Warspite

Giles Your RC work never ceases to amaze me. I've been trying to catch up on your thread and you just keep churning them out! Can't wait for the next project ... Stephen

Chris In the past I've used double-sided tape to attach the track to the foamboard. I used plasticine to provide a base for the weed strewn yard track which also helps to keep the track firmly in place. These pictures from the old layout show the foamboard track base with the plasticine layer before painting and weed planting. I’m glad you asked about point control as it was a question I was going to put to you. I have previously used Peco solenoid point motors (mounted under the point and with frog switching) but would prefer a servo operated ‘slow action’ device. When I was researching the Peco SmartSwitch system, I saw you had tried this. I also saw your YT video using the servo linked to a signal (looked very good, by the way). I like the idea of ‘plug and play’ functionality and the ability to control points with my NCE Powercab - I understand I would need to use a PLS135 (Stationary Decoder) to do that. I know other systems are available but I am looking for a simple, ‘all-in-one’ package. My electronic skills are probably even less accomplished than my carpentry skills! I would be interested to know what you think. Stephen

Chris On my previous layout, I used a simpler sub-base topped with a sandwich layer for the track bed: two 5mm foamboard layers sandwiching 25mm high supports. I used heavy Heljan diesels on that layout but I'm not intending to run anything much heavier than my Ixion and Minerva industrials on this one. The new sub-base has better bracing (see pic below) so a single layer of 5mm foamboard for the top surface should be sufficient. Hope this helps. Stephen

Thanks Tony. That's all I'm trying to achieve: to create the 'feel' of an ironstone quarry yard in the space I've got. More progress soon ... I hope. Stephen

I’ve finally got back to the layout planning stage. Although I haven’t had time to do any modelling in the last few months, I have done a lot of research using particularly my trusty collection of Eric Tonks’ books. In drawing up a suitable design, I’ve tried to combine some elements of a ‘typical’ ironstone quarry yard. Of course, there is no such thing as a ‘typical’ yard layout but like most industries, the ironstone yards developed through factors such as location, land formation, volume of traffic etc. However, one important factor which was significant for ironstone quarrying was the opening and closure of different quarry areas and how these affected the provision (and removal) of feeder tracks One premise I have adopted in my Whiston and Cogenhoe design is that the yard developed at the intersection of both the lines from the Cogenhoe quarries (west) and Whiston quarries (east) with the ‘main line’ to the exchange sidings with BR (formerly LMS). This was shown in the 1929-1970 map in post 6 above. I have assumed that the quarries to the west of the yard had been worked out by 1960 and the only active quarries are those to the east of the yard. In practical terms, I don’t have room for hidden sidings representing the tracks to the western quarries to the left of the layout. I had intended building primary and secondary crushers which would be non-working (disused) and placed to the right of the layout. They would act as vision blockers for the hidden sidings but I am now not convinced that the main running line would have run between them. My original design also used Peco curved turnouts but again I think it unlikely an ironstone quarry yard would have something as complex as curved turnouts … unless somebody knows different! I’m therefore using Y turnouts throughout which I think are probably better suited to an industrial yard and are of course more compact. I’m still undecided whether to include the disused crushing plant but for the moment have retained it to provide some interest on the left of the layout and balance the loco shed on the right. It would also provide a view blocker to the left hand back corner. However, I don’t want it to dominate the layout and an alternative would be to move the maintenance hut over more to the left. I wanted to include some of the features of the ironstone quarries I had researched. For instance, an engine shed between two working lines (Cranford) and a coal stage between the engine shed track and a siding holding coal wagons (also Cranford). Storefield had a slight variation in levels between the main running line and the engine shed and Blisworth had a fairly compact yard and single road engine shed, a weigh office with water tower behind and the fitting shop all in close proximity. I’ve drawn a new version of my ‘Whiston Quarries 1963’ plan showing how the layout fits into my ‘what might have been’ scenario. I am building a couple of rakes of 27T tipplers, both the original height variant and the slightly lower height wagons introduced from diagram 1/183 onwards. Rakes consist of just five tipplers, quite common at a number of quarries in the 1960s. Tonks has a photo of a train of four loaded tipplers at Blisworth with two locomotives, one pulling and one pushing! One limited flow will feature a rake of ex-LMS 20T hoppers that would have been loaded at the crushing plant when it was operational but have now been cascaded to quarry service. Operationally, loaded tipplers are brought into the yard from one of the ‘eastern’ quarries (top hidden siding). A loco runs from the shed and couples up to the rear of the loads. It brings these under the overbridge and then propels into the weighbridge siding. Before taking the loads to the exchange sidings, a train of empties enters the yard from the exchange sidings (bottom hidden siding). In the meantime, the ‘quarry loco’ has either gone ‘on shed’ or is waiting by the shed to collect the empties which have just arrived and will take these to the quarries. This process means that between four and six operational locos are required at busy times. There will also be light engine movements to and from the quarries. Many of the quarries had an eclectic and diverse stock of locomotives, Irchester being a good example with a mainly second hand fleet. Incidentally, Irchester also had an operational Ruston steam face shovel which was still working as late as 1967, another ‘prototype for everything’ example. Well, that’s the theory. I just have to start building something! I would really appreciate thoughts and observations on the layout design, both in terms of operational interest and visual balance. Stephen

