Warspite

Thanks Dave. I was fortunate to buy the complete set of nine volumes from Book Law when they were 'on special' a few years ago. They have been absolutely invaluable in my research. In fact, they have provided me with a lot of the motivation to model ironstone railways and I am indebted to the late Eric Tonks for his passion and commitment to these fascinating railways. Stephen

Thanks for the links. Part of my research showed a reasonable area of ironstone (Northampton Sand Formation, from the Lower Oolites) in the higher ground between Cogenhoe and Whiston, south of Whiston Road. The fact that there were ironstone quarries in this area (although not in the 1950s/1960s) gives me some assurance. The continued viability of the Whiston & Cogenhoe Ironstone Co. in the early 1960s was dependent on there being workable deposits of ironstone, but that of course is just part of my 'revised' history. However, my outline track plan (as in post 19) does show the quarries west of the yard have been worked out and the track no longer used. In reality, that's because I don't have enough space to extend the layout that way! Stephen

Thanks Barnaby My last layout was built without a great deal of planning and I'm determined this time to get things right at the planning stage. So you're right, progress is slow but measured although it would be nice to actually get some modelling done! Stephen

Simon Funny you should say that but I've just found the attached article in my scrapbook. What a bit of luck that was! Stephen

Thanks Andrew, that is helpful. I hadn't thought of the Hunslet take over, certainly worth considering. Although many of the ironstone quarry locos were green, my scenario assumed that the quarry owners wouldn't necessarily have repainted the 'Victory' so I wondered what colour it would have been when with the NCB. Stephen

Thanks Simon. The nice thing about ironstone railways was their eclectic motive power and Ixion/Minerva offer a lot on the eclectic front! Stephen

Chris, I think you might be just a tiny bit biased ... Stephen

I wouldn't worry too much about the length of the layout. Perhaps you can keep it simple by reducing the complexity of the track plan whilst retaining the length of the overall layout. That will also reduce the complexity of the electronics. On my last layout, I resisted the temptation to cram more track in but this did reduce operational interest. For the new layout, I have more space (approx. 12ft x 3ft) but will still try to keep track to a minimum. Having said that, I'll still probably put more track in than I need! Stephen

I've been looking at the images of the Kerr Stuart Victory on the Minerva section and wondering whether I can justify one on my proposed Whiston and Cogenhoe Quarries layout. The Victory does look very nice ... OK, so this is the scenario. With steep gradients to and from the BR exchange sidings, by the mid-1950s the ironstone quarry needed a more powerful locomotive to replace its elderly Hudswell Clarke, which had been relegated to the shorter runs to the quarries. The quarry's other locos, an even older Manning Wardle and a diminutive Fowler diesel were also not suitable for the runs to the exchange sidings. The quarry’s recent acquisition, a second hand Peckett E class, had helped this motive power shortage but something else was needed. The NCB was withdrawing its handful of Kerr Stuart Victory locos and one would be a good stopgap before the quarry could consider acquiring something more suitable. Is this a likely scenario? I am not aware that any ironstone quarry had a Victory although some had sizeable side tank inside cylinder 0-6-0Ts such as the three 16x24 Hudswell Clarkes at Wroxton, including No.1 SIR THOMAS which lasted until 1969, (would make a lovely model :-) ) and HARLAXTON, an attractive 18x24 Andrew Barclay at, obviously, Harlaxton, which also survived until 1969. Also would the NCB sell a withdrawn locomotive to another industrial operator? Final question: if the NCB did sell one of their Victory’s, what colour would it have been or would that depend on which colliery it came from? I know ‘Rule 1’ applies but I do want everything to ‘look right’. Answers on the back of a postcard please … Thanks Stephen (In case you think you've read this on the Minerva section, I moved it here as it seemed more appropriate.)

This is looking very nice. Not sure whether I can justify one on my proposed East Midlands ironstone layout ... ;-) Stephen

I had the chance to carry out a short visit to the area 10 days ago when my wife and I were visiting friends in Cambridge. The weather was pretty miserable but at least I was able to see some of the area and get a feel for the place. We stopped in Cogenhoe village with its new village sign , put up for the Millennium … … and drove down towards Cogenhoe Mill through what we assumed was the older part of the village near the church. We then carried on to Whiston … … with its attractive church on the hill overlooking the village. We then retraced our tracks back towards Cogenhoe and found the embankment for the narrow gauge rope-worked incline which ran from the quarry at The Firs down to the tipping dock on the standard gauge tramway near the Northampton to Grendon road. The white lines show the route of the incline. The narrow gauge incline and the tramway closed in the late 1880s. Today, there is a collection of workshops and other industrial buildings on the north side of what would have been a level crossing on the Cogenhoe-Grendon road. We could find no evidence of the route of the tramway as it ran across the road and onwards towards the ex-LNWR Northampton-Wellingborough line. We did speak to somebody who remembered the LNWR/LMS/BR main line before it closed in 1972 (it closed to passengers in 1964) and he even had a photo of a class 37 on track-lifting duty. He seemed somewhat amused that this couple should be wandering around rural Northamptonshire trying to find traces of an old mineral railway which closed about 130 years ago! However, he did seem impressed that I knew the correct pronunciation for ‘Cogenhoe’ but I did discover that ‘Whiston’ is pronounced Wish-ton and not Whist-on as in the card game. We then drove along the road between Brafield-on-the-Green to Whiston as I wanted to establish the area where the quarries would have been in my ‘revised’ history. We didn’t have time to follow any of the footpaths or bridleways but I got this view from the road and also a ‘pano’ of the general area. The first view shows the valley through which the railway would have run if quarries had been established in this area. It was a shame I didn’t have more time (or better weather) to investigate the area in greater depth but it was nevertheless a useful bit of research for the new layout.

