassis PS: you should be able to get a GW wheel press at Scaleforum at the end of this month otherwise check out the ads in MRJ for mail order edit for PS

Thanks for the explanation of a simple but ingenious solution. I guess the same principal can be used for full cab tank engines. Peter

Your freight system does not seem to take account of fitted and unfitted trains, unless I've missed something

Hi Ken `how do you make the roof detachable? I intend to do this on my 4 wheel and 6 wheel stock. Peter

If one is going to the trouble of making your own turnouts, then prototype practice is the best guide, and the timber spacing of which remains the same irrespective of gauge; EM, P4 or otherwise. I built mine, to the best of my ability, to 1909 LNWR Permanent Way specs with the help of Templot. Contemporary GWR spacings would no doubt have been different. IIRC S4 Society templates are based on LNER standards.

IIRC the K's has a standard Belpaire boiler (as does the Mallard). I have dismantled mine but think the smokebox is a separate casting.

Anything that was rebuilt after 1908 could have been outshopped in the lake allover livery. I presume the Hornby C15 is not lake.

It is impossible for all of the class designations to have been changed over on one day so it is highly likely that some compartments were still labelled 2nd class in 1912/13

If you got that miniature blowtorch it would be fairly simple to desolder he whole thing. IIRC there might be a vague throw-away reference to the footplate width in Ricey's article but its a long time ago now!

What about trying Worsley Works. although I model in 4mm the also do a lot of 2mm. They have produced etches for me in the past from my own drawings. No connection etc... http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/2mm/2mm_LNER.htm