southern42

Hi Jamie, I'm delighted you like the track plan but I can't claim much credit for it as it's based on the 1922 track plan on page 60 of 'An historical survey of Great Western Sheds' by E. Lyons. I've tried drawing various versions though without too much success I have reduced the shed to 3 roads instead of 6 and the branchline to a single road instead of two. I wanted to keep the passing loop at the coal stage and a run round to the turntable for the ash bin. I'm not sure if there is room for the siding to the sand house and I need to get in a boiler house. I've tried to keep to the plan up to the footbridge where the line then joins the track to the mainline which I do not intend to model - its electrified now. That came as a bit of a shock to the system when all that happened; I had always associated overheads with Euston, and the Southern I travelled on for three years back in the 70s was third rail, much less intrusive in the landscape. ...and while I've been checking up on the published track plan, I've just noticed a 'flaw' in mine. A slight modification might give the TT a little bit more room see below: Comments appreciated

Hi Leon, One of the things I have learnt wandering around exhibitions is how many layouts include locos, coaches, places, buildings, streets, and businesses etc that are named after people they know and it seems to work very well. Good luck with finding a name.

Thank you for your comments. I hope to improve on the figures for the 'Fab Four': I've got my eyes on some and hope to send off for them soon, Changing to GWS No. 190 - nothing would delight me more. I'll have to put Didcot on the calendar for a visit next year. The more I know about it the more tempting it becomes. When I first looked at it with a view to modelling GWR, I was amazed at how much there is of it - certainly not for an 8x2 (ft). I can't wait to see Steam Railmotor No. 93 and Autotrailer No. 92. There are some superb views of Nos. 98 and 186 being shunted at Southall in 'GWR Engine Sheds London Division '. The photo on page 134 with the Brentford branch motor train is really helpful and clearly shows the entry tracks to the shed and branchline, the structure of the steps down from the footbridge, the water softener tower and right through the 'car shed', the engine shed in the distance almost invisible in a veil of loco smoke - though I think that last bit will stretch my modelling skills (from a non smoker's point of view, anyway) - a photo edit job, then, when it's finished. Polly

Thank you for your comments. I agree about the turntable and if I shorten the shed to give more space I may have to forego the external inspection pits on the shorter roads. I hadn't thought of your suggestion though I have been trying it out on the left side of the baseboard but not very successfully. As you say, it's easy to lose the 'taste of Southall'. Another alternative is to have the shed as fiddle yard with the locos for the turntable disappearing behind the backscene, the entrance hidden by the buildings in the ash disposal area. This would be ashame because Southall had some 9Fs (including 92240 on the Bluebell Line, and, yes, I lwould love to have this one) and wouldn't one of these look grand being turned? However, it wouldn't be a problem in Railway Centre terms because Southall lost its turntable, of course, and, presumably, locos go off to a wye somewhere. I'll post some updates when I've got the baseboard to size. Thanks for everyone's interest and comments are most welcome. It will be all the better for it.

Hi All, Here's my first attempt at usng AnyRail. In this sort of plan a fiddleyard will need to be added on the left. The baseboard is by Brilliant Baseboards. I am just waiting for another section to arrive in the post to make up an 8ft x 2ft board. I can then start puttng some track out to see how it looks before making any changes or taking photos. The plan is for the branchline to disappear under a road or canal on the righthand end and the siding to take a railmotor shed. The top track is the coaling ramp. The shed will consist of a 3 road shed and single road repair shop. I don't know whether I'll be able to fit in a factory siding in this scheme (it will come in from the left below the branchline). Your comments are most welcome.

