PGH

Overton-on-Dee Station - view towards Wrexham Overton-on-Dee from the overbridge south of the station Trench Halt - view towards Wrexham Lattice girder and timber trestle viaduct between Overton-on-Dee and Ellesmere, apparently only over a field but in fact this was where the line crossed Liverpool Corporation's Vyrnwy Acqueduct. 1432 passing, evidently at great speed ! 3208 and 3770 at Ellesmere Station. 3770 having probably worked down from Wrexham and just coupled behind 3208 on a Whitchurch to Oswestry freight train for return to Oswestry Shed. 1432 at Ellesmere just arrived from Wrexham 1432 having crossed to the other platform ready for departure to Wrexham with 46511 on Whitchurch train at Ellesmere [ 7812 on Whitchurch train at Ellesmere Ellesmere station from the overbridge - view towards Oswestry Ground signal at Ellesmere Station

Sesswick Halt - view towards Wrexham Pickhill Halt - view towards Ellesmere. The siding serving Cadbury's creamery branches off beyond the overbridge The line's major engineering work, the Dee Bridge with 1458 on a Wrexham train Makers plate on the Dee Bridge Bangor-on-Dee Station - view towards Wrexham Bangor-on-Dee station building Bangor-on-Dee signal box 1458 leaving Bangor-on Dee on an Ellesmere train Cloy Halt - view towards Wrexham

The title of this topic might be rather misleading and might imply that I've spent over 50 years photographing on British Railways (as in the nationalised rail system not the railways of Britain as a whole), whereas in fact most of this time has been spent off BR on industrial and narrow gauge. However the involvement with BR over this period has covered perhaps some of the more varied and remote parts of the system mainly in the North Wales, Mid Wales and Welsh Border Areas, and I thought the results might be of interest to RMweb members. Some of the earliest years of my railway enthusiast/modeller 'career' were spent exploring BR branch lines and for a brief period in the early 1960s I was afflicted with the then fairly common railway modellers condition of "modelling a GWR branch line in 00 gauge", until I found there were more interesting things to model in more suitable scales. However, many of the photos taken on BR at that time had that in mind and covered general views, station buildings, signal boxes, signals, etc. This had the advantage, bearing in mind my limited photographic skills in those early years, that the infrastructure is usually static, anything moving (like trains for example) was invariably blurred. All the images are scanned from my own negatives or slides and not merely 'trawled' from the net. Some require a certain amount of photo editing to make the initial rather mediocre image more suitable for public viewing, so this topic starts as a 'toe in the water' as it were to see if there is enough interest in the subject to justify the time and effort spent. All images posted here are my copyright and should not be published or posted elsewhere without my approval. So, to begin, I will start with the Wrexham to Ellesmere line, where several visits were made in 1962 prior to its official closure on 10th September of that year. Some photos were taken on the last day of service 8th September when the normal one coach auto train had been increased to two coaches. Photos are posted working south from Wrexham to Ellesmere. 1432 at Wrexham Central with a Wrexham-Bidston line DMU in one of the bay platforms behind 1432 at Wrexham Central on the 11.55am train to Ellesmere Train from Ellesmere arriving at Wrexham Central over the roof tops, with St.Giles Church in the background Cambrian signal near Marchwiel Marchwiel Signal Box Marchwiel Station - view towards Wrexham 1458 at Marchwiel on an Ellesmere train 3789 arrived at Marchwiel from the Wrexham direction with a brakevan, collected several empty mineral wagons and then…… departed in the direction of Ellesmere

The article appeared in three parts, Part 2 was in the Oct/Nov 1991 issue so I would assume that the other two were in the preceding and following issues. I believe the Peco kit is based on Diag. 1/102 and, according to the article, some were built with fabricated doors instead of pressed steel, but I think they would all have originally had bottom doors.

