Brassey

Skills start with a mindset and you are not displaying the mindset of a typical scratch builder. You posted this in the kit and scratch building section. a scratch builder will have a specific prototype in mind that is not achievable through any other means.

Then buy a ready to plonk model or a kit...

Interesting. On mine the door vents were separate whitemetal castings...

Yes and no. It had only one side of the body etches. I used a Perseverance chassis so left the Falcon one. I think most of the chassis was there including a tender chassis. But there was no tender body at all! I have used Branchlines outside frames for the Bird class and their splashers too. I scrapped the firebox as it was woefully short and had to lengthen the coned section of the boiler too as that was too short.

Bulldog Bird class of 1909 work in progress. The basis of this is a Falcon Brass etch that I acquired last year. Had to wait a while for the gearbox (High Level) and wheels (Ultrascale):

4mm to the foot. Good to see a layout. Any particular station? Peter

Recently one of these etches has reappeared on eBay. Coincidently I have started doing battle with the Falcon Bulldog etches I also acquired off eBay. I have found that the firebox is way too short so had to scratch-build that. That's on top of there only being one hand for a lot of items and no tender body. Luckily I had set of outside frames in a Dapol City detailing kit so overcame that problem. The coned boiler is also slightly short.

Brassmasters do an etch of the padlocks in the Finney range if you want to recreate that detail. Part E14: https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/gwr_etched_components.htm

I seem to recall reading that the King preferred the LNWR Royal Train and this was kept in LNWR livery even into the LMS days, so maybe there was a royal fondness/connection to two-tone liveries.

Railmotor at Bewdley. Acknowledging the adjacent LNWR tail-traffic through carriage from Woofferton to Birmingham, the contemporary GWR stock is in chocolate and cream.

My version; no.1425 in brown complete with dodgy lining and wrongly place garter crest on the PBV:

Not so rare. You can tell it's the brown scheme from the lining and the cream cab insides: RCTS lists all the brown 517's. Most if not all had full cabs and outside bearings to the trailing wheels. Most were probably also autofitted at some time. PS: just the clarify, the lining on green locos was 2 orange lines whereas this has only one. You can see that around the cab the lining is edged in black

in both instances the gold/ochre lining is on the quadrant. The shape of the quadrant on a plastic kit is different to that on an etched kit. Some have commented that the Slaters kits are more of a challenge to line.

The previous picture to this in Edwardian Enterprise states "the first GWR auto-train at Southall" so the colour scheme possibly dates back to then. I do not know how long the colours lasted but I have a 517, no. 1425, on my layout set in 1912 still in brown. It's my only homage to the brown livery but if anyone has evidence to the contrary please let me know.

The author states he had access to the minutes of the Paint Committee. The first Chairman in 1912 was Stanier's father. I cannot see if he says where the minutes reside though as it is a Great Western Study Group publication they may well know or indeed have them.

The brown locos were painted well before 1908 in the early Churchward period and intended to match the contemporary Chocolate and Cream carriage stock. The cabsides were originally cream as were the cab interiors. There is at least one picture shewing the cream cabsides. I lined mine in orange. IIRC some 850's got an overall coachlike body painted to match the carriages too. I think the pics are in Edwardian Enterprise.

The make up of LNWR paints is covered in the book LNWR Liveries Talbot et al. But no such equivalent detail is documented on GWR paints. That is with the exception of the GWS book “Structure Colours 1912-1947 From Official Sources” by Richard North. This includes the work of the GWR Paint Committee 1912-1927. I guess there are not too many people interested enough in pre-grouping carriages for anyone to have fully researched the official sources on that. Any volunteers?

but 2 of the magazines reported on ONE County Tank being turned out in Crimson Lake in 1909 but none of them noticed a change to the entire carriage fleet in 1912? As I’ve said before, the only way to resolve this would be to go through the minutes of the various paint committees at the GWR to see if there is a mention.

So despite this being a homage to the brown livery, in conclusion Mikkel, you too are now coming round to the opinion that the "brown" period never actually existed and is fake news. The fact is that you have researched but found no mention of a change in 1912 in the Railway Magazine , I have found nothing in The Locomotive Magazine of the time. And GWW confirms that it was totally missed by the Great Western Magazine too. And the reason why it was not reported is the change in 1912 NEVER HAPPENED; the colour was red from 1908.

Herewith a couple of shots of Jeremy Suter's railmotor which show what can be achieved. Interesting the two different shades from the same camera on the same day:

LNWR quadrant lining:

I mentioned that the GWR Crimson Lake lining was on the quadrant so here's what it should look like: This is not easy to achieve but you have to lie the pen down low to do it rather than how Mike Trice does it on LNER stock. This is described by Ian Rathbone in his book and demonstrated in his DVD both of which are copyright. Some modellers line the sides before the coach is assembled. Others with the coach flat on the bench. I find holding the coach in one hand whilst running the pen along the quadrant best for me. You do all the vertical lines first on one side in one direction. Then the other direction, then the horizontal lines. I use a rule on the long horizontal bottom lines. You try to fill the corners in as you go along. Allow to dry fully before attempting the other side.

I have generally followed Ian Rathbone's technique illustrated in both his book and video. Mike Trice has posted a few videos on Youtube showing coach lining too. The gold/yellow lining on GWR and LNWR pre-group coaches goes on the molding quadrant not the panel. The Crimson Lake lining above on the PBV does not have black on the molding so is quite unforgiving whereas the GWR choc/cream and LNWR have the molding lined too which helps. I use a bow/ruling pen with gloss paint onto a gloss painted surface. Gloss paint is easier to clean off when you make a mistkae whereas with matt the lining sinks in and is harder to wipe off. I have pens from Haff and also more recently Kern. These can draw fine lines. However I think the consistency of the paint is key. It needs to be quite thick. I have used Humbrol 7 buff which is what Mike Trice uses and was also advocated by Coachman ex of this Parish. The current Humbrol is probably too thin and I think the line spreads once applied. So I have acquired some PP Gorse Yellow which is what Ian Rathbone uses but am yet to try it. For the black I use Humbrol gloss black. All can be toned down after with varnish. On LNWR coaches I must give credit to Jol Wilkinson's article in MRJ on lining coaches. But I am trying to develop the same technique for both companies so have deviated from his. I do have some PP LNWR lining buff but also use Humbrol 9. Humbrol 9 is also used on GWR locos with some red added to create the orange lining. I guess if you can't get Humbrol or Phoenix Precision paints then it is a matter of experimenting and a lot of trail and error. I find gloss paint lines best for me but Jol uses matt. But always onto a gloss surface. All the paint I use is gloss enamel. Jol and others use cellulose car paints for the base. It has to be hard and allowed to dry. For the curved lines it is necessary to use a ruling compass to follow the curve and it is this that has given me the worst lines as per the Duke. I have recently acquired a Kern compass to replace the old school set I have used up to now but am yet to use it. Good ruling pens are hard to come by and I have found, like Ian Rathbone, that the ones with the shorter blades are best. I think Haff still have one for sale on their website which is where I got mine. I got my Kern from a friend. Otherwise it's look out on auction sites.

"Renown" itself was converted quite early; well that's my excuse for running it in 1912 anyway!

I've almost finished an old Jidenco Coal Tank with a London Road Models chassis. This follows a whitemetal K's one with the same chassis. Not too happy with the lining on that though. I also have an LRM Precedent to do.