Clem

Yes that certainly brings it all back. I think all of those shops you mentioned were visited by me with the exception of Redmayne and Todd (now a cafe!) as I wasn't particularly sporty. Arkwright Street was a long road leading into Nottingham from the South with a wonderful collection of shops where you could get virtually anything. There was a shop called Keva's who bought and sold second hand and where I traded in much of my early model railway stuff for other model railway stuff. In that way I went through the Lone Star OOO baby deltic train-set , a whole TT layout including Clan Line and a Britannia and all my Triang OO, as I went through phases on the different gauges. I didn't part with my Hornby Dublo though. A little later in life I did much the same with my LPs at a shop called 'Selectadisc' also on Arkwright Street. The late 1960s architectural vandalism in Nottingham didn't stop at the 'Black Boy'. Arkwright Street was wiped off the face of the map to be replaced by a 'modern' housing estate. ... And then there's Nottingham Victoria station. replaced by the biggest monstrosity of all... The Victoria Shopping Centre and flats, surely the most ugly thing you'll ever see. Talk about ripping the soul out of city. ... Ah but... Beecroft's on Drury Hill.... mmm

Cheers Andrew, many thanks for your help. I think my Airfix ones will remain as early BR from the LMS design but with a new chassis. Interestingly I have a Ratio van which I have built (many moons ago) as unfitted on its original chassis but although the sides are slightly greater than the Airfix one, it sits lower and is actually slightly lower overall. it doesn't appear to be a build error on the Ratio. I see what you mean about the vertical strapping on the Ratio van and the added the diagonal strapping on the Airfx BR example.I have to admit my knowledge of LMS vans is not great and I just need to build a few to do the research and allow it to sink in. Ex-LNER fitted vans are pretty easy to spot with their distinctive 3V type break gear but unless it has clasp brakes or you can see the vacuum pipe, LMS is not as easy particularly as their unfitted stock was painted bauxite before nationalisation and in many cases seemed to remain such well into the 50s.

Hi Andrew, A quick question if I may. I have a couple of old Airfix RTR fitted LMS vans in line for conversion and a new under frame. The seem to look OK but do you know off hand how they match up against the prototype. Worth a new under frame? Cheers Clem.

That's right. To illustrate this, I'm just building a Parkside LNER cattle wagon. I think it's been a bit of controversial subject after Oxford Rail put out a 9 foot wheelbase version in BR colours when according to the writings of several people, none made it. But Peter Tatlow contradicts this in his set of books on LNER wagons stating that the 9 foot version did but also saying that no 10 foot wheelbase ones made it past 1947. So who do you believe? In fact Steve Banks who has done a thorough article on them has suggested that Peter has now admitted that his data may have got a little mixed up and muddled on that particular wagon. But this illustrates your point. BTW I'm modifying the kit giving the wagon a 10 foot wheelbase with AVB to run on my layout set BR early to mid 50s. I'm looking at a picture of one the last survivors of this version in 1963 so I'm reasonably confident that it's correct.

Just to play devil's advocate... For those who get into modelling without prior knowledge almost certainly will not know just where to go to for reference to improve their modelling without some guidance from other more knowledgeable souls. This is where the old style model shop came in. There would invariably be an expert on hand to advise where to look for answers. The model railway club was and still is a massive help in this aspect but in a few cases it can also dumb down with encouragement to take the easy option rather than the correct one.... And I suppose there's the modelling magazines but even those champion RTR far more that kit building. I think for newcomers with an interest in good modelling, it all comes back to the old 'known unknowns and unknown unknowns' famously quoted by some vice president or other. This is why I was so supportive of Tony's piece in the RM. It threw down a challenge to folk and at least made them think about just what they were doing and why in their approach to hobby. Shame that so many muddied the message by taking offence.

Another model shop gone this month is my local model shop Gee Dee on Heathcoat Street Nottingham. Whilst they haven't really been a stockist of fine scale parts for many years, they were always on hand for paint, brushes, evergreen plastic strip, some brass strip/sections and other stuff that could be gathered up within an hour in a modelling emergency. Being a model aircraft shop too, they had many other materials used for that hobby which can be useful particularly balsa wood in various sizes. They had been in Nottingham since I was a nipper. The ageing owner tried to sell it as a going concern but after about a year of trying, he finally gave up and closed it. The only other model shop in Nottingham now (I stand to be corrected) is Sherwood Models which is on the other side of town from me and awkward to get to.

I've been going through my wagon kit box(es) since the cold weather had prevented me from some of the spray painting I need to do. Amongst the kits built recently was this D&S ex-GC Double bolster wagon. I started it Sunday morning but had more difficulty with getting it square through all planes than any kit I've done for a very long time. The reason for this kit being more difficult for me was the very shallow sides and protrusions from the sides which made it difficult to get a square against it. I've also got other square wooden jigs but they didn't really help in this case either. I must have soldered sides and ends together only to desolder them as they were a touch out of square in one of the planes a number of times until it was starting to really get on my nerves. Bear with me here.... Everyday I walk two and a half miles. I've been doing it since I had a heart attack almost 13 years ago. I've lost count of the number of times I've set off on my daily walk pondering the latest very difficult model railway problem that was halting progress only for me to come up with a solution on my daily walk. Within the first 5 minutes of the walk I'd sorted this one out too. I got back and had the wagon up and running perfectly square within an hour of getting back. The lightbulb solution was to hold each side and end, upside down on a very flat squared cutting mat using Bluetac, checking the vertical and horizontal planes and making slight adjustments until I was happy. I then tacked it up with solder with the wheels in place. Perfect first time... Job done.... You don't have to tell me. I know. I should just cut the cackle and put the picture up. Here it is..