Hi Jamie and Peter My, you two have been busy. Looking forward to our next visit to see it in person but for now I'll have to be happy with my first attempt track plan on AnyRail for Great West Road. I'll try and post it up for comment tomorrow. Bed now Polly

I knew I should've gone to speck savours 8)

Thanks for your kind comments. Ray took the photo after I'd sorted out some figures, painted one of them (twice, because it looked awful in the first photo), and managed to get them to stay on the loco without falling off. The shot was carefully planned to avoid getting corners of buildings in the picture and to hide the coupling device which is still on it (but not for long).. After the rubbishy ones I took , Ray's photo is a gem. EDIT Let me explain "rubbishy ones". These I should really call "tests". They were taken with a handheld Canon 14x (careful not to say 14xx) using flash. The initial photos showed the loco badly placed in the tunnel revealing the squared off dead-end of the backscene - I will have to get the paints out and disguise the "exit" a bit better - and highlighted my quick paint job on one of the figures. I used acrylics but it had gone rather streaky. A second go only improved it slightly so I got out my soft pastels and brushed on black (which is really a shade of dark grey) and finished off with a touch of light grey and light blue. This eventually blended the figure in with the two Springside workers. The flash produced areas of dark shadow which destroyed the atmosphere. The final shot was taken on a tripod, no flash but the scene is lit with the lighting board repositioned more to the front than usual. I imported the image into Picture Manager, slightly cropped the lefthand edge and selected "black and white". Job done. I hope you like. The horse is called Funda and belonged to my sister.

Caught on camera GWR 1466 stops at Avago Sidings for photo shoot on its way to Great West Road Ray found the Dapol 14xx, sold with Didcot autocoach 187 (Airfix), yesterday at the Corris Exhibition (http://www.rmweb.co....27th-of-august/) in Mid Wales. I couldn't resist... Figures are Springside, Hornby and Modelscene. Autocoach 187 is not on any preservation list that I know of. Out of interest, can anyone fill me in on a little bit of its history? Was it ever in the West London area?

Hi Peter Just noticed I'm up to 31 posts [EDIT 32 with this one]. Is this enough to add me to your list of friends yet ? Polly

Looking good, Peter, and even better in the flesh. I like the abbey at the far right hand end; it gives the layout a good solid 'full stop' when viewed from the other end - something to prevent the eyes straying off the layout. Brilliant. The photos don't quite do it justice - people will really have to come and see it when it's up and running at exhibition to fully appreciate it, which I hope won't be too long. I've just been on wikipedia - you mentioned having a station terminus. Lochawe, I noticed, had a large luxury hotel as well as a station. Now, there's an excuse for a substantial building at the left hand end if you want one and some extra First Class coaches on the trains not forgetting Pullman dining on the railtour. Apologies for my imagination rambling off again - haven't quite got the Fellsman tour on the Settle and Carlisle out of the system yet See you again soon. Polly

Get out the sketch pad and become the next railway artist?

I though it was 16 feet not an inch...

Hi Castle and Devondynosoar, Thanks for your comments. First off, there's a spot on the footbridge reserved for the lads What a brilliant idea. Thanks. Further thoughts on this: when the time comes, if you have lookalike figures you can send me I’ll place them in position, or give me code numbers so that I can get them and paint up as appropriate, if necessary. You’ve also got me thinking of starting a Personnel List [(EDIT) Roll of Honour]: only figures allowed with connection to real people. Autocoach is waiting for the 14xx to come off the production line to get the ball (wheels) rolling... It won't be long...then the fireman can sound the whistle as they go under the bridge. But back to the present. I like the idea of using the shed as part of the fiddle yard. Another option is running the branchline down to a fiddleyard below shed level to imitate the downhill run on the real thing. At the left hand end, I’m looking at the possibility of a scenic sector plate – an iron bridge with AEC hoarding (and road under with AEC bus with Grandad ‘Ted’ at the wheel off to Hanwell garage with AEC foreman Charlie off to his night shift) to move shed and branchline stock to a fiddleyard behind the coal ramp/backscene. Ideas, drawings and banter are one thing. Next step is to mock them up on the baseboard and see what happens. The Lyons book is really useful but Hawkins is very informative if you want to know more about Southall (40 pages) or other London Division shed. On the footplate: duly added to the shopping list . Polly

No problem. I've had a quick flick through. There's a chapter on Old Oak Common which has a few paragraphs at the end on Ranelagh Bridge plus a few photos.

