Clem

Surely 1964 or before? - All gone by September 1964.

Yes - I found them too, yesterday evening! Thanks for coming back to me on that! It suddenly clicked... North East .. Chris Pendlenton,,,, Dave Bradwell!! (Tempted to say Mornington Crescent). I'm really pleased they're still available but I'll also try out the Brassmasters ones at some stage too, given the opportunity.

Definitely not in the wrong league with all your ingenious creations, Clive. But modelling in P4 requires you to spring or compensate stock unless your track is 100% perfect. Since changing to EM from P4 around 2003, I've simply taken with me the experience of some of the other advantages you get for the extra work involved and used them occasionally for my EM modelling. But for the sake of time, I now mainly use rigid under frames for wagons, Hornby bogies on my RTR tarted up carriages etc..... And also cutting and shutting as well occasionally when required. And very often the best satisfaction for me comes when I've taken a dimensionally challenged RTR model and made it look right. It so happened that in this case, the free running and gliding through pointwork of these bogies, made me stop and think about the possibility of using them to improve the running of some of my heavier Kirk based stock which seem to be a struggle for my tight curves.

Just for clarity Taz, Brassmasters are compensated rather than sprung are they?

I'm in the middle of making a signal box for? - still haven't got a name for my layout - but possibly Nuthall or Nuthall and Watnall. We'll see. But this has nothing to do with the fact that it doesn't take me much to get distracted on to something else. I came across and fished out a half-finished Kirk Diagram 65 Brake Third which I started in the early 90's and not finished. In P4, I just couldn't resist converting it to EM. Even though I need another D65 like a hole in the head! Anyway, I thought "I'll convert it for a bit of fun and then put it away". Hmmm... not likely! 2 or 3 days later and I've added all the under frame detail and after the alarm gear and vac pipes get added it'll go for painting. The thing that got me about it, was its ride through point work. They're Pendlenton-Mitchell sprung bogies with Comet cosmetic side frames. Once I had seen it glide along, I was bitten!. The truth is that dimensionally and from a standard of modelling basis, it doesn't hold a candle to a tarted up Hornby but thanks to Tony, I can welcome it to my family of carriages as a 'layout coach'. Now where was I? Oh yes.. back to the signal box.... BTW, can you still get Pendlenton-Mitchell sprung bogies?

Thanks for taking the time to expand Andrew. Really sound detailed explanation. It's priceless to those of us who wish to get better at this lark. Regarding the shade of crimson, for my layout set 1954/5 there would have been ample time for the crimson to fade somewhat. But I intend to vary it a little anyway - there was always carriages that had just gone through works and in any case, I want to try the Rail Match crimson too.

Hi Andrew, Thanks for coming back to me. A really useful and informative reply. Comet sides? On the primer subject, I shall look out for Tetrosyl as I have in the past had, at best, mixed results from Halfords. The shade of crimson for early 50s carriages always leads to an interesting discussion. I have plumpted for the Phoenix Precision Crimson (faded) as I generally try to match up to colour photos from which I take my reference and it seems pretty close to many of the photos I have (e.g. see Hugh Ballantyne's 'Eastern Steam in Colour' P60). There's much discussion about how the colour in colour photos is both notoriously unreliable and subjective but I think for me, it's a case of working from a benchmark and they provide a convenient one. Having said that, I notice that even in old photos the crimson colour varied and rail match crimson as finished on your's is also spot on in comparison with the photos in Keith Pirt's 'Steam Colour Portfolio Midland & Eastern Lines' . As for repainting RTRs, I found from previous side replacement projects that the glazing on the discarded sides seems to be very permanently attached and this was one of the factors that encouraged me to try my hand at brush painting - something I've very rarely risked for main coats before. However, after a number of thin coats, the paint finish was quite reasonable only to be reduced in quality by the Humbrol Gloss Clear used to give the steel panel effect. I certainly haven't built enough to have a knowledgeable point of view either on carriage building or painting. Hence I'm very keen to learn off other folk and I've always been stunned (in a good way!) by photos of your work. BTW did you apply the very subtle but convincing/effective weathering using dry brush techniques?

Thanks John for the information. I think, bearing in mind the speed this thread travels at, and that most people won't go trawling back on this thread through potentially hundreds of pages, in a few days that link will be fairly difficult to find unless one specifically searched for it which is unlikely on any kind of scale. So hopefully , using common sense for this case, I can simply let it fade into the archives. However rest assured for all future similar postings for others on the thread here, I'll try to identify and ask the current copyright holder first.

Should I remove it then? ... Or will everyone who happens to open it be privately studying it?

Already ordered. Thank you so much for the info. I've been wanting to get my hands on some for the last few years!

Found it.... Building_a_J6_Twice_001.pdf As it's over 50 years old(!!) I assume it's out of copyright. If I'm wrong, of course I'll delete it.

You can never have too many pictures of J6s in my opinion! I can't lay my hands on the Peter Everton article at the moment but if I do, I'll post it.

Hi Adam. I remember that article! It was brilliant. He used 3mm scale wheels for driving wheels so that the flanges would be closer to scale - (before the days of proto4). I've still got it somewhere. I'll see if I can look it out.

