rembrow

Thanks for the clarification Andy, however Dennis Lovett's explanation for the non appearance in the 2014/15 catalogue doesn't make sense, as the catalogue is a retail catalogue intended for retail customers and not a pure trade catalogue, so although sold out by Bachmann, it will still be released to the retail trade in the current catalogue year and there will be stocks available, hopefully for some time, in retailers. No catalogue has actually shown the 3 items in their final model state and until Andy's posting at #45 most of us didn't know which versions were open cab and which were closed cab versions. The magazines are unlikely to review all variants, probably only one, so customers not using sites like this and relying on the catalogue could conclude the model is no longer available, or have to seek out info from their retailer

Brilliant Dave, you've made a semi old man very happy!!!. I was hoping one of the model makers would produce a Class 71 in their plans this year, as it has been so high up on the wanted surveys and is one of the few Diesel and Electric BR types not yet produced, plus it has the aura of links to the Golden Arrow service in the 60s. I will definitely have 2 Green versions. The only pity is I may have to pension off my DC Kits kit built 71 with a 'cut and shut' Hornby Class 90 chassis with late motor, an excellent runner. This now means that all of the D&E models that I've made over the last 20 years are produced or planned as rtr models, that shows the level of progress and innovation by the model makers.

Ian A hint that may help you to avoid 'Yodel' with Hattons. When I queried with them why they hadn't followed my original order request when I selected 'Royal Mail' they advised they use 'Yodel' to speed up delivery, but if a customer specifically wanted to use Royal Mail their advice was to type this in the comments box on the order format. I now always type 'Please use Royal Mail for delivery'

I was told at my local shop today, that the 60ft First Brakes were despatched from Bachmann yesterday and are expected in shops from next Monday. Seems the 57ft Second Brakes are coming later.

For me there are 2 top wants on my wish list. A Class 71 southern region and an S15 mixed traffic. Another fave but no-hoper is a 4COR multiple unit, but you have to dream. I'm hoping the first 2 have a real chance to appear on a manufacturers list this year--pleeeeese!!!

Gwiwer, can't understand why you pointed out a 4 pence error in the values I quoted as surely that is of no significance to the overall context of the price increase that I was quoting, unfortunately I didn't have access to the correct value, seems rather picky. I may be wrong but it seemed to me that you thought I was disagreeing with your position, which I am not, as I too find it difficult to accept the prices now being applied to these commissioned models, however we have made different decisions about the actions we will take, which is as it should be.

I recently had an excusive Invicta product order come into stock, where the Bachmann price had increased significantly prior to release - the Royal Mail twin BG set. Invicta were excellent in contacting me and explaining the issue, they did e-mail me and advise me of the new price and asked me if I wanted to go ahead. They do not have control over the prices Bachmann set and it was clear from the original Bachmann announcement that exclusives would also be affected. This has undoubtably put pressure on the retailers who have commissioned exclusives, as with the levels of increase being applied, they have a real risk of suffering significant cancelled orders and have stock that takes much longer to shift (if it shifts). I know that Kernow are in a similar position with their commissioned Delabole slate presflo set, which has risen from £44.95 pre-order to an expected £79.95. I am caught with a few of these pre-order price increases and do intend to honour the commitments I've made to those retailers I've ordered from, which includes 2 maroon CCTs, as its clearly not a situation that they have created, however I've decided that I will not pre-order any further Bachmann proposed releases or exclusives as I want to be clear about what the final price will be before making a commitment. It's also worth remembering that the Invicta price includes postage and packing for UK orders, which does make a difference, even with the higher prices.

I must show my appreciation to Hattons for maintaining the original pre-order price on my order for Bachmann porthole coaches, in spite of a manufacturers price increase of over 40%. They have shown considerable goodwill to their customers by holding the ordered prices and it will not go unnoticed. I have many other pre-orders with them and I'm confident they will try and maintain the original order prices, but if they can't it will be due to exceptional circumstances. Many thanks Hattons, now awaiting the delivery.