I see that Tony is Green 'T' (tea?) whilst Tony Gee is Blackcurrant - er sorry... Purple 'T'...

I thought he'd become part of 1980s British Telecom!

Hi Tony. I've just watched the Little Bytham 1958 video. Great viewing, good presentation and a fantastic effort by you and all who have contributed. It brought it all back. Just like being there in 1958 and the natural sound was incredibly effective. One tiny criticism if I may... I think you should smile a little more when presenting. For what you've achieved, there's plenty to smile about. I'm being hypocritical here as I also get criticised for not smiling enough when I play guitar in the band. So, thank you. I've had a very entertaining morning watching it and I'm sure that I'll be the first of many to say the same. BTW if I ever write Little Lytham on here rather than Little Bytham it's not ignorance, it's that damned auto corrector. Best wishes Clem

Back from band practice.... "I have to say what's happened of late has really opened my (perhaps naive) eyes. It really does make me think 'what's the point?' Why should anyone seek to help others, encourage model-making, insist on accuracy and good practice, if what comes back from some quarters is vitriolic? Who needs this? I have dozens of kits to build, loads of pictures to take and (prototype) books to write. " (Tony Wright) Tony, my strong belief is that you should not let the critics change your didactic approach. I can't imagine how many people have benefitted from your help and encouragement over the years. I know I have and significantly. And just by hosting this thread, many others have joined in with the knowledge sharing and mutual support. I felt I had to reply to Tony's post above but now I think I've said enough on this topic... back to doing some modelling :-)

I'm sorry but I just don't get this 'elitist' argument. To me it smacks of paranoia. Most people on here love modelling and that is their number one aim. Being in some kind of hierarchy is, I'm sure, the last thing that enters their heads. This really is a problem for those who see the problem and feel offended. The only time they're ever criticised is when they complain that the RTR companies are somehow being neglectful because they don't make exactly what they want. They own the problem. All anyone on here does is try to encourage all to find the joys (and sometimes the frustrations!!) of having a go.

"It's interesting how folk can take offence so easily, isn't it Clem? I reckon, in my case, I must have a gift for it, because I do it so easily. " Tony, I have that same gift. Still it's good to be gifted! "I thought it was an excellent issue (abstracting my article, of course). " I haven't yet read your article. In fact I haven't yet bought a copy ..... But I will now - for your article if nothing else! :-) . (Of course I'm sure there are many other good articles in it.) It just beats me how people who seem to know very little about the creative side of modelling can criticise someone who has repeatedly given their time to others for the purpose of the imparting of skills, knowledge and encouragement. Creative modelling is fun and you can't beat that sense of achievement '(buzz' as us rock 'n' rollers would say) when you've finished something and it's turned out well. I do feel sorry for those who'll never experience that.

I couldn't resist going to that Facebook page and having a look.... My goodness, there was some spleen being vented. I thought about making a comment such as 'You don't know Tony Wright so how can you make such judgemental and frankly, venomous assertions." But then I thought no, when people want to be outraged and offended, no amount of reasoned argument will ebb that desire. As they say, you can lead a horse to water.....

Good memories! I also remember the ticket collectors at Nottingham Victoria. You couldn't get on the platforms with a platform ticket for love nor money. Usually a ticket to London Road High Level would do it. I remember the Directors on the Sheffield trains too. I didn't think I mentioned the service from Basford North to Nottingham Victoria via Daybrook and Gedling but that you mention it, it would have left from the bay at Basford North. My brother went to Henry Mellish School and a lot of his school chums caught it. He'd go up to the station most days with them although he didn't catch it. No, the timing I was talking about was the direct journey from Nottingham Vic to Basford as taken by all but one of the Derby trains (and the Pinxtons, too).

Yes. Northbound.

I think many have thought about it and I think there is a model in progress of one end of the station, but I can can't remember by whom. Of course the big problem is the large area under the overall roof. How the hell would you get to it for operational purposes? Still, I suppose the Lime Street boys manage somehow... BTW I think the photos taken about 1956 as the J6 has a weatherboard at the front of the tender made out of a part of a withdrawn J52.

Thanks Andrew. That is fascinating information. I don't know whether I can add much, if anything. I certainly haven't got any information of the operational diagrams of these carriages. Passenger trains took 5 minutes to New Basford and 8 minutes to Basford North station ('Basford and Bulwell' before 1950) which was just beyond the Basford North carriage sidings. The New Basford carriage sidings were on the up side whilst the Basford North sidings were on the spur down from Bagthorpe Junction. So that's a little inconclusive. I'm sure your instinct is correct that there must have been more than 5 twins allocated to Basford. So many pictures show them working in pairs with the van section to the outside and often with an additional carriage. Here's a picture of what seemed to be a fairly typical formation in the centre road at the Vic The leading carriage in the photo is, I believe, a Diagram 244. On the Pinxton service sometimes single twin was used along with a Brake third. By the way, do you know Isinglass's original source. Possibly York Museum Library?

