Physicsman

I never spotted that; all I saw was a cat flap that appears to be a long way up the blue door and I have to admit, I did wonder why Jeff was wondering whether Mike had spotted it...

 

Jeff, you really should have a go at building your own turnouts, even if they are just PCB ones like mine. After all, if a cack-handed fool like me can do it, then you are sure to make a far better job of it. Brian Harrap and Gordon S have put up an encyclopaedic amount of info on RMWeb on how to go about it, Martin Wynne is on hand to find your way around Templot, it will give you a lot of satisfaction and will save you a fortune that you can then spend on 4F's, 5MT's, 9F's, etc. :-)

Don't tempt me Jason! Even a few years ago I wouldn't have dreamed of doing some of the stuff I now take for granted. And it's the expertise on Forums like this that encourages us all. Only 6 months ago I was still thinking of sticking with Peco code 100, now it's SMP. Hell, Andy P has almost got me thinking about weathering. And yourself, Ben Alder (Richard) and Jam (Southern Region Steam) have got my fire up for scratchbuilding. Add to that the S&C group - hell, where will I find the time?

I know - I'll retire...

Which is exactly what I'm doing in 6 weeks time! Hey, hey!!

Oh well, turnouts...umm...

Best wishes,

Jeff

Cheers Jeff I am not touching it again now. Anyway why are you reading this YOU SHOUD BE HARD AT WORK ON YOUR OWN PROJECT

OK you slave driver. My god, man, I've slaved and sweated over a hot jigsaw and drill all week, commended you on your rusty 4F and what do you give me????? Ha ha ha ha...

I just love the camaraderie in this Forum. Quite superb!

Anyway Andy, how about showing us some of your other weathered creations? And get some sleep - too many late nights and you'll be mixing up your airbrush and your weathering powders!!

All the best,

Jeff

looking good mate, cant wait to see the risers going on and then it will really take shape.

Cheers Andy. I've spent the last 3 hours looking at my trackplan, subframe plan and working out where to fit the risers and how to cut the ply baseboard. But thinking just drives me mad - I think I'll just get on AND DO!!

Probably try a few things in the coming week.

Jeff

OK, the big moment...after 5 days cutting, drilling, screwing and fixing, the subframe is completed. Now I'll have a rest and save my pennies so I can order the track next month!

On the other hand, there's the risers and the ply baseboard to start on...umm, no-brainer really!!

Attached 2 pics showing completed subframe, along with 3 more added legs. And I wonder if eagle-eyed Mike (The Stationmaster) notices anything?

Jeff

Yes, she looks a real treat, Andy! Not too over the top, but suitably grotty. Very good piece of work.

Jeff

Thanks for the info. Jason. I'm pretty sure someone will have done extensive research on ballast size - I seem to recall the Woodland Scenics catalogue used to have some info on this. Quite agree about the N gauge stuff - 00 grade looks like mini-boulders, though I have to admit I used the latter on my last layout! You learn by experience!

Your last photo looks good - nice and neat.

Re. your song comment on your blog, surely Englebert Humperdinck's Eurovision entry has to be the song of the year! Lol.

Jeff

Makes sense. Presumably a crawl way into the middle operating well. Rather than a lifting section?

Quite right, Jon. A crawl - and it's a sign of increasing age that crawling under the layout starts to become an issue. Nevermind - in a few years time I'll maybe modify the door-fiddle yard access.

Btw, as I said on your other thread, many thanks for the S&C photos. I've assembled a collection, but you can never have too many.

And congrats on your imminent 1000 posts!!

Jeff

The main question on my (and others, I'm sure) mind Mark, is what had you done to your head in your Avatar pic to deserve that bandage, or is it the crappest turban ever? Mine was taken in Les Gets a few years ago on an insanely drunk night when the bar staff kept giving us free cocktails. I call the photo 'one for the ladies'

Jason, I think the answer's simple...Either, axelcounter couldn't stand the tedium of ballasting any longer and just had to bang his head on the wall, or he is a paid-up member of the Britannia Coconut Dancers and suffered head damage during an energetic performance!

Apologies, no offence intended and very poor (!!) humour, just couldn't resist!

Btw, your ballasting looks good. I must admit, I've never strayed from the tried-and-trusted PVA method. What ballast are you using - type and grade? Though I model 00, I've concluded N gauge ballast is best for me. Woodland Scenics Grey Blend. I'll be interested in your comments.

Best wishes,

Jeff

Can I add a query? It all looks superb, but the scenic areas look very deep. How do you propose to reach the rearmost areas to work? Will you have access hatches, or a topside creeper? Hasten to say not a criticism, I'm looking forward to watching this grow.