I've been advised by Hattons that 3 of my 5 Porthole coach orders have been processed at £24 plus p&p, the remaining two are the brake coaches. I was advised by another retailer that at £24, Hattons would still make a small profit if they received all possible normal trade discounts from Bachmann, but it would not be sustainable. That aside, they have given unexpected service and proved that they are prepared to meet their pre-order price commitments. They did advise me that it would only be in exceptional circumstances that they would consider increasing a pre-order price, and I believed that an increase in the order of 45%, as has occurred with these coaches, would be considered exceptional, so good on you Hattons-well done. I suspect that these type of pre-order guarantees will not be available for Bachmann products in the future, as most future models are not being priced and mail order companies will now be wary of such potential future price increases.

I had the same response from Hattons, on 16th May they answered my e-mail query to confirm that the pre order price I had for 5 porthole coaches and a Heljan Hunslet Class 05 would be supplied at the original pre-order price, despite there being significant price increases from the model companies, in the case of the Class 05, the price had risen from £77 to £100. I will wait and see if I get them, as I fully expected to pay a higher price, albeit with perhaps some additional reduction to recognise the pre order status. In the 'Bachmann Why Price Increases are Necessary' thread (now locked) I had wondered if retailers would be able to discount the Porthole coaches by more than 15% of the new selling price, even for pre-orders, due to the Bachmann trading terms for new models, however Andy Y advised that these coaches were announced by Bachmann prior to those terms being introduced. If Hattons are able to supply at original pre order prices, they will gain much customer satisfaction and appreciation

Kernow Model Rail have advised in this weeks newsletter that Bachmann have sold out of all 3 'C' classes and Kernow have sold out of 31-463 -SECR version, with low stocks of the other two versions. They seem to be going as fast as the first run 18 months ago.

Just received this weeks newsletter from Kernow Model Rail and in it they advise they are expecting to receive all six types of Bachmann 'porthole' coaches next week.

It's telling that the new rrp for the Bachmann NBL Class 43 Warship is now higher than the current advertised price for the proposed Kernow NBL A1A pilot scheme Warships and they are a limited volume production. I must say that I always thought that the original rrp was low for a new tooling diesel model as the price was on par with the old Mainline tooled Class 42. I wonder if part of this large price increase has been due to an original error in the valuation.

Let's not forget that in the mid 1980s, Dapol (in the David Boyle years) proposed a ready to run LMS Beyer Garrett, but abandoned the project a couple of years later. I never knew if it was due to technical problems or financial, as by then they had gone on a model tooling buying spree buying up the ex Airfix/GMR and some Palitoy/Mainline tooling with oodles of stock that took years to shift and their new model plans seemed to evaporate. They had also bought significant amounts of old Dr Who model tooling at a time when the programme franchise was on the wane.

Excellent choice and I've just negotiated with swmbo that this will be my 63 years birthday present (or 64th if delayed) so result all round. An iconic piece of railway heritage that for me is worth having in model form no matter what era you operate -well my excuse. Others have commented on the reasonableness of the price and I agree completely, much less than I would have expected for a DC installed twin motor multiple. Considering another manufacturer has indicated that to produce further 6 carriage multiple units would retail at £500 plus, this model throws that pricing plan aside as if you did go for the extra carriage option, a 6 car APT would be just less than £325 (if I've got my sums right) - less than the Blue Pullman when first delivered. As far as deposit is concerned, I believe that Locomotion have in the past requested deposits for their commissioned new tooling models, so it may be their requirement.

Apologies if my last post was ambiguous about the expected date of arrival of version 266208 with Hattons. The reply I had from Hattons is that they are expecting this version to be received by them in July and it is most likely it will be towards the end of July. Hope that helps

I had a very quick response from Hattons, there customer support replies are really very fast. They have advised that 266208 will now be shipped with the other remaining versions and they are expecting these towards the end of July.

I've also had Heljan version 266208 on order since August 2011. I emailed Hattons this morning to check the change of expected availability from June to July and sought assurances that it was going to be produced, having been previously let down with the Hattons/Dapol 10000/10001 late BR Green versions. They have confirmed that this version is in production now, which is good news, however I've just sent a supplementary q as if its still in production I can't see the stock arriving into the UK until August, if it isn't yet shipped in China. I'll post an update if I get a response