KATHARINE was built by Manning Wardle in 1914 for the Bridgewater Collieries system, one of only three industrial 0-8-0 tank locos used in the UK. The other two were built by Nasmyth Wilson for the neighbouring Gin Pit system, the first in 1910 so KATHARINE might have been the result of 'keeping up with the neighbours'. However apart from both being side tanks the two designs were completely different, the Gin Pit locos being neat and compact with outside cylinders and valve gear whereas from new KATHARINE was an ungainly looking machine with high mounted boiler and tanks, and inside cylinders. As built the side tanks extended from the upper cab opening to the front of the smokebox and the tops were nearly level with the top of the boiler, hence the very high cab front spectacles. At the front they were cut away at the bottom with no footplate below, so the driver could just walk under the tank and lean over the frames to oil the inside motion. This top heavy design no doubt contributed to the loco's tendency to roll from side to side at anything above the lowest speed and may have contributed to the derailment in which it landed on its side in a field, requiring the loan of a LMS breakdown crane to recover it. After this incident it was rebuilt with new lower side tanks and this is the form the model represents. It was scrapped in October 1945 shortly after the arrival of the first austerity 0-6-0STs at Walkden. KATHARINE was the subject of an article and drawings in the June 1976 Railway Modeller, and on my 'like to do' list, but some way down. Then at a Gauge O Guild convention I was surprised to see a pilot model on a kit manufacturers stand with a note asking for further information. I was able to provide some additional details including a copy of the original works drawing and in return was offered a kit at a discount, a somewhat dubious favour as it turned out although it did result in the model being built. The chassis was constructed first using the chassis etch from the kit, modified to take Slaters sprung axleboxes. The wheels are by Alan Gibson with white metal centres and two part axles joined with a taper pin. Most of the other chassis details are from scratch including the coupling rods machined from mild steel. Motor and gearbox are Portescap RG7 and spring pick-ups by Slaters. When it came to the body I actually used very little of the kit. To be fair the kit does produce a reasonably fair although not totally accurate representation of the prototype. One major compromise is to enable the tanks to be located by tabs and slots on the footplate they were moved inward instead of sitting where they should be on the edge of the footplate. This also resulted in the cab being narrower than it should be. In the end I think the only parts from the kit used in the body were the boiler tube - with a strip spliced in the bottom otherwise it would have been too small diameter - the footplate edging and the dome casting. Apart from some of the boiler fittings from other sources, handrail knobs, lubricators, buffer stocks (Slaters), couplings and etched plates the rest was built from scratch. The footplate and boiler unit complete. The body is built in sections, painted separately then bolted together. The completed chassis. The motor/gearbox is anchored by a torque arm to a frame stretcher, the bent strip above the motor merely carries the fuse. The valves are sited above the cylinders, with the valve rods actuated by rocking arms and driven by eccentrics on the second axle. The underside view showing the eccentrics connected to the bottom ends of the rocking arms. The slidebars are included (in red) but without the crossheads. The coupling hooks are anchored to the end frame spacers rather than the buffer beams. Although the moving valve rods are just about visible, in practice they are hardly noticed when the loco is operating. Like the prototype the loose three link couplings are carried on the hook itself rather than through the hole. The lubricator drives caused some head scratching ! The loco is painted in Manchester Collieries livery with the red lining expertly carried out again by Larry (Coachmann).

No Arthur, it definitely wasn't that 'w' word, I was expecting howls of disapproval from those who think industrials should be covered in a layer of filth