Just arrived - a copy of Great Western Railway Engine Sheds, London Division by Chris Hawkins and George Reeve. Oh, boy! What a read that’s going to be - and that's just the chapter on Southall. There are some excellent photos and technical drawings to help the look-a-like along. What have I let myself in for? The two track diagrams, 1904 and 1957, are splendidly detailed. The accompanying paragraphs outline procedures. For those who do not have the book and are interested, here is the paragraph for the diagram I will be referring to: Southall in 1904. Normal procedure was for engines to arrive at the station end, often crossing over the mainline in pairs or threes, coming in from the various yards. Engines approached the turntable to the right of the ash bin, where fires were thrown out, proceeded to the turntable, turned if necessary and moved forward to have the smokebox dealt with. They would then move up the yard, coal and reverse back into the shed. This has clarified things but it does means I will need to create a loop to/from the turntable to be authentic; and ‘coming in from various yards’ sounds useful and, hopefully, means that I won’t have to renumber all my locos though my layout won’t be too exact, rather I intend to give an overall impression of the shed and the Southall area but more on that when the time comes.

In my teens, I used to paint (pictures) using PVA paints. The amazing thing with these is that when they are diluted and painted one colour on top of another the colours shine through each other. I've not had an oppportunity to use them on a model railway yet, though I'm sure it won't be too long before I go and buy some to try, maybe for wet areas like the base of water columsn Love your goods depot, StuartM. Will have to pop back and watch progress.

Here are a couple of initial sketches: #1 a rough idea of the Southall diagram; #2 with a reversal to create a branchline terminus with station entrance at the front (purely fictitious but to create operational variety perhaps). The Maypole Margarine factory originally on this side of the track had its own canal dock. This suggested having a canal spur on the end instead of another footbridge. Before finalising, I will be looking closer at the diagrams and photos and see what others advise.

Still working on the track plan but will upload a sketch later. Polly I love the Cuneo, very atmospheric. Someone gave me a Cuneo calendar in the late 70s. Wonderful! There is a steam railmotor standing in front of the engine shed on the 1912 picture of the Maypole Margarine Factory on the railmotor93 website. http://www.railmotor93.org/shed/pictures/southall_01.html I am using this photo for the track layout in conjunction with the diagram in the book on GWR sheds. Many thanks for that information, something I haven't thought about.. Hubby has just informed me that we have a bargain basement Hornby 08 D3986 late BR - close enough for a renumber? I can also nick his Class 22 (D 6323) from his Southern layout. Thanks for the tips on the Bachmann Hall class - another job for 'him' to do and your offer of help/advice. I think I'm going to need it so will be in touch before too long. Polly

