Miss Prism

I haven't read it, but I'm sure I've seen pics of unlined upper fenders, which I can't put my finger on now. (And besides which, Hornby seems to have also seen such an absence judging by their early EP.) Quite possibly I've put the emphasis the wrong way round, i.e. despite upper lining being dispensed with on all continuous fenders (e.g. the 4000g), the upper fender lining was still the norm on the Churchward 3500g rather than the exception. Tender swapping between express passenger and non-express passenger locos is also a factor in my opinion, as is the far longer repaint timescale for tenders. But I'm grateful for your observations and those of others in the last few days on the matter, and it is only by these debates that we can fill in some knowledge gaps. The problem area is that Churchward 3500g tenders were no longer being fitted to express passenger engines post 1932-ish (for Halls), the Counties had disappeared by then, so we are left with the 1932 to 1938 window in respect of the Saints and Stars. I have no issue with the post-1945 situation, but the only clear visible examples that have come to light are the 'full-monty' special behind the oil-burning 5091 and the individualistic practices of Caerphilly.

E129 B-set behind the large Metro tank at the sandbagged Oxford. The E129 was comparatively rare outside of their originally native Bristol division - is the lettering on the coach end decipherable?

The upper lamp iron should be lowered to be on the smokebox door for 4018's shirtbutton era. Not convinced about the buffers, it's difficult to tell whether any prototypes had Collett taper type (which is what Hornby have put on) - most kept their Churchward taper types until late days, when Collett parallels tended to be replacements. The thing that jumps out to me is the apparent fitting of a Castle outside cylinder set, which 4018 never had, but it will need a good side-on shot to confirm that. Nice Grange chimney on 4061 (which is right, I think, for its last years). The upper tender fender lining can be argued both ways, but it would have been a safer option for Hornby to have given a post-1927 GREAT coat of arms WESTERN on the tender, when upper fender tender lining was still mandated. And they could have then left the front lamp iron where it is!

Yes, but that's a 'special'... An oil-burning Star would be good modeller's licence though, particularly for Brent.

I'm warming to Cookham, having looked at the comparison pics 'the other way around'.

Mike - I think the Y8 Fruits were all fitted with screw couplings.

First find yourself a pic of a post-war G badge W liveried version with a flush-riveted Churchward 3500g tender... Haven't we been round this loop before?

Oooh, yes, forgotten about the Dolgelley line...

And how long have you been sitting on those pictures, Andy?

Yup. Already noted in the Hall thread. It wasn't possible to comment on that aspect of the Star before because we only had Hornby photoshop versions to go by, and it seems Hornby still hasn't got a camera to photograph its products with. (Thanks, Kernow.) If the tender in the Kernow pics is flush-riveted (as will be the case I understand for Steam Swindon's Lode Star), what I think is interesting is the change in that tender from design-clever to design-expensive. If however it is snaphead riveted, which is more in line with what the 4018 prototype was post-1934, maybe Hornby has used its Grange/28xx product.

It's got the right chimney!

Not convinced about Cookham.

Hmmm - what kind of duties would a Machynlleth-based (or visiting) Collett 0-4-2T have?

Great Western Way is singularly vague about lining on tenders pre-WWII, but I think there remains a legitimate 1930s question over the lining of the fenders on the Churchward 3500g. For the post-WWII period, notwithstanding the detailed official painting spec*, I'm scratching my head as to whether there were any 3500g Churchward tenders still qualifying for express passenger livery - Roger's upthread observation from Gone With Regret of 4013 at Chester in 1946 with a 3500g with G crest W seems an exceptional case. Does that pic show any lining? * Given in GWW and on Ian Rathbone's site, but note his tender lining illustration pictures are of Lode Star in early livery style.

I'm of the opinion that tenders probably weren't repainted as often as locos, and the other complicating factor is that locos usually picked up whatever was most suitable after a works visit, the 'pool' of Churchward 3500g tenders being adequate, particularly after the first allocations of the 4000g began (the Kings of course, but mainly to Castles and Halls etc in respect of tender type change), so it's difficult to infer the general 'tender livery' situation from a specific photograph, except that unlined locos ran with unlined tenders, and lined locos ran with tenders with at least some lining on them.

Oxford, for the Metro tank??

Lining on the upper fenders of Churchward 3500g tenders was phased out at some unknown date, possibly c 1930 onwards for some repaints, but they could still be seen with roundel insignia as late as 1939.

Sounds like Colin's made a punch...

Nice to see some horseboxes in crimson lake.

Is the inside of the solebar recessed (width-wise) for the wheeltop arc, and what is the between solebar dimension at this point? 14mm? 13.5mm? Is the N gauge wheelset over-face 11.8mm max?

Is it normal in 2mm scale to have grossly undersize wheels and where the sideframe axleboxes assume wheels of even smaller diameter?

That's quite a tragedy.

Steam Swindon now stating availability "from mid November".

Good choice of wagons.

Presumably that's a 1500V d.c. pantograph rather than a 25kV a.c. one?