Hi Andrew, Lovely. That's the kind of finish to these RTRs I've been looking for. If I may can I ask what method you used to paint them. I brush painted mine very carefully (3 coats for teak panelled crimson and 4 for steel panelled). I was happy with the finish but found the varnish seemed to leave it less smooth on close inspection, although the reflection on the sides gives a reasonable impression cleanish steel panelling when the coach is moving. Did you take your's apart and spray as was my initial thought? I was going to do that but I just couldn't face all the masking off so many windows.(Laziness strikes again!) Hi Steve. Thanks for that. I thought you probably used the original Klear. Your method certainly has put the icing on the cake. I find that I get little particles appearing in the new formula. I wish I could get hold of some of the original but it's like going in search of the lost chord! I've used a different shade of red to you as mine is pre-1956 livery change.

Is that the original Johnson's Klear? ... and the Humbrol satin varnish is that the 'Clear' varnish or enamel? The reason I'm asking is that I've just done some RTR repaints and used Humbrol Gloss Clear on the Peppercorn Lavatory Composite and Brake Third. It's not a write-off but I'm less than 100% happy with the finish. I did think of using several coats of Johnson's Klear but I haven't any of the original, only the new formula which I've had mixed results with before.

I think Ian's running some more off in the next few weeks. Seeing your's in the flesh hasn't half wetted my appetite! Lovely job! Did you varnish it after painting? it's a got a nice steel panel sheen.

Yes I will, although I will feel a little embarrassed with it how poorly I built it. Your's looks a far better build and finish. As soon as I had built my first Nucast J6, I'm afraid the WSM model (which limped a little bit going forward if I remember correctly) was consigned to the shelf. But I suppose I do have a funny sentimental attachment to it as it was one of those important first steps of trying to make something.

Looking forward to building mine. Hopefully going for seconds....

The second white metal kit I ever built in 4mm. I've still got it but goodness it looks a bit rough! See what a difference of 45 years does to the modelling of the same engine.... The accumulated dust and dirt on the WSM kit in the foreground is from years of unloved open storage (although it's been kept in a box in recent years). Note the funny idiosyncrasies on the WSM kit due to lack of observation of the prototype - the handrails bent in from the smokebox to the boiler (result of not looking at photos of the prototype!!), the handrail on the cab side which is anything but horizontal and the missing/broken hand hold at the front of the tender. Funny thing is, it still gives off that J6 feeling in spite of all the shortcomings. In OO, I have no idea whether it still runs...

I assume it's at each end of the frames, Jonathan. To get the frames to fit in EM there is a fair amount of surgery to the underside of the body (where the Bachmann chassis slides in) required at the front just to get it level, but it looks as though a bit of extra work is still needed to get the body to sit a bit lower and achieve the correct buffer height. I've also built a Bradwell one in P4 and that was a bit easier (it's what he designed the chassis for), although I find his horn blocks and springing method a bit awkward and fiddly. The Comet chassis model is built as a rigid chassis which is rare for me - only the second I've done since way back when in my OO days of the early 80's. I must say everyone is different but I struggle getting rigid chassis to run as smoothly as sprung or compensated ones, but a lot of people swear by a rigid chassis. (I swear at it after I've built it!). Each to their own.

Hi Tony, Dave Bradwell produces a chassis with a lubricator : This is J39/2 on a Bradwell chassis. As a comparison below, here is 64832 on a Comet chassis. And here are the lubricators in detail: First of all 64832 on the Comet. This is where I cheated. The Dave Bradwell fret provides more than one per fret, presumably as they're so delicate. So the Comet class J39/1 actually has a Bradwell lubricator. And finally the Bradwell chassis: A couple of things to note about each of the chassis: The Dave Bradwell chassis builds into a fully sprung chassis which has really been designed for P4. It is far more difficult to build than the Comet chassis. I haven't tried building one in OO but in EM it is particularly awkward if you build it as per the instructions and you tend to get a chassis whose width across the frames is right on the limit of what is acceptable for EM. The Comet chassis is easier to build, but I didn't notice for a considerable time that it sits about 1mm too high. It had occurred to me that it didn't quite look right but I couldn't put my finger on it until I buffered the two of them up together. It is something I'll put right at some stage when I get a free bit of time. Sorry about the lack of crew, lamps and cab windows. Another little job that needs doing.

Yep got it. Nice backing music. Grapelli and Rheindhart I presume? Little number in C. (not A7th).

I personally found John Sutton's Southwell Central in 3mm very inspirational. I'm not sure if it's still in existence but anyone living in or around Nottingham in the late 50's early 60's will be reminded of several well known locos that seemed at the time as though they'd be around forever. John scratch built many of these old favourites to run on his very evocative layout depicting a supposed joint Midland/GC Southwell Central which exuded atmosphere of the depicted period and railway. But all these remarkable modellers including a few who appear on this thread, have paved an easier path forward for us lower mortals and anything half acceptable that I achieve I am only too aware is because I've stood on the shoulders of these giants. A most interesting discussion...

Do anything wrong and you'd be in for the high jump!

Snap - I had exactly the same experience of a switch being flicked with my ex-wife. We parted 13 years ago. She hated everything I did - the band, the railway, my friends....Luckily she didn't think to attack my models after the split up. But she did go through just about every railway book I had tearing several pages out from each. It's taken me all these years to replace them and there's still many I haven't. I've been with my partner Chris for 13 years but we knew each other at school and went out together then. She's lovely. She's interested in my hobbies (as I am in hers) and only too pleased to get me out of the way into the workshop so she can get one with her things. She loves the layout and likes my guitar playing - who could wish for more.....