njee20

Yes, I get all of that, just surprised. The chairs will be very quick indeed, under an hour I'd expect, and you can fit as many as you like on - the only dimension which impacts print time on a resin printer is the height, unlike FDM.

Bought some bullhead rail at Warley at the weekend to have a go at this in N gauge for some hidden pointwork, should be fun!

On 20/11/2023 at 19:55, hayfield said:

 

I went out twice and the machine just looked after itself, I came back caught up with a program on TV and once it was finished the print had stopped and the bed and track base was cooling down. As you can see there is space inside the grey boundary marker, but the more items on the bed the longer it will take to print. This turnout took 6.5 hours, but did it all on its own once started

 

 

The bases once taken off the printer track base, think it cost about 40p to print

6.5 hours sounds like a very long time for that. Is the Cura profile very slow?

Whilst you can buy 'blank' sound decoders it would be a curious thing to do for 99% of users. There are a handful of free projects out there from the likes of ESU if you have the requisite hardware to flash the decoder, but generally the sound providers (LegoManBiffo, YouChoos, Digitrains etc) will sell you a decoder pre-loaded with a sound file of your choosing. You plug in your decoder, stick the loco on the track and it makes chuffing/brmming/whirring noises as appropriate.

In effect the controller simply sends 'commands' to the decoder, so you have a button for F2, and that makes a horn noise. There is no software installation per se.

The design screams 1994 to me rather than 2024! Hopefully any early render, but it looks awful. 

That is interesting! Hope it sells well for them. 

54 minutes ago, DCB said:

Bad move, your eyes stop seeing small bits as you get older, your fingers turn to a full set of 10 thumbs  what took two seconds to re rail a 000 coach in 1960 turns into a quarter of  an hour for N gauge now.    Stick with 00  or size  up to 0 gauge.  Only good thing about N is a lot is now UK made (albeit Welsh)

We need the dislike button back for posts like this. Ill informed, inaccurate and slightly bigoted for good measure. Chapeau.
 

The smallest item you can model is the same in any scale. N foregoes some of those bits, but IMO it’s no more fiddly. You need to have good track, the larger scales are more forgiving. Kato Unitrack is great for ease of use and quickly getting up and running. Peco code 55 gets my vote as the best compromise between cost, realism and usability. 

Dapol don’t make much N in Chirk either. I believe it’s more OO, but not too much by way of rolling stock. 

Whilst I'm sure it'll all become clear in the fullness of time (I saw Ben say the custom number ordering will go live soon) it's custom numbers not custom liveries. I rather presume that there would have to be a 'base model' of hybrid DB/EWS to be able to add your own number. Otherwise where does that end?

It's an obvious livery, still worn by many of the fleet, and not offered on general release by either brand to date (Dapol do 002 in a set),  but I can't see that being an option at launch.

1 hour ago, billbedford said:

Harder than what exactly?

 

The "calculation" is simple mental arithmetic, Multiply the feet by 12 and add the inches. 

 

Though I realise this may come easier to those of us schooled before decimalisation. 

I have no issues whatsoever with maths (gold star for the patronising tone 🙄), but I don't understand how taking the real dimensions of an object, and converting everything individually is easier than designing 'full size' and then converting once. It'll depend what you're using as a source though of course and what measurements are provided, and whether you 'think' in inches.

Just now, billbedford said:

... for the more mathematically challenged, draw your model at 12 mm to the foot, that is 1 mm to 1 inch. Then reduce your model to one-third or 33.333%.

But then you have to calculate every dimension as you go. Surely that’s far harder?!

Superb, that looks great!

On  CAD I would (did) start with Fusion360 myself. Yes it's a steep learning curve, but I think outgrowing a more immature product and having to re-learn stuff would be too frustrating. 

On resin I think Sunlu ABS-Like is the best balance between strength and value. It's typically £18-20/litre on Amazon, and less than that periodically. Siraya Fast is great, but is more like £35/litre. I keep that for 'best' if that's a thing!

10 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

While making big woofly V8 noises - yup!  Then they present the 'Cleetus McFarland' version with two turbos the size of the moon.....what rules?

Ahh, yes, the 8.7 litre version which makes a whopping 185bhp!

Back mildly on topic… vegas this weekend. Weather looks chilly. Course looks awful. Could be interesting. 

Agreed. It’s just so much more flexible than Peco etc. Trying to lay a gentle curve is a right pain! I found just making tiny adjustments as it dries is the best you can do.