With no surviving example and probably few, if any, original drawings, this project was always going to be extremely difficult. There have been similar problems with the Dapol proposed North British Class 21/29 model and that was suspended indefinitely at one stage. In that case it was only the finding of some original drawings by Strathyre from this forum that enabled the 21/29 project to restart. I've read recently that in addition to the provided drawings, Dapol are also using the Fred Phipps master of his Class 29 model to produce CAD plans and that model was already completed. I don't know how long Fred Phipps has been involved in this project, but I read that after he completed the masters and kit parts for his last Gauge 1 project, A BR Mark 1 SK, he took a break from commercial model making, so that may have had an impact on this project's timescale. I'm content to 'keep the faith' as I'm convinced the model will be the best that can be achieved, and outside of Kernow's commitment, it is unlikely another manufacturer would venture into trying to produce such a model with such limited prototype information. As BOB250 has said, I don't know when I'll see the Bulleid diesel, so I'll need to dust down my Silver Fox 10203, it's already had one chassis replacement!!

Dave One of the frustrations for us rtr buyers, are products advertised by manufacturers, where years later we are still waiting. Your previous employer is a prime example with a number of projects (Turbot, HIA Hopper, MJA Bogie etc) that I'd lay money you were instrumental in the decision to produce, which 4 years after announcing are still a far off dim light in the tunnel (sorry for the metaphor, but it is a rail one). Many of us perceive these announcements to be premature and more designed to protect the model from other potential manufacturers. How can you, as a new and relatively small fish, ensure that you don't get caught in this trap as there are a lot of expectations on DJ Models to produce its proposed range as quickly as possible. You have made a flying start, as originally IO understood you were going to use returns from the first model to fund subsequent model tooling, however you have embarked on tooling for 1 'oo' gauge and 3 'n' gauge models at the same time, that was unexpected. Regards Terry

I suspect that Kernow are having to wait for all the masters of the Gauge 1 model to be completed, the latest being the bogie side frames. On one Gauge 1 site there is a posting that advises that its hoped to produce a full Gauge 1 D600 model from Fred Phipps parts by July this year, so the masters must be near completion. One other fact I've picked up from Western Thunder Gauge 1 site, is that Fred's masters will only be accurate for D600 and D601 as they incorporate the different bevelled recessed edges on the side grilles only used on the first 2. Presumably this can be adjusted when preparing the CAD work from the laser scans

In fairness 45568 (Peter) I don't subscribe to Facebook/Twitter either, however Kernow provide daily Facebook links on their main website Home page at the bottom right hand side. I occasionally scroll down these and click on those I'm interested in, which I can view without being a subscriber. I'm sure the O2 and D600 latest developments will be in their weekly newsletter in the next week or two, again you can subscribe and get it automatically by e-mail, or view the latest edition from a link on their home page. Interestingly I've just seen on another site, showing the work of Fred Phipps in 1/32, whose model of a Class 29 is supposedly being used by Dapol to help produce CAD drawings of their proposed 'oo'gauge 21/29 model, that Fred Phipps is producing a D600 in kit form via resin and has been involved in this development for 2-3 years. On that site it said in a posting from 2012 that Fred's master was going to be used by Kernow for their 'oo' gauge model. It also says that it is hoped to build the first complete model by July this year. Is it possible that Fred Phipp's masters are being used for the Kernow model?

Fully agree with Gwiwer, I have several of their commissions on pre-order and am more than content to wait. What stunned me and caused me to post last night, was the level of detail on the EP bogie side frame and gear for the D600, it is awesome. That shows a significant step forward for this project as they had already shown an EP sample of the complete body last year.

We don't know where the D600s are being made. The announcement from Kernow last November advised that the development of the O2 and Gate Stock was leaving Dapol and would be managed by Kernow directly with the Chinese factory with these two projects being overseen by Dave Jones of DJ Models. The statement said for the other 3 projects - Tiger Clay Wagons, Bulleid diesels and D600 Warships, that work would continue and these would be produced under a new commercial agreement, of which details would be given in due course. I don't think that new agreement, if its been made yet, has been published, so its uncertain about who is carrying out the R&D- is it Dapol is it DJ Models or someone else. Certainly at present Kernow have suspended pre-orders on the Tiger Clay Wagons which indicates that project has been delayed.

Have just seen an article in July BRM regarding an update on Dapols proposed models R&D progress. For the 73 there is a photo of 3 bodies from the first test shots, although it is quite small. The narrative described that the tests shots are from the 73/0 type and that the 73/1 R&D has been 'restarted from scratch'.