A friend of ours has been sorting through her late father’s bits and pieces and found an old model station. She sent me a couple of photos (taken quickly on her iPhone) and the dimensions. Judging by the dimensions, I guessing O gauge, possibly home-made although the detail inside the shelter and the adverts suggests a paper kit? Has anybody any ideas? The dimensions are: Platforms - length 31”, width 14” Shelter – width 6.5”, height 5” Our friend says she is happy to pass it on to anybody who is interested and would love it to go to a good home. PM me if you are interested. Stephen

David On my proposed 7mm ironstone layout (set in the East Midlands), I'm using Dapol 'O Gauge Iron Ore Load' (ref.: 7S-000-002). Dapol describes it: “This kit contains real iron ore milled to represent iron ore at O Scale.” There are some variations in colour which aren't really showing in my photo of the Peco 27T tippler. As you are modelling in 4mm scale, you may be able to crush it to make it more suitable. Just an idea. Stephen

Paul The MW is sounding (and looking) great. I ordered a blue one with sound at Telford. All my Ixion/Minerva industrials have DCC sound including the delightful Ixion Manning Wardle H class to which you added sound (and headlight and smoke!) for me back in 2014. Linking the buffer clanking and flange sounds to the start/stop and speed of the loco is a great addition and very welcome. For somebody like me who is all 'fingers and thumbs', pressing the right F key to stop the buffers/flange sound at the same time as stopping the loco can be quite challenging! By the way, can the same facility be added to the sleeper creak function? Looking forward to seeing more clips. Best regards Stephen

On the subject of NCB brakevans, the September 2018 issue of Railway Bylines has a photograph of an NCB brake van at Gartshore Colliery, taken on 11 March 1967. The notes writer (the Clydesider) is asking about the parentage of this van, which has 'NCB No. 1' in white on the side. For anybody interested, the photo is in an article called 'Scottish Miscellany' on page 486. Stephen

Jinty You're really not helping me. There's me trying to concentrate on developing my early '60s ironstone layout and you show these stunning modern image wagons with the most sublime weathering. Must resist, must resist ... Stephen

