NeilHB

Thanks Andrew. I may end up incorporating aspects of my original plan into this one, possibly in one or other of the modules I have planned. I have rough ideas for approximately 5 modules (including a FY one) which would various aspects of the Tramway: 1 - Cowan Head - the mill at the furthest end of the line, probably using the plan from post #1, or a modified version of it. 2 - Entrance to Bowston village (3rd photo down in post #1 - the Simplex and the 4 wagons) - this is the point that the Tramway rejoins the road, having run for the previous 1/2 mile or so on the verge from just before Whitefoot house. 3 - Whitefoot Wood slurry siding - there was a short siding here which served the slurry tip. 4 - Fiddleyard - 3-4 road traverser or cassettes? It would need to have an entrance at either end in order to connect to module No.5... 5 - St Oswald's churchyard, which is where the first photo in post #1 is. Given that this is out the other entrance to Burneside station goods yard, I've sited it the other side of the main FY - this does mean that this module would need another FY at its far end which would represent the mill complex at Burneside. I have managed to track down a suitable OS map of the area from 1911, it shows the route of the Tramway as it was then: http://maps.nls.uk/view/101105226 (you'll need to zoom in on Burneside and then you'll be able to follow the route of the Tramway) The only bit missing is the slurry siding, but I have seen it located on a 1920s version of the OS map just to the left of the house marked Whitefoot, and below the 205 marker. You can see the site clearly on Googleearth and in the street view - there is a large cleared area of the wood adjacent to the route of the road and the Tramway. Having found the OS map, I spent a productive lunch hour on Friday tracing the route on the line on Googlemaps, in the satellite view, and on the street view. The bit around Whitefoot is interesting as you can clearly see the route of the Tramway - the road climbs steeply, whilst the Tramway (now a footpath - The Dales Way) carries on the level through a cutting - you can see this from the photos below, one is an extract from a newspaper cutting which talked about the closure of the Burneside-Bowston section in 1965, and has a couple of nice photos of the Ruston out and about, firstly in Bowston village, and secondly just about to enter the cutting by Whitefoot house: Below is one of my photos from a visit to the area in 2010 - apart from being a bit more overgrown the view is still the same...just sadly minus one Ruston! Traffic wise for the layout, it will mainly be coal and pulp inwards, and the finished paper products going out. Though the newspaper article referenced above mentions that the mill at Cowan Head converted to burn oil rather than coal in the mid-1950s - so I could in theory run an oil tank or two - would the new Dapol/ex Lionheart ones be suitable? If so, which one(s) would be suitable given that they are producing different variants? Thinking about other goods inbound/outbound, this site talks about different materials used for finishing the paper products: http://mike.da2c.org/igg/rail/12-linind/papercard.htm - including China clay. Various sources also mention chlorine/bleach being used - so any suggestions for how these would arrive by rail please? I am assuming tank wagons? Or barrels in open wagons? Lastly, I was planning to use code 100 rail for the lightweight track work, which was approx 40lb per yard - would this be suitable, or would something like code 82 be better? If the latter, is there a supplier of this rail that would be suitable for use in 7mm scale? Ta muchly in advance!

Thanks Marc. Thanks decauville1126, much appreciated for the info on the Ruston. Nice to see that both locos survive, albeit neither currently working by the sounds of things. Yes have seen the photos on the CRA site, must get round to purchasing some copies at some point!

Thanks Dave. Thanks Ruston, will admit that that photo is probably one of my favourites! Haha yes I wonder where you have seen it before?! It can be ready for Mickleover in January, I'm just not committing to which year though!