You've made a lovely job of those, Andrew. My favourite diagram! I assume they are for use on Leicester South Goods? Here's a photo of a pair of them at Quorn with a Leicester-Sheffield service in 1952. I have several to build myself when I can get to them. I've been mass producing Parkside and Cambrian coal wagons over Christmas in order to get coal trains of the correct loadings for the Nottingham-Derby line that I'm modelling. Very quick and easy but it'll be nice to get on to something else. Returning to the D210s and picking your brain (if I may).... You said the ones you've built were based at New Basford. Do you have records of specific allocations? I've only ever managed to get general class allocations for carriages, i.e. 'the D210s were for the Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire services'. Many that worked over the GN lines in Nottingham were based at Basford North carriage sidings which were just up the GC line from New Basford on the spur to the GN Derby line. I recall seeing the allocations ('Basford N') on one or two photos on the ends of the carriages. The New Basford carriage sidings and depot were on the East side of the GC main line just north of New Basford station and I presume had a separate allocation in spite of being situated only about a mile away from Basford North.

Is there a 'vehemently don't agree' button?

Tony and Mo, here's wishing you a happy new year. Also, a happy new year to all who participate on this very entertaining and educational thread. New Year's Resolution. I must get less distracted and more done for the layout in 2019!

Hi Mike, That's a big improvement. However, up until now I've used the draft to fit individual windows from the front (a method it seems, which is also by Mr. drmdtch above) and that also helps the look of it by bringing the surface of the perspex closer to the front. Like you, I also use the MJT roofs. One thing I haven't tried though, is to add the extra height using your idea of of a styrene strip at the top. If I may ask, is that a 1mm x 1mm strip that you've used? Clem

A couple of months ago I started the London Road Models J5 kit. It has very recently been released. I still regard myself very much as a beginner in etched brass construction and I take my hat off to all of you who have been doing it for years. During the build, I had 'a fall'. I only put it that way because I'm over 65. In reality I was showing off by running down from the bus stop to the corner to see if the bus was coming when I tripped over at full pelt and smashed my skull against a paving slab in a whiplash type of movement. I can't believe how well I've recovered. I think Chris (my other half) is a little disappointed that my character didn't change a bit for the better after my head injury but unfortunately, I'm still the same person. Anyway, I digress... This kit has the makings of a very good kit but as it stands, there are 3 or 4 dimensional errors in the etchings which (don't quote me on this) I believe is being addressed by the kit's designer, Paul Craig who I think is looking at the possibility of a supplementary etch to the kit containing the corrected parts. Anyway, I've managed to get round these problems with the parts supplied and the kit is now just about constructionally complete. The only remaining item to add is the engine/tender connection. In the kit this connection has been designed in a permanent arrangement which goes against my predilection to be able to separate engine from tender easily for servicing and maintenance. But I haven't yet decided on just how I'll do it. A quick note on the prototype. It's not the most well-known locomotive class and to be honest I was fairly surprised when I learned London Road were doing it. The J5s were Ivatt's first stab at a fast mixed traffic locomotive but it was pretty well immediately superseded by his piston valve version (the J6), and only 20 J5s were built. Both the J5 and the J6 were classified J22 under the Great Northern. The class mainly operated in the Southern section of the GN around Retford, Colwick and Peterborough but by the late 1940s the class congregated at Colwick, Nottingham. The engines were all withdrawn 1953 to 1955. The J5 was the first locomotive I could distinguish as a 3 year old when my brother who was 10 years older than me took me linesiding in the pushchair. He got me into railways from the word go. We called the J5s 'coffee-pots' due to their long chimneys, but he knew all the correct classifications as well. Here are some pictures of her. 65498 was one of the last 2 withdrawn in December 1955. I have to say I made a number of rookie errors during this build but learnt a lot during the process. This proves that the journey can be just as enlightening as the destination.

Hi Jol, Whilst I agree with you up to a point, very often what you don't get with the strict 'rtfm' mode of operation and which you do get on this thread, is the benefit of a person's experience in relation to the question that you're asking. Often, other people chip in with their experiences too, and you get a broader and more comprehensive answer. The people who post on this thread, including your good self, make up a fantastic library of knowledge with all their experience, skill and craftsmanship. And the postings on here of their achievements, successful projects and, just as important, the lessons they've learned from their failures, have been a massive help to me over the past few years. I'm not a member of a local modelling club so the friendship and support on here has been very important to me. I've learnt so much from others on this thread that I would never have found on Google. Thanks to all.

Yes, I was pretty sure of your meaning but just a little puzzled by the phrasing. I only use the word infer when the word deduce could be inserted instead. People seem to use infer most often when they enquire with suspicion and also usually a little indignation 'Just what are you inferring by that?" Of course 'implying' is what they really mean.