Hi Jon,

If you have a look at post 34 you'll see a plan of the layout. I've left access areas in the corners of the room. There will be a couple of small hatches, but I've learnt from experience to avoid these where possible. Access to the fiddle yard will be from the door-side: the fiddle yard will be underneath a rising hillside.

I'm sure I'm going to make a lot of botches as things progress. Not least of which is the location and fitting of the risers on which the baseboard will sit. The board itself will be 25ish cm above the subframe - I'm trying to avoid problems that beset my last layout where I had poor access to fitting stuff like point motors under the baseboard.

But I love problem-solving, and this project is like one giant jigsaw puzzle. At the moment it's gone exactly to plan, but I can't see that continuing...!

Cheers,

Jeff

Amazing structure Jeff, but as you say, it has to last and NOTwarp, at the rate you are going you will be laying track next week. P.S I cant sleep tonight as I am planning another project.

Yes, I'm staggered - look at the time! 3 in the morning! I often find my brain gets hyperactive and doesn't want to shut down at night - normally, as you said, when something new and exciting is in the offing. Have you still got all your previous layouts, and, if so, where do you store them!

The frame is just about done and I'm very pleased with it. It is only a base for what goes above and things will now grind to a halt as I've got to buy all the track...and that's budgeted for the end of July. So you'll have to be patient for further progress!

All the best,

Jeff

Evening all.

Just one more photo to add to previous, though it's been a very busy afternoon - sorting out 3.6m planks of wood and marking-up for some of the risers.

Fitted the opposite "angle piece" - only 3 more short sections to fit now. Enclosed photo for continuity...

Jeff

Hi Andy,

Whats this? Posting at 05.46? Lol!!

Anyway, to the point... the 4F looks good, but you could possibly get away with even more "grot" - though weathering is a matter of personal taste. I suppose one problem is that if the loco is filthy, the rolling stock should be too, and that makes for a lot of work.

Your 4F is a beauty and, though I prefer her weathered, she'd look good whatever you do to her!

Cheers,

Jeff

A lot of truth in that ... but ... My father was a skilled carpenter and joiner and about 52 years ago built the baseboard structure for my attic layout - in 2x1 with half-lapped joints, very accurate half-lapped joints in his case and all nice and tight. When, 7 years ago, we dismantled the layout prior to demolishing the bungalow in which it resided the joints simply would not knock apart in many cases and regrettably we finished up splitting timber - and lost the ability to re-use it in the future - and a lot of it wasn't even any good for firewood.

 

So like you I do worry about the strength of half-lap joints, even in 4"x2", but if they are very well made they seem to turn out pretty solid and they were easily capable of taking my then weight. But the 'trick' also depends, I think, on the size of the rectangles formed by the structure and possibly from using a 'solid' top which helps to keep them tight. Another thing is gluing the joints - using a good quality pva white wood glue produces a joint which is normally stronger than the wood around it and which should help prevent splitting (although I've an idea that Jeff might not be gluing his half-lap joints?).

Afternoon Mike,

I've never glued the joints - though they are screwed together. Ironic really, but the reason for this has been in case I want to dis-assemble the structure - which in this case, I don't!

Anyway, each to his own. If any problems arise I will have to take remedial action!

Cheers,

Jeff

This morning's update...

Nearly built the subframe now! Another day, then I can think about the "riser" positions for the baseboard itself. The top of the subframe corresponds to the "water level" datum at the foot of the viaduct (see plan). So the baseboard top will be about 23cm higher than the subframe, putting it 103cm from the floor. For a little fellow like me (168cm or 5'6" in old-fashioned currency) that's ok.

Attached pictures of more wood. No wonder I'm dreaming about the stuff!

Jeff

Hi Larry,

You may be right about the joints, but I find it much easier to securely interlock all the sections this way. All interconnections are screwed together and the structure has tremendous rigidity. So much so that when I built my old layout - using 2" x 2" - I climbed on top of the baseboard and jumped up and down. Aside from normal flexure, no problems. The present structure is considerably more heavy-duty than the last. Totally over the top, but - what the hell - you only build it once and then it just does its job.

By the way, many thanks for your input on the circuit plan earlier in the year.

Best wishes,

Jeff

Question! you say you have no natural light but what is that on the right in post 85? In my den 9 ft x 7 ft I have a pair of 8 ft florecents. Also I DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE TWO 5.46 IN A DAY, ha ha

I see what you mean! I usually close the side door to the "bunker" (not a garage any more!), but on that occasion I'd left it open. Had it closed this morning, mind, as it's absolutely p*****g down here.

05.46 ... umm ... I'm an insomniac. Only problem is I want to start drilling and cutting at that time, but I think the neighbours might complain!

Cheers,

Jeff

That looks like a nice sturdy base to work from Jeff!

I don't think that'll warp in a while, or ever, come to think of it.

Glad to see you are making a lot of progress, I can't wait to get to the baseboard stage on The Old Road - only then will the real size of the layout become apparent I think.