Help! I seem to have had a very silly idea to build a model of part of the Burneside Tramway in 7mm scale...its not the first time either (first time round was for the 2010 challenge - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/3675-neilhbs-2010-challenge-entry-burneside-tramway/),but I think that this attempt will get a lot further than the previous one. I blame Andy Young for encouraging me to resurrect this idea - not that it took much! For those of you who aren't aware of the Tramway, here's a brief history: The Cropper’s paper business is now concentrated at Burneside, but when all three mills were in use the transport problem was solved by the construction of a narrow gauge tramway linking the sites in 1879. The tramway was replaced in 1927 (though other sites give the date as 1924) by a standard gauge line, built using rails captured from the Turks in the First World War. This railway was linked to the Windermere – Oxenholme branch line. The line was operated originally by a standard gauge Simplex petrol locomotive called ‘Rachel’, this became the spare loco when a Ruston & Hornsby 48DS arrived in 1951. The railway brought in all the raw materials, including pulp, dyes, chemicals and coal, and sent out paper products. The line was closed between Burneside and Cowan Head in 1965, but the siding to Burneside was used for coal for a few more years. (From: http://www.cumbria-industries.org.uk/a-z-of-industries/paper/burneside-paper-mill/ with a few amendments) My idea is to model a collage of various scenes from the Tramway, sort of a cameo layout I guess, from the 1950s and 1960s. Thanks to the 'Burneside Present and Past' group on Facebook I have been able to locate a fair few photos of the Tramway, including several that I hadn't seen before: Ruston passing through Burneside - it is exiting the paper mill complex in Burneside itself, and will shortly enter the goods yard at Burneside station. Simplex 'Rachel' in Burneside goods yard Simplex 'Rachel' out on the Tramway Simplex 'Rachel' at the mill complex at Bowston, from here the line continued on the last mill at Cowan Head Which is where (I think) the Ruston can be seen! I have a couple of ideas for the model, one of which is a series of modules showing various scenes along the Tramway (including some of the scenes seen in the photos above) which can be swapped around as the mood takes me, or set up all in one go (but not in the train room as there isn't enough room!). One of the scenes I would like to model is the short siding at WhiteFoot Tip Wood, which served the slurry tip, I have seen reference to an amusing incident in 1954 where the Simplex 'Rachel' ran off the end of the siding and ended up in the slurry...perhaps there could be a half submerged wagon and a couple of blokes standing around scratching their heads wondering what to do?! The other option was a micro layout, along similar lines to Jim Read's Moxley (http://www.jasread.com/micro/moxley.html) but in mirror image format, with the two locos shuffling a mixture of wagons around a couple of sidings, which would probably represent the Cowan Head end of the Tramway. It could also form one of the modules thinking about it. Loco stock would be minimal, with the Simplex (a possible candidate for a 3D print job - my local modelling group has a tame 3D print expert with his own 3D printer...) and the Ruston 48DS (more than likely one of the new Judith Edge kits - they look exquisite). I'd also like an excuse to buy and run one of the lovely new Dapol 08s, but I really don't think I could get away with it! Rolling stock wise from photos it looks like I will need a few opens, mostly sheeted, plus a few vans and a couple of coal wagons (I'm guessing by the 50s/60s most of the coal would be carried in 16T minerals?). It looks like the Tramway had a couple of dedicated internal user wagons, which I'm guessing they used for the slurry traffic, but the photos I have aren't clear enough to give details. Trackplan for the micro layout is below, size wise approx 4'7"x18" Incidentally, if anyone has any photos or information on the Tramway that they'd be willing to share please, I'd be very grateful!

Hi Pete, Thanks for that - much appreciated. If you're interested in the parts send me a PM and make me an offer - I sadly don't think I am ever going to to get around to using them - as you can probably tell from on here I've got far too many projects on the go! Cheers, Neil

Andy true that is a good point (which is probably why I'd decided to model it as having been removed.) However I do like your suggestion of having the wagon turntable on the dairy siding and then a flat crossing on the main - bit different but does mean I can put wagons in that siding then - thanks!

The Planet is looking very good sir douglas - the detailing on the frames is great!

Thanks Pete - much appreciated. Do you know if there is any further information about the project anywhere please? Thanks Marc They would - however in my head I have assumed that the wagon turntable has actually been replaced with a bit of plain track work; hence the siding is disused and somewhat overgrown. I did consider moving it to the left of the Y point, but then realised that that would mean the baseboard would need to be wider, and the space I have is somewhat limited. What I should also add, is that I envisage the track work to be buried to the railhead (or just below), which is a leftover from the lines horse worked days, so the replacement bit of track work will probably be the only visible bit on the whole layout - just to emphasise that this is a recent change (hopefully this makes sense). I have also considered moving the tramway cottage to the near side of the railway, so that it sits at the front edge of the layout and acts as a view blocker to hide the exit to the fiddle yard - perhaps even at a slightly lower level. Something to think about when I get round to sorting the baseboards out.

