jjb1970

I don't disagree with any of this. The disappointment I feel is not towards Rapido, it is towards the retailer.

Indeed, this is the consequential problem Hornby face in terms of customer relations. Clearly it is one of their own making, I'm half expecting them to announce they're replacing the moulded cab side hand rail on the Star with a separately fitted item as with that one revision I believe they'd address most of the negative comments towards that model.

This is a lovely looking engine and the model seems very nice to my eyes. I'll happily admit I am not really familiar enough with the prototype to appreciate how accurate the model truly is but it looks like an O2, looks nicely detailed and finished and overall seems a lovely little model.

Fair play to Hornby, if they have listened to feedback and updated the chassis to address one of the big areas of concern on the original release then well done. Some might say the model should have had brass bearings from day one, I'd agree with that, but nevertheless they deserve credit for accepting they got it wrong and then putting it right. Well done Hornby.

In many ways it was a happier model world when we had far fewer releases, the releases were nothing like as good as we now take for granted and information was as stated here limited to a toy fair announcement and an annual catalogue. Now it seems that despite the fact we see more new releases than we can shake a stick at, models which would have been considered a bit niche even for kit manufacturers not that long ago being done as RTR, levels of realism and detail which we dreamed about 20 years ago and information which is way more detailed than anything we once had it does seem that all of these improvements have just created an evermore insatiable appetite for improvement, more releases and more news. I'll admit I can be negative at times and for sure I'd hate for RMWeb to be just a forum of ditto heads to praise whatever the manufacturer of the moment says but all the same we've never had it so good.

Ergonomics and human factors is an essential part of good system design. Human beings are fallible and it has been recognised for decades that even very highly trained, competent people are liable to make errors which in hindsight appear to be inexplicable. I once investigated an incident involving multiple fatalities which was caused by operating a certain piece of high voltage apparatus in a way which was explained by most as being Darwinism in action and clearly the work of an idiot. Except that the guy who made the mistake had been the chief engineer for the design program of the apparatus in question with a reputation for being an extremely competent and capable electrical engineer. Therefore to dismiss the incident (which incinerated several people and badly burned more) as nought more than the work of an idiot would be dangerously simplistic and would do a grave disservice to the victims. I'm not an expert on level crossings and would never claim to be, but in those accidents I have investigated within my own sphere of competence I would say that a recurring factor is poor attention to human factors.

I got the member pack. The magazine is typical for these sort of things, it is not without some merit but I wouldn't pay for it. The 2 for 1 entry into attractions offer is a nice touch although I suspect most of them are obtainable via other means without joining the club (eg. go on-line, use the train etc). The badge is a nice touch. The seller for me remains the £20 voucher for a club model assuming the club models are something you want plus the discount. Whether I'd recommend anybody joining depends on whether you'd want the club models and how much use you think you might make of Hornby direct sales. If all this sounds luke warm or negative, I do think it is actually above average in some ways for this type of manufacturer club and I don't regret joining.

The reason I pre-ordered this model has nothing to do with it being limited or exclusive and everything to do with the fact that of all the trains in the world I'd want a model of the APT-E is at the top of the list. I never expected to see it in model form (although Heljan's forays into one off prototypes and demonstrators gave me hope) and certainly the reputation of Rapido gives me a very high degree of confidence that this may well not only be the only APT-E made but the definitive model in any case. That is the only reason I was happy to pre-order and pay a deposit as ordinarily I do not agree with making payments up front and consider that it is for the producer to manage their business, finance their operations and look after their own cash flow. In return for which I am happy for them to make a healthy profit and if they get rich all well and good. If Locomotion had just caveated the deadline then this would not be an issue with me. Maybe I am just an awkward so and so and cantankerous but I find their flexibility on this to be disingenuous after their marketing spin to play up the deadline and persuade customers to pay a deposit months in advance of receiving the product. I'll leave it at that.

I think it is a fair point that there is a tendency to assume all crossing incidents are the result of stupidity when that is not the case. As with all thinks, blanket generalisations are dangerous things.