I guess I need to put a lot of effort into designing, let alone making my boards given that they are to be portable and therefore must be as light a possible in order to be transported easily.

 

Looking good, I can't wait to see a few full length trains snaking their way around this big layout - at this rate you'll be able to do that in no time!

Jam

 

Edit:

 

Eugh, sounds like the kind of maths calculations I have to work out for materials in my degree. Bending moments, beams and deflections... what fun, not!

Morning Jam,

You are quite right about the perception of layout size. When the room was empty it didn't look too big. Now I've put some framing in place, the layout area looks huge!! Not that I'm complaining!

As for bending and calculations - I get enough of them in my job, so I've taken a typical engineering approach to my structural work. "Think of what is adequate, double it, add another 50% and that should be ok!!"

Hope your "pub studies" are going well. Lol!

Jeff

OK Andy, specially for you...the current state of play. It might make sense if you compare it to the plan in post 79, above.

No sign of any trains yet (lol) but we'll get there in the end!

Jeff

Good pics Jeff, Looks like you have a nice bright room, my den has no windows as it was originally the garrage and I lost half its length, now just one small extractor for when I do the smelly stuff but as the door goes into the hall I still get complaints from SWMBO. Keep the pics coming as it looks as though you will have some good contors. All the best Andy.

Hi Andy,

I've got no windows either, but the room is quite large at 16' x 12' and there is 800 Watts of lighting available - though I don't have it all on for very long as it gets too warm.

Glad you like the photos - I sometimes wonder whether I'm boring everyone to death!! I will post another couple of pics shortly - I have to take them first!

Cheers,

Jeff

Hi Ian,

 

if you weren't so far away, I'd get you round to ballast for me

 

Hi Jeff,

 

to be honest, the ballasting is killing me as I have a nasty chill / cold (not helped by the foul stench of Copydex) and leaning over the baseboard is giving my back loads of gyp.

 

The Britannia Coconut Dancers (or Coconutters), from what I can tell, are like a hardcore version of Morris Dancers and from photos, my description of them as transvestite Black & White Minstrels isn't too far off the mark looks wise, but I've been warned to not call them that

 

http://www.coconutters.co.uk/

 

Wonder if Langley do a 4mm version of them?

Blimey! Well, they say you learn something new every day... I'm old enough to remember the B&W minstrels. They were rather good at the time. Bacup must be quite a cosmopolitan place if you have such interesting characters as those!!

Langley seem to have almost anything you like. Maybe you could get some of their country yokels and "paint them suitably". They'd look good waiting for a train on one of your platforms!!

Cheers,

Jeff

Hey, hey...we have legs (following the KISS principle!)...

I've just bought 34 kg! I actually enjoy ballasting because I do it last - somewhere on here it was suggested that ballasting was done that way so that the blend between scenery and track was somehow easier.

My god - someone who actually enjoys ballasting!! You feeling ok, Ian?!

Jason, first look at Bacup for a while. The platform canopy is superb and the ballasting has gone well. May seem a daft question, but just who are the Britannia Coconut Dancers? I've been meaning to ask for weeks!!

Best wishes,

Jeff

Morning John, nice to hear from you again. I'm enjoying actually being able to start on something directly related to the layout. I loved converting the garage, but I've been itching to start on the "underbelly" of the layout for months!!

Enclosed - 2 more pics, taken an hour ago. Hair cut, then it's into the garage to fit some legs...

Best wishes,

Jeff

Hi Jeff, I have the Bachmann Brassworks Pannier, Acme Kits Ivatt 2-6-2 tank and a couple of very old locos as you see above. I am starting to get a OO collection ready to run on Loch Leven at GCR Nottingham, in August and just bought a Bachmann Jubilee Drake from Hattons SILLY deal £138 CHIP FITTED for just £56, I could not miss that one, plus I have a Bachmann Pannier, 3MT, Ivatt 4, Hornby Std 4, Black 5, West County Westward Ho, my 8f which I have fitted a Howes Sound unit to.

Quite agree. I'd made my mind up to get one of these when their site went down and still hasn't fully recovered!

Thanks for the comments on my thread. The first job tomorrow morning (I'm on holiday) is to fit the first 4 legs under my frame.

The Forum is an inspirational place and I love watching your shunting layouts. So much attention to detail. Long may it continue.

Jeff

Construction looks good Jeff, Legs can be a pain but you do need them, more legs more strength.

Thanks Andy. First 4 legs will be fitted tomorrow morning. The subframe isn't the most photogenic part of a layout, but I'm a great believer in the principle "if you are going to build it, build it as well as you can!"

The actual baseboards will sit 25cm above the subframe on a set of risers. Hopefully this will give me lots of scenic possibilities.

Jeff