Thanks Knuckles, I agree shunting is great fun - nothing better than passing a couple of hours shunting a few wagons around. Hi Chris, I'm aiming for 4' radius points - good point about the LH and Y being replaced with a 3-way - should save some space so I will give that a go! Popped over to the Weston-on-Trent show today - had a great time and thanks to Jim Read for letting me have a go with Moxley - a cracking little layout that doesn't take up very much space at all. Cheers, Neil

Ta muchly Mr Young - I shall have a look

Coaches look very nice! What make are the transfers please? Need some for my coaches and they look rather good. Cheers, Neil

No progress to report really, other than I think I've actually settled on a track plan for Elsbridge Wharf. As much as I liked the one I posted a few months/pages back, it just didn't seem to fit with what I wanted from EW. A holiday to the North York Moors the week before last with a few reference books in tow meant I had plenty of inspiration to choose from, and time to sit down and work out what I actually wanted from the layout. One of the books that I kept coming back to was the Gauge 0 Guild's Small Layout Handbook No.1 - in particular the two plans by Giles Barnabe for Stratford (Waterside) on Page 45. Of the two plans included, Plan A was the one that always caught my eye, with Giles' description of it being an ex-horse drawn tramway terminus, shortly after conversion to steam power...lo and behold, this was what I was looking for! So, after a few false starts, may I present the track plan for Elsbridge (Wharf) - circa 1906 shortly after conversion to iron horse power.... KEY: 1. Lamp Hut 2. Station Building 3. Water Tower and Coaling Stage 4. Road Crossing 5. Loading Dock 6. Dairy Office 7. Chimney/Boiler House 8. St. Petroc's Dairy 9. Tramway Cottage 10. Entrance Gates to Yard 11. Ground Frame Hut and Signal 12. Stables 13. Disused Wagon Turntable and Siding 14. Warehouse 15. A.W.Dry Coal Merchants 16. Goods Shed 17. Overall Roof The layout is going to be awkward to operate, given the lack of run-round loop, but this gives me the opportunity to either use chain shunting, or the excuse to have a second locomotive in the station to assist. However I wanted something a little different, and Rule No.1 applies anyway! Layout size will be 6'6" x 2', consisting of two 3'3" x 2' boards. A third 3'3" x 2' board will form the fiddle yard (though at home this will probably need to be a fiddle stick roughly 2' in length due to the limited space in the room where it will live. So, thoughts and feelings please fellow RMWebbers!

Very nice Mr Young, very nice indeed! Neil

Ah makes more sense now! Sounds like a good concept to me and more than happy to trial it in 7mm

I have all 4 volumes

No worries thats fine with me Yeah no idea why we do either! Sounds like a good plan to me - I've never built a chassis with springing/compensation so quite interested to give it a go

Thanks Knuckles, I will have a look at what POW sides offers in 7mm scale.

Thanks Peter - I've managed to source a copy of Harry Paar's book, there are some lovely photos in there of the locos!

That's a nice looking wagon Knuckles! What transfers did you use for the lettering please? Struggling to find anything suitable at the moment, so may have to resort to designing my own at this rate.

Having seen the model in the flesh in the pub last night I can confirm it is rather nice!

Hi Knuckles, Sorry for the late reply, it's been a bit of a hectic week! I definitely want one of each please, but there is no rush to re-size them, as you've seen on the Elsbridge Wharf thread I have quite a few projects ongoing at the moment. Regarding standards etc. - I'd recommend you take a nosey at this link: http://www.gauge0guild.com/manual/01_1_Standards.pdf -this is the Gauge 0 Guild handbook on standards (page 1-1-4 is the one you want for wheel and frame standards. Bush size wise, I'd be using Slater's wheels which have a 3/16" axle - the usual thing in 7mm is to have the axle hole a few mm undersize, then the builder can ream it out to their own size and spec. I've found it easier to stick with fine scale in 7mm (32mm gauge), scale 7 was too much hassle for me given the amount of stock that I've got.

I'll stick my name down for a J1 and an E1 in 7mm please Gavin - they will look lovely on Elsbridge Wharf! Must say the J1 looks the bees knees - almost wish I'd not got rid of my 4mm stuff now...

Thanks CK - have sent you a PM I've been in contact with David Andrews re the kits for both the Fletcher Jennings and the later Vulcan Foundry built locos...sadly no plans to reintroduce at the moment, but he has sent me drawings of both - so its a start! Peter, I also meant to ask you if you had any drawings for the S&W coaching stock? Looking back at the issue of Rail Model Digest I noted you had some of the coaches and was wondering if you had any of the drawings still, or knew where I might be able to source some please?

Thanks Dave - it is greatly appreciated. Thanks marinbromoz, glad it has been useful to you! A model of STH may well appear at some point, but he won't be a Sir, he'll be plain old Mr Topham Hatt, resident engineer and loco driver of the Tidmouth, Knapford and Elsbridge Light Railway...probably hanging on for dear life to one of the coffee pot locos when I get round to building them.

I will, I will...honest guv'nor! I'm sure it would still be around then - the stationmaster will need a nice home for his chickens surely?!