Bank holidays are known months and years in advance and if they thought that was an issue it would have been simple enough to set the deadline for May 5th. They could alternatively have said that they may close the order book on April 30th subject to orders received hence they could not guarantee taking orders after April 30th. That would make clear that the deadline as such was subject to other variables and not fixed. I think this is probably a minor issue of no consequence to most but for me, if a company makes such an issue of a deadline including a constant banner headline here telling people to order before it is too late and marketing gimmicks like setting up an on-line count down then that deadline should mean something. If the deadline is extended then they could at least put a statement on their web site to say why. I'll be upfront, I do not like paying in advance for any model and managing cash flow for a commercial project. I'm not a fan of pre-orders in general but am OK with the idea of zero payment pre-orders. If a supplier takes payment on the basis that you must pre-order and pay by a deadline then I get a bad taste when they then just ignore that deadline as it feels like money has been taken under false pretences.

I think the very reason we are all so cross at level crossing stupidity is exactly because of the impact it has on railway staff (not just drivers either, conductors can be badly affected and somebody has to clean the remains off the train) and the families of the deceased. I have a colleague at work whose son committed suicide (not on the railway thankfully) and it destroyed the family and left both parents hollowed out shells. I don't think they'll ever get over it. Now that is suicide, and level crossing stupidity and suicide are two very different things but either way we should remember that the families of the deceased do suffer hugely and deserve our sympathy just as much as railway workers who should not have to go through such trauma.

I'm a bit disappointed by the extension to the deadline. Not because I see this as some sort of investment or because I want to lock people out. I'd happily accept them making as many as they wanted and have no intention of selling the unit I ordered to try and make a bit out of it. My disappointment is rather that if the deadline doesn't mean anything then why have a deadline? Locomotion were the ones who made a big thing of the count down timer and telling customers we had to order before the deadline etc, if that deadline wasn't set in stone then why bother with all the marketing guff which now seems a bit hollow? They were the ones that made a big deal of order by midnight on 30th April and then come 1st May it appears that the deadline never happened. Which strikes me as rather disingenuous at best. Now like I say, I have no great love of pre-orders or deadlines and would rather they just put the things on sale in the normal way however the message from this is that in future I'll not take Locomotion pre-order deadlines seriously.

The only way to view model release schedules is that they are optimistic statements of hope rather than realistic assessments of when products will be delivered. That is true for all the manufacturers I think (well, I'll give Rapido the benefit of the doubt as their APT does seem to be progressing pretty quickly and as planned), whether it is good or bad doesn't matter as it is what it is. Just accept it and while you wait there are plenty of other releases to drool over and buy. I do think that perhaps some manufacturers really fall down badly in mismanaging expectations, but c'est la vie. When Oxford Rail start shipping models then judge them as models, nothing more and nothing less.

Something that this has made me realise is that EBay feedback isn't worth much. I've never given negative feedback as I have never felt a need to be anything other than very positive about buyers and sellers I've dealt with. Now, the first time I have ever felt like giving negative feedback I can't. I messaged the guy several times to say if he didn't want the items it was fine but could he let me know so we could just cancel the transaction and was completely ignored. If he'd answered I wouldn't have waited around, could have avoided opening a non-payment case and if he'd responded to my request that he just agree to cancel the transaction after opening the case wouldn't have had to wait four days. That is really what has annoyed me, not wanting the models I can understand and would not have been particularly bothered about but to just ignore polite messages strikes me as being discourteous and not right. Yet he has a 100% positive feedback score and I rather suspect he would not be happy if his customers (he owns a business that I suspect everybody on this board has heard of) behaved in the same way. And to rub salt in his feedback score has been going up regularly all the while I've been left waiting so it is not like he is incapacitated or anything. Very disappointing.

I'd avoid the Grayrigg Pendolino. There is no law against it, but there are plenty of other examples to model without that baggage I think.

I only joined for the air smoothed BoB club model. Since I want that model the £20 voucher makes club membership cost neutral and the 10% discount means the Hornby website is actually very competitive, particularly as orders over £30 get free P&P. I've used the discount a couple of times and it is useful. Regarding over benefits I'm not really that bothered about the other things.