When I started this layout there were two main aims, first to construct a layout that could be operated similar to the prototype and second to build models of locomotives which operated at Lancashire Collieries with particular emphasis on the system operating from Walkden Yard. At that time the latter meant scratch building, as the availability of kits for industrial locos in O Gauge was many years away in the future. The first aim is far from complete and the second hasn't really got very far, with only two Walkden locomotives completed, although there are more than enough locomotives to operate the layout. FRANCIS was one of a series of ten 'Victory' class locomotives constructed by Kerr Stuart in 1917 for the War Office, Inland Waterways & Docks. After the war they were sold to a variety of concerns, KS 3068 being purchased by Bridgewater Collieries for use on the Walkden Colliery system where it was named FRANCIS, replacing a smaller Manning Wardle 'K' Class 0-6-0ST of the same name sold at about the same time. The name originates from Francis Egerton, Third Duke of Bridgewater, otherwise known as the 'Canal Duke' who developed the collieries in the 18th Century and instigated the construction of the Bridgewater Canal. Under the NCB FRANCIS was based at Astley Green Colliery, returning to Walkden Yard on occasions for repair including a period of nearly two years in 1950-52 waiting for a new boiler from Hunslet. In 1966 it was fitted with a Giesl ejector and the livery changed from black to red. Following the closure of Mosley Common Colliery, the largest on the system, in February 1968 the reduction in traffic released newer austerity locos which replaced the older locos at Astley Green and they, including FRANCIS, were withdrawn and scrapped at Walkden Yard later that year. An article and drawings of the Kerr Stuart Victory class locos by Don Townsley appeared in the Railway Modeller for September 1966, and since then kits are or have been available in 4mm and 7mm scales. My version is however scratch built apart from motor, gears, couplings, handrail knobs and etched plates. Nearly complete and ready for painting, this shows the variety of materials used - tinned steel footplate; steel boiler tube; brass smokebox, firebox and boiler fittings; nickel silver tanks, bunker and cab; wood buffer planks. The wheels were constructed by shrinking steel tyres on to brass centres. This loco was built back in the 'dark ages' when suitable small motors for O Gauge were hard to find. It originally had an ex RAF surplus motor as shown here driving a vertical worm shaft running in two ball bearings via bevel gears. I believe these motors were either 12v or 24v and I must have got one of the latter as it was far too slow. It was later fitted with an open frame Pittman DC81 motor sited more conventionally between the frames, which was faster but too noisy. So now its on its third motor, a Buhler can motor mounted vertically. View underneath as completed, opposite way round to the previous view. The axles and frames are split electrically so there are no pick-ups. There is a short inner steel frame, slotted for the axleboxes and joined fore and aft by spacers of tufnol rod. Fixed to this subframe are the full length frames in brass with perspex block spacers, fore and aft for attaching the body and centre for mounting the motor. The brake cross beams are from insulated material, probably copper clad sleepers. The rear driven axleboxes are clamped in position by the keeper plates and the other four normally sit at the top of their slots but are allowed to drop - a crude form of three point suspension, but it seems to work OK and electrical pick-up is certainly no problem. The frames are insulated from the footplate and bufferbeams by a layer of paper. Lining was expertly carried out by Larry (coachmann)

It's a while since I did them but it was probably just Humbrol matt black with a touch of grey or white to make it "off black". After lettering they would have had a coat of Humbrol matt varnish which tends to add a grey tint - sometimes when you don't want it ! Stop - you're making me blush !

On to the rolling stock, first the wagons A colliery layout needs plenty of open wagons and there are a total of 46, mainly built from Slaters, Parkside and Peco kits with a few of the new Lionheart RTR. 7 plank wooden NCB internal wagons are Slaters (left) and Parkside (right). The Slaters kits required planks scribing on the interior sides and ends and also interior strapping. The floors had planks and bottom doors already moulded in, but no bottom door catches are included in the kit so they had to be fabricated. The Parkside kits required slightly less work as interior detail is included, but the plastic brake levers and lever racks were replaced with Ambis etched parts. Custom transfers were provided by Blackham. On both types of kit the brake gear was replaced by ABS white metal parts, which I thought was better detailed, it gets the shoes nearer to the wheels and gives the slight 'V' shape in plan to the push rods which I believe is more correct. There is one solitary 10 ton wagon from a Slaters kit - a repainted early effort with original kit brakegear. The NCB steel internal wagons are from Peco kits, with their opening end doors intended for use with the canal wagon tippler (when it gets built !) The remainder of the wagon fleet are BR 16 ton minerals from Parkside (left) and Peco (right) kits with a few RTR by Lionheart

When I've done it in the past I used a mix of 3 parts Humbrol No.80 grass green + 3 parts No.24 trainer yellow + 1 part No.34 matt white. However last time I used this mix it looked far too yellow, so the mix I finally ended up with was approximately 6 parts No.80 + 1 part No.24 + 1 part No.34. This looks too light a colour before you put it on, but I think the final result is OK, and it seems to match the grass round here at least !