Hi all, I am a newish rmweb member and have enjoyed many of your wonderful threads but I’ve yet to post anything about my proposed layout. So here goes. At the Wigan Show 2010, I received some very generous advice on the operation of a GWR shed from a well known railway lover and, at last, I am in a position to say that I have made a little progress. I now have a 6ft x 2ft baseboard on which to build a GWR layout with a fiddle yard added at one or both ends but where to start?. The initial inspiration came from Salisbury, the shed building described as a smaller version of Southall. Southall shed was up the track from my home station of Hayes and Harlington. On reading about Southall, I liked the description: ‘squeezed in’ between the mainline and the branchline. On a small baseboard it would, undoubtedly, be a bit of a squeeze. Among the persuasive factors for a Hayes-Southall-Brentford Dock type location are the freight possibilities connected with well known industries such as EMI (which had its own small shunting engine), Nestlé (coffee and chocolate), Walls (sausages), Callard and Bowsers (sweeties), Quaker Oats, Woolf’s rubber factory, AEC (which made buses and railway engines and had its own 4 wheel diesel shunter, now preserved), Southall Gas Works and its neighbouring plant creosoting wooden sleepers. The section of the Great West Road known as the Golden Mile was once home to many household names such as Firestone tyres (with sidings off the Brentford branchline), Gillette, and Smith’s Potato Crisps. So there we have it – the things (and the smells in the air!) that fill my childhood memory. There is also plenty of temptation: Southall Shed is now a railway preservation centre and an operational base for mainline-registered steam locomotives. Yes, you’ve guessed it – sabotage the layout to let off steam with our assortment of ‘preserved’ locos – you know the ones, those your husband rushes out to buy you for Christmas when you mention building a model railway – Flying Scotsman, Mallard, Duchess of Hamilton and, of course, the new rebuilds such as Tornado. So, how far have I got? I have a few GWR/BR(W) tank engines and autocoach, Model Rail’s Sentinel No. 13, a City, Castle and Hall class (if it can be made to run smoothly) and a couple of wagons. Also, I am charmed by the AEC railcar (with new RTR versions in the offing, it’s a must) and the Southall/Depot class 121 that I picked up at the Porthmadog Show 2012. I am also on the lookout for stock in keeping with the prototype which can be added later if all goes to plan. The Plan I have looked at Southall track plans of GWR and BR periods and have decided to condense the GWR plan. Currently, I am testing this out in AnyRail. I will report back when I have something to show. Thank you for your interest and please feel welcome to add any comments. Edit 10 11 2014 The beginnings of an INDEX PAGE 20 Some track plan ideas WD 40488 pic and length compared with 9F and West Country 60163 Tornado in Brunswick green Class 33 Southall on the Fawley - Denham oil tanks PAGE 21 Links to pics of 81C with Derby Suburban DMU Article on 6106 in Great Western Echo Clun Castle and Spitfire Weathering Warley wagon 2013 Acquire DVD Old Oak Common & the Great Western Order IK Brunel PAGE 22 Video Britihs Railways Steam 1960s Paddington-Southall Mr Brunel arrives! Blue 08 as donor for 08780 Fred, Jeremy Hosking's Class 08 shunter at Southall & Link to pic. Pics of Didcot's Once in a Blue Moon and coaling tubs Pics at Llangollen Railway and Severn Valley Railway PAGE 23 GWR shovels and right handed drivers 71000 Duke of Gloucester and 4484 Bittern line up Bittern model - manifold isolation valves painter RED Link to 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley at 81C 1965 1965 Brentford Branch Line - 9773 + 6106 on Thames Valley Tour Pics Llangollen Railway PAGE 24 Track plan suggestion - merge with Weymouth shed Video 6233 Duchess of Sutherland showing train movement from mainline to relief platform and shed 94xx Wills Finecast unfinished kit / 8750 chassis Hornby 4073 Caerphilly Castle donor for 4079 Pendennis Castle Pic 4079 Pendennis Castle ready for 1965 Railtour BR shed building mock-up 6869 Resolven Grange PAGE 25 Video Brentford Branch Line, EWS 66248 “Vale of Glamorgan;” Yeoman JHA Bogie Aggregrate Hoppers; JGA Hoppers; Link to Pic of Angerstein Wharf-Brentford run Pics: Didcot 3650 Birthday; 4079 Pendennis Castle; Pics Mid Hants and Swanage; SVR's 1501 Pics WC 34016 Bodmin Shed codes PAGE 26 Pics BoB Sir Winston Churchill Mid Hants, Llangollen: 5952 Cogan Hall , 2859 Reference to Hurlford Shed and St Marnock Shed Pics Didcot and Ropley sheds Video WCRC 57314 Southall 4575 bought as donor for 5531 PAGE 27 "GWR on the tender in Reading station early 60s" Pics Butterley 2014 including LMS brake van 14xx eary livery 1960s Southall railcar No. W24W crimson and cream 'City of Truro' at Southall Shed 1960 Arrival of model WCRC Black 5 No. 44932 and video 11 March 2012 at Southall Crossrail redevelopment plans for Southall, pics original Southall and Hanwell platform buildings. PAGE 28 Link to Video 4492 Dominion of New Zealand livery heading Great Britain IV Trainspotting and NRM exhibition Llangollen Railway's Along Western Lines Gala Weekend Arrival of: R.K. Kirkland, The Great Western & Brentford Railway Pic and weathering ideas Black 5 44932 Arrival of: Great Western Docks and Marine Pics Barrow Hill 2014 PAGE 29 Pics from Barrow Hill and Hazel Grove 2014 8750 #9791 and goods from Brentford - wagons identified. PAGE 30 Parkside kits; wagons; GWR "croc," etc. 1961 timing of No. 9791 headed goods train No. 6106 on Thames Valley Tour; signal on platform Track layout and signalling changes : literature : branch platform; Southall East Junction; Coke Road; etc. Warley 2014 photos Weathering Cleckheaton tar wagon Steam railmotors available via pre-order from Kernow PAGE 31 Weathering tar wagon continued 4464 Bittern London to York tour 4 December 2014 Photos at National Railway Museum including Duchess of Hamilton, City of Truro (plus video), 6000 King George V, workshop views of 4472 Flying Scotsman and Trainspotting exhibition Exchange of Christmas greetings Parts to build water tender for Bittern Duchess of Sutherland with support coach announced plus Video at Southall in the dark 2014 Derailment of ex-GWR English Electric 350hp shunter (numbered 15104 in Model Rail) at Southall PAGE 32 Derailment of ex-GWR English Electric 350hp shunter at Southall, identified as No. 15100, tho only one of its class GWR Goods Wagons and Class 153 New Year greetings Flying Scotsman King's Cross 2014 and 4472 Southall 1965 Flashback to 34016 Bodmin at the Mid Hants railway Wagons for 1961 goods train Charringtons coal drop at Brentford Town (Goods) Pre-view Steam Steel and Stars IV at Llangollen PAGE 33 On the buses: Southall, station bridge, 105, 120, 232/232A; Southall, Uxbridge Road, and the Dalek invasion of the Routemaster, 207/207A PAGE 34 Spring points Track changes: pre 1961; 1968; 1977; 1983; 2012 (Youtube "The Conrete Cow" 2012 part 5) Merry Christmas and Happy New Year (2016) Railway Track Diagrams Book 3 Western - Track plans and 2885 at Southall. PAGE 35 Track plans; Siting of oil tanks; Southall turntable Youtube: 60163 70000 4492 (plus 2 support coaches). Runround and tender first running. Youtube: 60163,70000,4492. 20th Oct.2011 Southall PAGE 36 Track plans showing different shed and turntable sizes; and train movements 1961 & 2011 WTT Brentford branch; 2011 arrival & departures of stone trains and steam Mainline sidings v Preservation yard Youtube: British Railways Steam 1960's Paddington-Southall MPD Youtube: Southall - Brentford Town Branch, stone trains 16/02/12 & 24/02/2012 PAGE 37 Some fictitious names; 59001; platform signals; route maps Rules and Regs & local instructions for operating GWRd - yard and branch line Multiple aspect signalling 1968 instead of Southall signal boxes Youtube: 66170 + ex-RMC JGAs Angerstein to Brentford Youtube: 66037 + JHAs on cripple run Southall yard to Didcot yard Link to photo A4 Gresley + Hymek at Southall List of BR publications; loco lamp position; tokens and lineside apparatus