I've never really been that worried about running electrics with the pan down and no wires, clearly there is something wrong in an electric running without wires but I don't mind it. Also, my own experience of club layouts with overhead wires has not been especially positive, things like Sommerfeldt catenary were very expensive, the wires themselves didn't look great (the masts did however look good) and they were rather temperamental as well as the issues with impeding access to the track. I run my Japanese N gauge using the Japanese concept of masts without wires and am happy with that compromise. I do think we need more good overhead electrics. The two Heljan DC electrics are not great, neither is the Heljan 86. The 86 was especially disappointing as in some ways the 86 is like the 47 of the WCML, any WCML layout from their introduction onwards needs 86's. He old Hornby model is very old but to be honest I'm not sure the Heljan version is that much better (mechanism excepted) and to consider that a relatively new model really doesn't offer that much more in body terms than old 80's Hornby tooling is rather sad. The 87 is the other big need, as with the Hornby 86 the Lima 87 was a good model for its time and with work it can be made very presentable but we really could do with a good new model. Maybe it is because I am biased in that I have always lived on the WCML and grew up with classes 81, 85, 86, 87 and 90 but I've always found it disappointing that overhead electrics have struggled to find representation in OO model form. I do have some optimism in that recent years have seen a real transformation in the availability of Southern region third rail models which were another sorely under represented in model form however it does need much less imagination to run a third rail train with no third rail than an overhead electric without wires.

Thanks for the comments on non-payment, have e-mailed the bloke to say I'm opening a non-payment case on Monday morning if he has not paid. What irritates me is not so much the fact that people don't pay (although that is bad enough considering the message that appears on your screen when you bid) but just walking away without even the courtesy to tell the seller you've changed your mind and will not complete the purchase so at least they can relist the things and notify EBay so you get credited with the seller fees you're otherwise liable to pay.

How long do people normally give before opening a case with Ebay? I sold something on Sunday night, sent invoice next morning with combined postage (he bid and won two items) and sent a gentle reminder on Wednesday. The guy has several hundred positive feedback pointsand is from a well known business so have given him the benefit of the doubt for a week but I'm guessing it is time to open a case.

In N gauge the Japanese concept of using masts without wires works surprisingly well and in many ways looks better than actual wires as a result of the over scale appearnace of N gauge wires but as you scale up to 1/76 it becomes much less attractive and really you need wires for OHLE to look good.

I'll admit I find a lot of the business behind what models get made to be baffling. We have two models of the class 71 coming, excellent models of short lived pilot scheme diesels like the 15 and 16 and even one off prototypes yet the locomotives that have operated the ECML for 25 years are served in model form by what is in effect a Railroad quality model. Hornby have replaced several old diesel models, for example the 31, 43 HST, 50, 56, 60 and 67 were all in the Hornby tooling pool (admittedly mainly via acquired lines) and were replaced by new super detailed models. Bachmann gave us the superb 85 but we still lack a good 86 or 87 too. Something that may be significant is that for all I think the 85 is a tremendous model it does seem to have lingered on shelves for along time and I get the impression it has not set the world on fire sales wise. Maybe Hornby just don't see overhead electrics as being attractive to most of the market?

I ordered a demo model from Rapido and am awaiting delivery with great excitement. As you say, the model does look good but it is very significantly different from the actual demo. The nose of the demo was much cleaner and more streamlined. The demonstrator was a glorious looking train and ranks up with the APT-E as a train that represented the future when I was small.

I wonder if we'll see more gas turbine powered trains. Traditionally they were very heavy on fuel but modern engines are not that far behind diesel engines and it is possible to maintain efficiency at high turn down ratios which was the real Achilles heel of gas turbines for many applications. The lower fuel consumption would be offset by much higher energy density and ease of maintenance I think. Some of the modern high speed engines pack a lot of power into a small unit (eg. some of the MTU engines) but they're complex and pretty maintenance heavy. For some applications that need to combine high power with low-ish weight I think it would be worth having another look at gas turbine engines. I must say this APT-E is a brilliant release, to me it remains perhaps the most futuristic train ever produced in Britain and the most stylish train made in the post steam era. I remember how as a very small boy it represented a much brighter future. Some day I hope to see Rapido do the LRC demonstrator too as that was another inspirational train and looked much nicer than the production units I think.

I do hope these are released as I have always had a real soft spot for the NBL Type 2's, well since my brother had a Hornby model when I was very small at any rate. There is something very endearing about the hang dog face I think. They did an excellent job of capturing the shape on the 22 and it had some really lovely details, let down a bit by the head code arrangement which was basically just two black squares and a very dull paint finish. If they give the paint a bit more lustre and sort the head codes it'd be a fantastic model, as it is it is still very good I think.

Hopefully it is an illusion and created by the nature of an unpainted test model but the windows look very noticeably too shallow to me.