Yes I think it was, with a note saying it was a forthcoming or proposed future kit. I didn't take much notice as, while I would like to include some of these, they were not used in the Lancs NCB as far as I know. Perhaps another member who visited Telford might have noticed this item and could give a bit more information.

GRASS: For basic grass areas I've used fibres from old carpet underlay. This method may now be rather outdated, but the first areas were done before static grass became available and I wanted to keep the same effect throughout the layout. From a normal viewing distance I think it gives a reasonable representation of the rough grass found in embankment areas. The original underlay material The material was torn into small pieces, bleached and then dyed. After it was dry came the most time consuming and tedious job - removing all the unwanted material comprising bits of paper, string, wool, etc, etc. After sorting a small amount of fibres were taken, formed into a ball about 10mm diameter…… part was cut off to expose the ends of the fibres and this was then 'planted' in a thick layer of PVA adhesive The result after completing the whole area After the adhesive had thoroughly dried a craft knife was run through with the blade upside down to cut any loops in the fibres, and the material was then raked, combed and trimmed, probably removing about 2/3 of the material in the process. The grass rake used - made from Peco track pins and a couple of pieces of scrap brass After completion of raking, combing and trimming. At this stage I thought the result looked quite reasonable, the fibres had taken the dye quite well (Dylon Amazon Green), but it didn't quite match areas done previously so I carried on to the next steps The grass areas were then masked off and spray painted. After painting with matt paint I thought the grass looked a little too matt, so I gave it a spray of gloss varnish. Finally when the paint was dry I mixed a thin straw colour paint and touched over the tops of the fibres with a damp brush. Compared with the more or less instant result with static grass, this may all sound rather time consuming, tedious and boring - it certainly is !

BALLAST: Ballast and groundcover is a mixture of coal dust, ash and pit waste (a light grey shale), the latter item being obtained from the vicinity of Bickershaw Colliery. The mixture is varied - darker (more coal dust) in the vicinity of coal handling areas and lighter elsewhere. Any areas adjacent to the track that are regularly walked on are usually smooth, or, perhaps more accurately, well compacted. I pity the poor scale model workers on some layouts who have to go about their business on a surface equivalent to a pebble beach ! The bulk of material used is a size that will pass through the smallest size sieve I could find - a tea strainer, and in certain areas I also use dust produced by part filling a jar with material, stretching a piece of nylon stocking over the top, turning the jar upside down and shaking vigorously. I've tried three methods of laying ballast, with varying degrees of success. 1. The (perhaps) usual method of laying the ballast first dry, wetting and then dripping in dilute PVA. This didn't work very well; the material was difficult to lay in a sufficiently thick even layer; difficult to wet without disturbing it and the water and PVA tended to settle finer material down, leaving just the coarse material on the surface or float the fine material into places you don't want such as round chairs and rail. 2. The method used in some areas is to build up the depth in plaster and then glue a thin layer of ballast on the surface. This can be tedious, placing and levelling the plaster without getting any on sleepers, chairs or rail; sealing it so the glue doesn't soak in too much and then gluing and laying the ballast. The plaster also has to be pre-coloured or painted in case it shows through the thin ballast layer. 3. The most common method used is to glue and ballast in layers, as follows: Glue applicators are old eardrop or similar containers with the caps drilled and empty biro ink tubes forced in. The longer tube on the left is for harder to reach areas such as under pointwork. First a layer of fairly strong PVA + water + wetting agent is applied using the applicators direct or a small brush for corners. Any air bubbles should be burst or there will be a hollow in the ballast. The ballast mix is applied and given about 20-30 minutes so it's started to harden but still fairly soft. Excess ballast is vacuumed off - carefully so as not to lift the glued material. A strip of scrap brass is then used to level and compact the ballast. Another layer of more dilute PVA mix is then applied, which should readily spread over the still soft first layer and more ballast mix applied and the process repeated. Depending on the depth you are at and the depth you want, a third layer may be required. After the final layer is compacted and still soft, I apply very dilute PVA mix where required which should readily soak in and dust or dust/ballast mix to well trodden compacted areas alongside and between tracks. The completed ballast is then left to dry completely before final vacuuming. Completed but not finished ballast. Further compacting or 'smoothing' of the surface can be carried out when dry by rubbing with fingers, emery paper or even files. Clumps of grass need to be added and fine coal spillage applied where required over ballast and sleepers. Most colliery railways seemed to serve as unofficial public footpaths so any useable spilled coal wouldn't remain for long ! Over time I find that household dust tends to lighten these areas despite regular vacuuming, the very finest dust being difficult to remove. I've had some success in reversing this trend by spreading fine coal dust and then vacuuming it off, the very finest coal dust like the very finest household dust tends to stick. You need to keep the vacuum nozzle a constant distance above the surface - about 1/4" - otherwise you get very patchy results.