And really useful - the pipe between the double doors hides the seam that runs down between the two pieces of wall. Great to see your comments, Jamie.. Ray is talking about adding some LED lights in the apartments and some street lamps after our discussion on Saturday. Also looking at the possibility of making a lighting unit for the layout for exhibition. On the side - watched Foxcote Manor in operation at Llangollen yesterday and picked up some more modelling ideas...and the weather, at times, was glorious Polly

Knight’s Dragon Moor (nights drag on more), Knightley Fort (as in †three night shifts...plenty of th[f]inking time†#20) Knighton Highway, Knight upon Hawes, Knights End, Knights Castle A bit of fun... Hope you find a name soon - it'll add that essential ingredient to its character. Watching the thread with interest: we've started a similar thing in the spare room.

Hi Jamie, Yes, it's the weekend of 7th - 8th July. Hope Peter doesn't mind me stepping in here but Ray said I need to up my posts so that Peter can add me as a 'friend'. It appears I haven't submitted the required number yet. See you soon. Polly

And who'd have believed that a chance remark from a local trader led us to Llanberis in 2010 where this layout was exhibited only 2 months after my husband gave me my first loco, a Flying Scotsman ( how original)* for Christmas and now to be co-operating Porth Eithin at Hartlepool next weekend? * as noted in the Editorial in Model Rail June 2012

Will your monks be producing honey, perfume and a bit of the distilled stuff, then? No doubt, they'd be relying on the new extension to bring in lots of customers