Love the variations in weathering. Absolutely stunning. Stephen

It is very remiss of me that I haven’t posted a review of my 'DIG IT' day at the Rocks by Rail Museum in Rutland last year. I know this is not a 'modelling' topic but it is 'Industrial' so I thought it appropriate to post here. Many of you will be aware of this museum near the village of Cottesmore, formerly known as the Rutland Railway Museum. They have successfully run their ‘DIG IT’ driver experience days for some time but due to the amount of work involved in completing their new exhibition building, they had been unable to run one for a couple of years. Some of you may have already been to one of these days, but this is my experience of a ‘DIG IT’ last year. The day started at 8.30 with introductions, a safety briefing and an excellent cup of coffee in the museum’s Sundew Café. My wife was able to accompany me to take some photographs and I have included some of these here. We were introduced to our instructors and then walked down to the yard to start our initial tasks. For those who don’t know, the ‘DIG IT’ day is more than just a driving day. Four activities are involved: operation of the face shovel, shunting, firing and driving, with 90 minutes allocated for each task and each participant carrying out each activity in turn. My first task was working the face shovel. This is a Ruston Bucyrus 22RB diesel model. As there is no tippler or unloading hopper at the museum, there is no way they can empty loaded wagons so the face shovel task involves operating the shovel in all its modes and simulating the wagon loading process. You might think this is straightforward but it’s a bit like ‘rubbing you tummy whilst patting your head’ and I ended up having the bucket swinging in all directions until I had mastered synchronising the levers! Whilst I was working the face shovel, my ‘mate’ for the day was undertaking duties in the yard with the hopper wagons. These were being shunted by ‘SIR THOMAS ROYDEN’, a 1940 Andrew Barclay 0-4-0ST (works number 2088) which was being fired and driven by the other participants, two Swiss guys on a railway holiday, under the tuition of Andy. For the second half of the morning, I moved to the shunting task or, in ironstone quarry parlance, being the ‘rope runner’ under the expert tutelage of my shunting instructor. I learnt all the necessary hand signals, operated the points, used the brake stick and had to master coupling and uncoupling the hopper wagons as they were shunted to and from the loading siding. I realised there is a real skill to using a shunting pole, getting the pole balanced on top of the wagon buffer to lever the heavy three link coupling. It took quite a few attempts to get it right. At the end of morning shunting sessions, we had a couple of runs to and from the far (west) end of the line to give each of the Swiss guys the chance to have a good run with the Barclay bringing a rake of ironstone tipplers and a couple of brake vans up the gradient to the yard. Following an excellent lunch in the Sundew Café, it was our turn to fire and drive the Barclay. I went first on the driving task with my mate firing. Andy is an excellent instructor and explained all the main controls, including reverser, regulator, cylinder cocks, steam brake, hand brake and whistle. For someone who had never driven a steam locomotive, there was a lot to take in but Andy was very patient and good humoured and in a very short time, I was completely in charge of driving the locomotive. I came to appreciate how well designed this little industrial locomotive was with reverser, regulator, floor mounted lever for cylinder cocks and hand brake (behind the driver) all well positioned. Others will be very familiar with the layout of a steam loco cab but this was, of course, all new to me. Many people have described a steam locomotive having character and personality of its own and I can now see why. I came to realise that driving a steam locomotive is a very tactile experience with surprising sensitivity. After a very enjoyable session shunting ironstone hoppers round the yard, watching the boiler pressure, observing hand signals and understanding the effect of gradients and driving with wagons attached or light engine, it was time to swap roles. Firing was much more arduous than I expected! Andy was an excellent instructor again and I soon learnt which part of the firebox to fire and how and when to use the injector. You soon realise how hot the cab of a steam locomotive really is. I also appreciated the need to keep the footplate clean and tidy even though the little Barclay didn’t have much space for coal and it tends to spill everywhere when you are not very proficient in handling a shovel! After my mate’s turn of shunting wagons in the yard, she was able to bring the tipplers up from the west end of the line before it was my chance to bring the tipplers from the west end to the yard for the final run of the day. This was the highlight for me, bringing the short train of three tipplers and two brake vans up the gradient, with the lovely little Barclay barking away. The day finished with the disposal of the locomotive and then tea and presentation of certificates in the café. Driving was obviously the most exhilarating part of the day but that doesn’t take away from the enjoyment I had with the other activities. This makes the Rocks by Rail day different to most ‘Driver Experience Days’ and at £200 for a full day including lunch and other refreshments, I thought this represented good value. All the volunteers at the museum are enthusiastic and very friendly and I can highly recommend the experience if you get the opportunity. Stephen

Andy Just catching up with things as I haven't been on here in a while ... Your layout building is incredibly prolific. You must have built about a dozen since I started planning my latest... and I still haven't laid a single bit of track! Keep up the great work. Stephen

My wife also took some photos, including some of layouts I missed. I actually think some of hers are better than mine, which is often the case! Lough Engine Shed Mill Bank Alley Newhurst St Martin's Wharf Staindrop Stanfording Thorne Hill Colliery Stephen

Sorry to be a bit late to the party but I’ve only just finished going through my pictures. I always enjoy Guildex and this year was no exception. Good range of traders and interesting mix of layouts. The event certainly helped to provide some much needed inspiration. I’ve generally found taking photos at Guildex much easier than at some other shows and I had no problems again this year. I’m always concerned about getting in people’s way but everybody was very courteous and helpful. I need to thank all the layout operators who willingly gave their permission for me to take photos of their layouts and many offered to shunt a loco or wagon to a convenient point for a good portrait. I’m sorry I didn’t manage to get a decent photo of every layout. That was entirely my fault with camera settings rather than the layouts themselves! It's only when you get home do you realise what you've missed. Chelagasa Town Hyde Lane SP Lough Engine Shed Newhurst St Martin's Wharf Staindrop Stanfording Stodden Hundreds Thorne Hill Colliery Stephen

I cannot believe that it is nearly two years since I last posted something on my embryonic East Midlands ironstone layout. Those of you who have been with me so far will know that I dismantled my previous ‘minimum space’ layout to make way for some rather significant building work at home. The building work was completed on schedule (so no excuse there) and a new ‘shared’ study/railway room was one happy outcome. However, life has been somewhat hectic in the intervening months with many time-consuming distractions. When the building work was completed, I had a 3650mm x 910mm (12’ x 3’) steel frame fabricated and a lighting valance (with hidden LED lights) fixed to the sloping ceiling. The white polystyrene edging under the frame is to protect my head when retrieving things dropped on the floor! The frame is 50” from the floor and, with a foamboard sub-base, rail height will be 57” from the floor which should give a realistic viewing height. I’ve used 5mm foamboard before and found it strong and light as long as the supporting base is solid. The sub-base slopes down at the front to provide some variation in the terrain and draw the eye into the layout. That's the idea, anyway. I started drawing up some layout designs last year and even made up a 1/10th scale mock-up but it didn’t look right. That, combined with a lack of time and other priorities meant that further work came to a grinding halt. It takes something like this year’s Guildex to rekindle the enthusiasm. Mind you, I did go to Telford last year and came back home with some goodies but other things got in the way again and there was still no further progress. This time I’m determined to make some headway with the layout and have started to develop another design. More progress reports soon … I hope! Stephen

My DCC sound fitted Victory arrived yesterday, earlier than I expected. The only trouble is my wife won't let me open it until Christmas Day! D'oh! Well done Minerva. I'm sure it will be a cracking model ... when I get to see it!

John I’m glad you’ve raised the question of NCB liveries on the NCB ‘Victory’ locos. My “what might have been” scenario and somewhat dubious justification for adding a ‘Victory’ to my fleet of ironstone locomotives was outlined on my Whiston & Cogenhoe thread …. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/110560-whiston-and-cogenhoe-quarries/page-2 I chose 3075 as it was ‘Rothervale No.8’ at United Steel and Coal Co. before that company’s mining and coking operations were split on the nationalisation of the coal industry in 1947. Instead of being scrapped in 1956, my alternative history assumes it was transferred to Bagthorpe Colliery (fictional) before moving to Whiston & Cogenhoe ironstone quarries in 1959. I have also been trying to find out what colour the NCB ‘Victory’ locos might have been. I have seen ‘Francis’ in black before (probably on here) but can only assume that individual NCB areas or even individual collieries chose their own colour schemes? Industrial Railways in Colour – The North East’ includes a lot of NCB locos in a variety of colour schemes. Many seem to have either black or dark blue paintwork with red buffer beams and rods, some with red lining. Some even have fully lined blue paintwork (with cream or yellow lining). Dark red with yellow lining and bright yellow all over also featured. In some areas, green is the predominant colour. In the South Wales albums of the same series, green with red buffer beams and rods seem to be the most widely used colour although blue (light and dark) also features. Of course, in many cases, locos are covered in grime and it is very difficult to even guess what the colour is! In the Scotland album, green seems the commonest colour although dark blue and black also feature depending on the area/colliery. Of course, this is very limited research from a very small sample of colour photos and it would seem to be best to base the colour on your actual prototype. I just wish I knew the colour of ‘Rothervale No.8’! Stephen

Tony Very nice. Good to see vinyl still out there. I must dig out my old Transacord LPs, although sadly nothing industrial. Stephen

Hi Paul Thanks for the link to the Ivo Peters video. It is even better than I expected – absolutely wonderful! There is so much quality footage there and it’s interesting that the ‘special advisor’ was no other than Eric Tonks. It’s a shame the online video doesn’t do it justice. I’ll just have to keep trying to get a copy of the VHS version. The Storefield section was especially good. I realised Storefield’s ‘real’ history (quarries disused, then reopened for the war effort) was very similar to my ‘revised’ history for W&C. It could be what inspired me. Short loaded trains (just 3 and 4 wagons in two of the ones shown) and a Wolseley 1500 as well! And, of course, a cracking Peckett (COCKSPUR) very similar to my Minerva one. Another interesting detail was that I spotted a couple of 21T unfitted coal hoppers at Wroxton, mixed with the regular ironstone hoppers. I also noticed some sequences with 16T unfitted mineral wagons (for example at Pitsford) but I'm not sure whether they were for loco coal rather than iron ore. Finally, there is a wonderful sequence at Cranford with CRANFORD propelling a rake of 27T tipplers in a setting just being asked to be modelled! Thanks also for the fascinating information about the dump cars. Of course, the inclusion of dump cars would give me a legitimate reason to fit buckeye couplers (Kadees) to my locos for hands-free coupling/uncoupling. However, having buckeye couplers on the 27t tipplers would be somewhat incongruous. The tipplers are likely to be shunted in rakes so I would still be able to have 3 links on the ‘inside’ wagons but I still don’t think having Kadees on the ‘outer’ wagons would look right. Looking forward to seeing your 4mm ironstone layout. Thanks again. Stephen

Jonathan I missed this when you posted it before and I'm really impressed with what you are doing. After looking up ‘Bloxham Quarries’ in volume 2 of the Eric Tonks series, I didn’t realise that in December 1917, the company’s name changed to the Bloxham & Whiston Ironstone Co. Ltd. “with the acquisition of the Whiston quarries near Castle Ashby”. Whiston and nearby Cogenhoe Quarries are the basis of my own ironstone layout, currently being developed. Eric Tonks did refer to the acquisition in the Whiston Quarries section (in volume 3) but I didn’t make the connection with your layout. I just love the colours and textures you are achieving with your scenic work. Stephen

Well I've managed to justify one and I've placed my order for a green one. Mind you, that is one big loco. I'll just have to redesign the engine shed to accommodate it! Stephen

That's what I call good service ... I'd also be interested in seeing one made up and how well it works on your layout. After all, it only "assembles in 15 minutes" according to the packaging! Stephen

Thanks Dave. The only reference I could find was on the Wolverton Rail website which listed this volume as "VHS only" and sadly "no longer available". It's very frustrating as the list of contents is just what I have been looking for, covering many of the quarries I have been researching. I still have a VHS player but doubt I'll be able to get a copy from anywhere and I couldn't find anything on the usual search engines. I had thought about including dump cars on the layout but no 7mm kit is available and I don't think I have the skills to scratch build one, let alone half a dozen! However, Robert Thompson has said he will release a 7mm scale version after he has released the 4mm version* so I will keep my options open. (* From the thread on dump cars on the 'UK Standard Gauge Industrial modelling' section.) I am currently planning to include disused crushing plants on my track plan but these could be 'working' plants if Robert releases the 7mm version. Whether they could be 'working' dump cars remains to be seen as that would certainly challenge my skill level! Thanks again. Stephen

Sam - I've just enjoyed reading through the whole thread and I'm really impressed with your ingenuity and skill. Keep up the great work! Regards Stephen