Nick, Track plan of Buxton Central as requested:

This is from the history of Buxton Lime on the Tarmac Ltd website: (During the Second World War) Many of the old kilns the company operated were closed down as it proved impossible to get them to conform to the blackout regulations, although two kilns at Buxton Central Quarry were fitted with closed tops which also had the effect of increasing the production rate. but it doesn't help with the method of firing. I would guess that they were coal fired, same as the kilns at Tunstead which were coal fired until converted to gas firing in the 1970s, but see the note below regarding the gantry arrangement. I have a few more photos showing the kilns, unfortunately of rather poor quality: Taken in 1961 showing the kilns still in use with wagons in the sidings and the Simplex loco visible just to the right of the elevated weighbridge cabin In 1963 after closure of the kilns An enlargement from the previous photo I can't help with the gantry arrangement, although it seems to be connected to a pipe or something extending over the top of the kilns. If the kilns were actually oil fired I suppose it might be an oil delivery arrangement ???? I have a track plan of the sidings, if that's any help.

All wheels are sprung plus a certain amount of side play Chris, I'll give more details of locos later.

Yes it does, but you need to be careful propelling wagons, especially empty ones, round the 3ft. radius. However with the normal method of working there is no need to do that. All the locos go round OK including the 0-8-0T, although with the latter loco the point coming off the curve has to be taken slowly or the leading wheels will climb the frog.

A round one would be nice, but there just isn't enough room: So Plan A, a flat one, will have to do. A little more forward planning would have produced a better result here methinks.

Its over 20 years since I had the point levers cast, and I doubt if the patterns and moulds are still available. I did consider producing them commercially at the time but they did require quite a lot of work to assemble. The castings were quite rough and required a lot of fettling, all the holes drilling and assembly by soldering as the base was in two halves. Then I had to file square heads on four pins per lever for the fixing bolts. If I was doing it now I think it might be easier to make the base out of etchings rather than castings. SB models do a GWR point lever which has a similar base: http://www.sbmodels.org/D04a_pointlever(4)gwr.html The lever itself is wider but could be altered or replaced.

Point Control, etc The points in the loco shed area are worked by slide switches similar to the ones used by the Rev Peter Denny on his Buckingham layout and described in an article in Railway Modeller about 1960. He used square section hardwood keys, but I used rectangular mild steel bar which I had available. These slide in a frame separated by square stripwood with similar material for the end stops and are connected directly to the point tiebars by rodding and angle cranks or wire in copper tube. A brass strip fixed to the top of the steel bar contacts two round head bolts in a plywood strip fixed across the top of the frame and acts as a changeover switch for frog polarity. The sketch below gives the general idea. They were cheap and easy to construct, and have (so far, touch wood) been reliable. The latter is fairly important as apart from the operating ends shown in the photo above everything else is buried under the scenery. Available space didn't allow this system elsewhere so all other points are worked by H&M solenoids. The hinged flap has electrical connections by means of spring plungers from old bayonet light bulb sockets as shown below. These were set in holes in the end timber with a wire soldered to the end and make contact with short lengths of brass rod similarly set in holes with wire attached and as the flap closes they make a slight wiping contact. The flap is retained in the operating position by two sliding bolts which carry the power supply to the track beyond via connecting wires marked A and B in the photo.