I’m running 7 printers in an unheated garage. I use a heat gun on the vat for 30 seconds before printing. The curing is exothermic, so it’ll stay warm. KISS. 

I ended up with at least 20 EWS 66s, because they're everywhere, so it seemed appropriate. Then I decided that was a bit daft and thinned the collection. Still got 5-6, plus a similar number of FL green ones, and DB red ones (albeit various different logos). The reality is that most locos are 'vanilla' ones, so whilst it's nice to have loads of quirky one-offs it's comparatively unusual. GBRf are doing their best to render that untrue, mind!

15 hours ago, Vistisen said:

I'm the other way round. I have already bought a resin printer and begun to produce windows with it for scratch-built buildings. But trackbeds will not print well on a resin printer. As far as I can work out, the larger the base area is (and therefore larger track sections), the more difficult it is to get a flat level baseplate. I have an Elegoo Mars3pro resin pinter which I am very pleased with. and I also bought a Elegoo Mercury Plus wash and cure station.  Which makes the whole process og cleaning the resin prints much easier. I am thinking that an Elegoo Neptune 3 Pro might be tne next thing to get.  It has auto base leveling, which I hope will save alot of hassle

I've printed quite a lot of bases just flat on the plate. The problem is with size, where many resin printers are quite limiting, particularly in larger scales. Blind holes (where they're closed off by the build plate) can often fill with resin too - you need long light off delays to allow the resin to drain from the holes before the resin cures in them. I've done some N gauge bases on a Saturn, and they end up very flexible as they're thin, but I don't see that as a bad thing particularly.

On FDM I've got a Neptune 2, and honestly the bed levelling just isn't as much of a headache as people say IMO. Certainly nice to have, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. I think it's standard on all the Neptunes now.

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

This is one of those subjective debates, everyone has an opinion and an idea of what they'd like from a model. I suspect if people are asked if they want maximum achievable detail and fidelity most RMWeb users would answer with a loud yes. If you asked then whether models should be robust, usable and not unduly fragile or prone to shedding bits I suspect you'd get another loud yes. And to ask another question, if you asked people whether price is important or if they're willing to pay whatever it costs without worrying about price I suspect most would say that although they're willing to pay for a quality product they aren't willing to write out a blank cheque to manufacturers. So it's a trilemma (to use the management-ese buzz word) and both enthusiasts and manufacturers will be looking at optimum balance.

 

I am an enthusiast of Japanese N. The Japanese have a very different philosophy in N (one which I think is worthy of a discussion of its own), while companies like Kato, Tomix, Micro Ace etc are fully capable of going all out for detail if they wanted to (look at Tomix Prestige in 1/80), they don't do so in N. They put great effort into getting contours and shape right (and that must be challenging for some Japanese types which are borderline bonkers in industrial design), nailing the liveries (again not always easy for some Japanese types) and first class running qualities. They then apply what Hornby called 'design clever' when it comes to detail and their models only use seperately applied detail where it makes a difference to overall impression, don't really bother with hidden underframe detail, coach end stuff for fixed formation trains etc. There's an element of impressionism, it's about making models 'look right', a highly subjective idea and one which blends engineering with art as it's not just about applying a shrink ray approach. However, running qualities are superb (still the benchmark in my opinion) and prices might make UK and European N gauge enthusiasts weep. The price largely results from the scale of production and size of the market for N in Japan, but is also a function of what technical people might call value engineering and putting money where it matters.

 

Another case study at the opposite end of the spectrum is Chinese HO, another interest of mine (you may get the idea I love Asian trains, and I do). Chinese HO models are exquisite, companies like ChangMing, N27, XingXing have made some models which push the envelope with what is achievable with detail, seperate parts, multimedia construction, under frame details and trick features. Some of the models are quite remarkable, but perhaps counter intuitively given how many in the west view China prices may make many weep for the other reason (they're not cheap) and they can be ridiculously fragile to he point that just removing them from the box is a fraught experience. I view them as almost a modern day equivalent to brass, beautiful display objects which aren't great for running.

 

I really think the Japanese approach is worthy of further study, the below is a model of one of my favourite Shinkansen types, the series 500 by Tomix (AKA 'the other' big Japanese manufacturer, which is actually bigger than Kato). It's superbly done in terms of shape and finish but detail is what is necessary for a layout model. This cost me (new, not pre-owned) S$160, less than £100 for the set (including superb packaging) and runs like a dream, smooth and silent. Now that price was like most UK models in being discounted, and didn't have 20% VAT etc so I don't think you'd pay that in the UK (I know so) but the price should still be an awful lot less than UK and European outline EMU sets. Would modellers accept this, or is it more important to go all out for detail? It's a question with no 'right' or 'wrong' answer but it's a genuine question and one which is seldom asked perhaps because when Hornby tried it in OO they didn't do it well and prices didn't reflect the different approach.

I think it depends on the model. The Kato 800 received lots of plaudits, and it employs a similar approach - lots of moulded detail and omission of ‘unimportant’ detail. It’s not bad, but it does look less detailed to my eye, and that’s on something (much like that 500 series) which is inherently ‘simple’. I think if Kato did that on something that had a lot more going on it would be a bit disappointing. The 66 is perhaps a good example for the UK market. We have two dated models, Dapol are bringing a new super detailed one to market. Kato have done one previously, which is on par with the 15 year old models we have. I’m not sure the market wants another less detailed one, without native DCC capability, NEM couplings and all the other standards Kato eschew in the interest of simplicity. The performance is always good though. 
 

Conversely I can see why scale cut levers would be insanely fragile, and I also understand the ‘you can’t see it as part of a rake’ philosophy.

Personally I think the level of detail we have now is fine, and I’m ok with the pricing, however stuff does need to work. 

I actually much preferred the UI on the Sky+ box, and I liked that you could move recordings from box to box via the HDD, and you could use a device to send the signal to another TV (eg the bedroom), Sky Q requires you buy mini boxes and pay for multi-room,  but Sky Q is still good, and better on balance IMO.  

Curing outside is fine year round, but yes not ideal in the dark/very overcast days. Hence saying i just use a handheld UV light for those circumstances. The curing station is ok for parts that fit. But lots don’t. stock bodies for example don’t, you have to balance them on end. This will be a problem with turnout bases, and chairs will be so small it won’t be ideal. 
 

apologies - wasn’t wishing to steer the thread into the nuances of 3D printing ‘stuff’, but a lot of people are put off resin printing by a lot of complexity that simply doesn’t actually exist. 

I’ve had a wash and cure machine for several years, but don’t find it overly useful. Wash in two ice cream tubs of acetone (or just in a small ziplock bag for small bits) and cure outside or with a handheld UV light. I personally wouldn’t bother with one now YMMV.  

On 05/11/2023 at 00:36, TomE said:

Maersk have announced 10,000 job cuts by the end of 2024 due to decreasing demand for shipping, so it could certainly be a contributory factor to the reduction. 

 

Tom.  

My day job is software for large marine insurance buyers, and the container lines are all panicking a bit too as all the new ships ordered during the covid boom are now being delivered, just as everyone’s warehouses are full and the cost of living is way up! The value of the ships has tanked too, but the new ones have been purchased at ‘peak’ prices!

I note all the RoS discounts on Dapol stuff at the moment, whilst Farish prices seem to be sticking higher, both retail and (lack of) discounted. Great that they’re managing to get stuff into shops quickly though, even if I don’t ‘need’ any of it!

The platforms at London Bridge are split into multiple blocks - signal on platform 3 visible here halfway down the platform, with the next one at the end of the platform on the gantry. Again obviously markedly shorter than a train. Presumably a factor in the ETCS.

Old thread I realise, but DB red is RAL 3020 “Traffic Red”. Halfords do an aerosol, may be called ‘workshop red’ or something IIRC. 

I’ve been watching this with interest since the beginning, but as someone who models FB trackwork in N it’s not really entirely relevant for me yet!

On printing I started with resin and then bought FDM - there’s no ‘progression’ as such IMO, they’re just different, neither is easier or harder, both have their challenges. Very little transferable skill. 
 

I’d urge people to stay away from water washable resins. They’re markedly less stable, and it’s not really any easier. It’s just as unpleasant as the normal stuff, so after washing you’re left with contaminated water you can’t dispose of. IPA or acetone on the other hand will evaporate quickly. I’m sure people pour it down the drain; but that’s grossly irresponsible. I wonder if the same people would pour used engine oil down the drain in the same way. 

On resins Sunlu ABS-like is well priced and yields nice results. It’s markedly less brittle than a lot of other resins. Siraya Fast is great as well, but a chunk more expensive.    

You asked this two weeks ago, and got answers then. 
 

The easy way to check is that the short ones look really short. Sod over hangs and whatnot. They’re old, crude models. this is a short Scotrail one.