Mark I also like Loddington. It’s one of those fascinating quarry railways that was converted from narrow gauge to standard gauge and, as you say, had really interesting exchange sidings with an adjacent loco shed and a disused narrow gauge tippler. BR locos and industrial shunters – what a great combination! Don’t get me started or I will be changing my layout! Thanks for posting the video. I had seen it before but had lost the link. I love the section with 1795 – what a beautiful loco. You can see why we both like that delightful MW. I had seen the 1795 preservation website; it would be great to see 1795 running again one day. I’ve tried to track down the original video/DVD of the link you posted. I think it is from the Ivo Peters Collection no.15 but the best I can find is “no longer available”. I’ll keep an eye open for a second-hand copy. Thanks again. Stephen

Andrew I'm finding the nine volumes by the late Mr Tonks to be absolutely invaluable. The depth of his research provides a fascinating insight into the development and operations of the East Midlands ironstone quarries, particularly the railways. I keep finding information and photos which give me new ideas and possibilities for the layout. As you say, very inspirational. Stephen

Whiston and Cogenhoe Quarries - the fiction Having established the ‘real’ history of the area, the following is the ‘what might have been’ or the ‘’revised’ history … In 1929, new iron ore deposits were discovered in an area southwest of the old Cogenhoe workings at the Firs and a 2 foot narrow gauge line was built from the new quarries to a loading dock on the old standard gauge mineral line which had served the Whiston quarries. Although this line had not been used since 1921, it had been retained in the hope of the quarries being activated at some stage. The exchange sidings on the LNWR main line (now LMS) had been removed but these were now reinstated for the new quarry traffic. In 1932, a new crushing plant was built at the site of the loading dock so that the ore was crushed before being transported to the furnaces at the steel works. A smaller crushing plant was built on the other side of the line. At the start of the Second World War, as with a number of other lapsed ironstone workings in the East Midlands, the quarries were extended in response to the wartime need for good quality iron ore for steel making. New ore deposits were discovered in areas southwest of the old Whiston workings and southeast of the Cogenhoe quarries. The standard gauge mineral line was extended westwards to serve the new quarries. At the crushing plants, further lines were laid into the reopened quarries and, at the junction with the line to the exchange sidings, a small yard was established along with a new engine shed and weighbridge. By 1960, the quarries west of the yard had been worked out and the line to these quarries was closed. At the same time, the crushing plants were decommissioned and the narrow gauge line was closed. All the ore was now worked from the quarries to the yard and then taken direct to the exchange sidings for onward transportation to the steel works. This is a detailed section of the 'modern' map showing the extent of the proposed layout.

Whiston and Cogenhoe Quarries - the facts It's time to add a bit of the history behind the proposed layout. First the facts. Whiston is a pretty little Northamptonshire village, located about 1¼ miles south of the A45 between Northampton and Wellingborough. To the west of Whiston is Cogenhoe (pronounced cook-nuh), a larger village and about 5 miles from the county town, Northampton. Both villages were associated with the ironstone industry; Cogenhoe from the mid-1850s and Whiston from 1914. However, ironstone workings did not survive very long – Cogenhoe’s quarries were closed in the late 1880s while Whiston’s lasted for less than a decade, closing in the early 1920s. The ironstone beds were part of a large area of Northampton Sand ironstone from the Lower Oolites which covers much of Rutland and Northamptonshire. Ironstone extraction started at Cogenhoe in 1858 on ‘The Firs’, an area of woodland between Cogenhoe and Whiston. A narrow gauge rope-worked incline ran to a tipping dock just south of the road between Cogenhoe and Grendon. This dock was served by a short standard gauge siding connected to the LNWR’s line from Northampton to Peterborough, between Billing and Castle Ashby stations. In about 1870, the siding was extended to serve a large quarry in an area due south of Cogenhoe. This quarry was linked to the standard gauge line by a gravity worked 2 foot gauge incline; the stone tubs were worked back to the quarry with horses. Horses were also used on the standard gauge line until they were replaced by two second-hand steam locomotives. One was a Manning Wardle 0-4-0ST which came from Denby Ironworks and the other a Stephenson 4-4-0T which had come from South Leicester Colliery. There were also mines at Cogenhoe, one of which, according to local lore, collapsed one lunchtime while the men were away having their midday meal. As well as operating lime kilns on the south side of the Whiston Road, Cogenhoe was also associated with brickworks north-east of the village. However, the economic depression of the late 1880s saw the end of both iron ore extraction and brick-making at Cogenhoe. In 1914, with the need for iron and steel for the war effort, new ironstone quarries were developed to the east of the old Cogenhoe workings on a spur of high ground southwest of Whiston. A standard gauge line was laid to the quarries from a new siding on the LNWR Northampton to Peterborough line roughly half way between the old Cogenhoe siding and Castle Ashby station. This was a steep line, starting at 1 in 20, easing to 1 in 30 as it turned southwest towards the quarries. A standard gauge Barclay 0-4-0 saddle tank was supplied new in 1914 and it was housed in a small engine shed about half way between the LNWR line and the quarries. Mechanical excavation using a Ruston Proctor steam Navvy was introduced in 1915. As well as extracting the iron ore, the overlying limestone was removed to be used as flux, as was ganister, a mineral used in blast furnaces. Whiston ore was sold to ironmasters in the Northeast and the North Midlands. The Whiston quarries had four different owners during their short existence. However, in March 1919, the quarries were acquired by Hunsbury Furnaces and it is assumed that from this date, the iron ore went to these furnaces. It is not entirely clear when production ceased at the Whiston quarries but it is thought to be between 1920 and 1922. The Barclay was transferred to Hunsbury Hill Ironworks in 1921.

Thanks Mark. I just hope I can capture the same character as Juniper Hill - it is still one of my favourites. And of course, you are absolutely right about the pronunciation of Cogenhoe. And so you should as a local! I only found out when researching the area but had no idea about Bozeat. Stephen

Chaz I've not been around on here much recently due to lots of other commitments so have been trying to catch up on your superb layout. And there's a lot to catch up on! Love the latest photos from the Fareham show, especially the low level shots. Stephen

Thanks. Stephen

Mike Close, but not close enough (as somebody once said ...). Stephen

Simon I was hesitant to include 'Cogenhoe' in the title of the new project due to the potential confusion over its pronunciation but as the quarries near the two villages were inextricably linked, I felt I had to include it. Not being local to the area, I discovered the correct pronunciation during my research of the quarries. Perhaps a 'prize' to the person who gets it right or comes up with the most imaginative answer? :-) Stephen

Chris - that's very kind of you, although the models themselves are the real stars. Without you and your colleagues at Ixion, I wouldn't have accumulated such an interesting and eclectic trio of locomotives. Usual disclaimer as well, although in my case, just a very satisfied customer. Stephen

Thanks for the nice comments guys. Stephen

It's a cool April morning in 1963 and the birds are in full song. We are in a small railway yard serving the ironstone quarries of the Whiston and Cogenhoe Ironstone Company in south Northamptonshire. The gentle hissing of a rather elderly saddle tank sitting in the yard adds a touch of harmony to this pastoral scene. This is Warrior, a Hudswell Clarke inside cylinder 0-6-0 saddle tank, used for the runs from the yard to the BR exchange sidings. Nearby sit Lance, a diminutive Fowler 0-4-0 diesel mechanical shunter and Jemima, a Manning Wardle outside cylinder 0-4-0 saddle tank. These two locos are used for the shorter runs to and from the quarries. The sound of a distant whistle interrupts the tranquillity and then the beat of another steam engine, this one working hard, becomes gradually louder. This is an attractive Peckett 0-4-0 saddle tank with half a dozen loaded ironstone tipplers from one of the quarries. The Peckett uncouples from its wagons as Warrior runs forward to couple up to the far end of the rake of tipplers. The Hudswell Clarke takes the wagons out past the now disused crushing plants before propelling the wagons over the weighbridge track. With a toot from its whistle and the last wagon clear of the weighbridge, Warrior pulls the loaded tipplers back past the crushers, heading for the exchange sidings. The birds are still singing, undisturbed by the hustle and bustle of this small yard and for the moment, peace descends on this bucolic corner of rural Northamptonshire. And so, the story begins … Now this photo is a bit of a cheat, as the ironstone layout is still no more than a few ideas and a sketch plan. It’s a photo I took of my trio of Ixion industrials on my 'Minimum Space O Gauge' layout before it was dismantled last year. I spotted it a few days ago going through my photos and gave it a bit of a retro look to use in this introduction to my new layout.

Mike I hope Paul is able to include 'sleeper creak' in the sound project. He put it on my Manning Wardle and it is very effective as the loco creeps over the track. Very authentic! Stephen

Paul did the sound installation on my Manning Wardle. The sound project is very good and Paul also installed 'stay alive' capability and a smoke generator! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89686-ixion-manning-wardle-0-4-0st/ Paul has since installed sound (and 'stay alive') in my Ixion Hudswell Clarke. I'm sure opening cylinder drain cocks will be included as a manual option. On both locos, the cylinder drain cocks also open before moving off if the loco has been standing for a given time. Not sure about the sound of a Mk 1 Cortina being scrunched, but Paul included a great birdsong sequence as a function on the MW. I'm sure seagulls would be equally effective! Stephen