Hmm, I hadn't thought about twisting it. I don't think I'd quite get 45 degrees, perhaps just parallel to the retaining wall (shown in green), and I'm not sure whether this would be better or worse. However an interesting thought, Thanks.

I assume you mean the corner mentioned in photo 6 of Post #5. There isn't much room for trees and in any case they wouldn't hide the full height of the corner. The proposal is for a chimney which could extend the full height of the backscene. The flat chimney on the backscene behind the colliery screens actually hides a joint in the backscene. The chimney on the corner would be associated with a winding engine house in the corner round the corner from the corner, if you see what I mean ! - the sketch below probably explains this better. The engine house would be based on the one at Ellesmere Pit adjacent to Walkden Yard, closed for coal winding but retained for pumping. From the angle of the photo of course it wouldn't look right, you would be looking at a flat chimney end on. However with the layout operating you wouldn't be standing there anyway, that area is occupied by the hinged flap shown on the layout plan. When operating that end of the layout you are standing near the tippler where the controls are so you would see the chimney face on so it shouldn't look too bad.

No I don't run spoil trains, and as far as I'm aware I don't think they were commonly used during the NCB period in Lancashire except for some collieries on the Walkden system. In earlier times ordinary wooden wagons were used and the dirt shovelled out on the tips by gangs of men. Later at some collieries modified wagons were used with sloping floors and a side door the length of the wagon. In 1943 Manchester Collieries started using dumpers at Gibfield Colliery which produced large savings in labour and the use of wagons, and this was soon extended to the company's other collieries. On the Walkden system, Astley Green ceased using rail for dirt disposal in 1944 but later reverted to rail haulage to tips on the south side of the Bridgewater Canal. At the north end of the system a large tipping site was established at Cutacre Clough near Brackley Colliery and this then took waste by rail from Mosley Common, Sandhole and Brackley Collieries. In both cases ordinary wooden or steel mineral wagons were used and emptied in a rotary tippler which fed a bunker via a conveyor for loading the dumpers or scrapers which spread the material on the tip. In other NCB areas which ran spoil trains the 'V' tippers seemed to be more or less universal, although In the North East hopper wagons were used for carrying spoil to staithes where it was loaded into ships for disposal at sea. I did find some wooden tippers similar to the ones you described out of use at Norton Colliery in Staffordshire I did note a pilot model of a 7mm scale 'V' tipper at Telford, I think it was on the Agenoria stand.

Thanks for your input Osgood, and to answer your query on the Wemyss photo - it is in the Oakwood Press book page 150. Obviously you need to be careful with your wording on here, when I said 'finished' I meant the only track itself. That'll teach me to be more careful in future We all do work in different ways and to me the logical sequence is to lay the track, make sure it all works OK, paint it, ballast it and then do the basic ground cover - any paved or unpaved areas and grass, which is where I'm at now with a large area of the layout. Then its all the buildings and finally details, weathering and 'untidyness'. I can't see the point of detailing areas where there is whacking great voids where the buildings should be. Others may have different ideas. The 'dirt' is a mixture of coal dust, ash and pit dirt (colliery waste), so Barnaby if that is clean dirt where do you get dirty dirt ? gismorail - correct the loco shed is based on Walkden Yard loco shed, measured by counting the bricks on site. Actually its only the front half as I didn't have room for the full length of the prototype.

These show the road passing under the town wall and railway: