LNER4479

Well it was an interesting visit, to say the least! First of all thanks to Mr Ducky and Mrs Ducky for their hospitality during my extended visit. Well, it's progress Jim, but not perhaps as we know it. Next time - assuming I was well-behaved enough to get invited back? - we can start talking about control panels and lever frames. Our feathered friend still hasn't quite got the hang of them frog juicers. Next time, I might have a serious question - but I might have to go and have a lie down first. (No caterpillars or teddy bears were harmed in the compilation of this post)

Pardon?

Bring a sleeping bag with you then cos you'll be sleeping in the shed garage

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Totties,+Holmfirth+HD9+1UW/@53.5698097,-1.781664,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x487bda1657397937:0x2cc1985ac4ffa51a!8m2!3d53.5698115!4d-1.7641544 Nowt so kweer as...

I'll bring my mankini with me, just in case... Bo Rat

Stringing not very practical for an exhibition layout without installing and removing the entire run on each occasion. Another aspect that you may not have spotted (cos it hasn't really been photographed yet!) is that we have used some N gauge poles in places to fit in with the forced perspective idea. This shows up quite well on a couple of the Chris Nervard pictures recently taken. His photos are of course embargoed until the mag gets published; however I don't think I'm giving too much away by posting this crop of one of them as it otherwise shows the effect quite well - the rear three poles are the N gauge ones!

For a moment there I thought you'd gone walkabout...

Second question I'm stumped on! All I know is that it is based on a photo in the Ivo Peters book of such a train at Shap Wells. The vehicles themselves are the work of Tom Dewdney (LMS29 on here). His models are based on traffic in the Ilkley area so it may well actually be the train you describe.

Oo-er - I'm going to have to ask the scenery consultant on that one! I think they might be the Ratio ones, with a few modifications. I'll get back to you.

Well, now, that's a more interesting question than it first appears. I have just spent an enjoyable 20 mins looking through my reference material for the line, two separate references both state the following: Prior to the First World War (possibly even to grouping), the Hawes Junction (Garsdale) to Hawes section was 100% worked by NER locos. The 'Boniface' (quoted as 'Bonnyface' in the books I have) was a service from Hellifield to Hawes Junction, which connected with the NER services there. In that era, there was a small NER loco shed at Hawes Junction (it burned down in 1917) and a NER loco was stabled there overnight (presumably stock also?) to work the first eastbound train of the day. The separate Garsdale-Hawes (rtn) service appears in the timetables from the LMS era onwards. Hellifield shed had mainly 4-4-0s allocated (fancy that!) pre-WWI for passenger services although a few of the older 2-4-0s were still there at that time so the service could well have been worked by those. Whilst looking through said reference material, I have also come across - shock, horror! - a 1958 Gavin Morrison photo of 42051 on said service taking water at the SOUTH end of the branch platform, with the rear of its train standing on the trailing points of the Up mainline. So it looks for all the world as if - on that day at least - the train accessed the branch by propelling over the crossover at the south end of the station.

I am fairly certain that was how it was done. I have a picture of the train at Garsdale with the coaches stabled in the branch platform whilst the loco is on the turntable - having propelled across the north crossover, it could then unhook and go straight back across and into the down loop, where the turntable road was sited. Thus turned, it would be bunker first for the easy drop down towards Hawes and right way round again for the stiff climb back up again and the remainder of its journey back to ?? sometimes Hellifield, latterly Bradford (I think). Didn't always work out that way as I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one picture with the loco facing north (or east) on the Garsdale-Hawes stretch. A more awkward move to turn round at Garsdale on the way back, for sure.

Certainly did David. 'Twas a while ago mind - Feb 2005 issue (Vol.56, issue 652). Happy to post a brief resume on here if it is of interest.

I think another aspect here is that, pre-war, these wagons - or at least the ones we were interested in on Grantham - were private owner and hence run in dedicated rakes for the steel works concerned (others please feel free to correct me here). In a similar manner to the better known coal private owner wagons, everything was requisitioned to help the war effort and never went back to PO after the war, becoming a common pool, hence the post-war ram-shackle nature . If you look closely at some of these 1950's pictures, you can see one or two of the Appleby-Frodingham 'peak ended' wagons (as Graeme refers to them) also dotted around in the trains, eg wagons 3 and 4 in Clem's picture from last night.

Indeed. Our research showed that, pre-war, the rakes were very uniform, with dedicated services to Appleby-Frodingham (Scunthorpe), Stanton (Staveley) and Parkgate (Rotherham). Graeme's masterpiece is based on a striking photo of a rake of the Appleby-Frodingham empties at Saltersford heading towards High Dyke with, of all things, a D2 4-4-0 in charge. There is also a photo in the Cawston book of an O4 heading through Grantham with an equally uniform rake of Stanton hoppers (different design). It appears that, with the dramatic upturn in traffic in the build up to the war, every available wagon was pressed into service (pictures at the quarry at that time show even NE 20T wooden hoppers in use). Thus began the era of the 'rag bag' rakes, as you illustrate - very much therefore a wartime-into-early BR era thing. Although a little grainy, there are some similar images on Dave F's wonderful thread featuring his father's pictures which is so kindly available to all:

Altogether now: ...Up above the streets and the houses, rainbow in the sky...

...and as a complete rake:

...and even they were only installed during the war. They were a contributory factor in the spectacular derailment of the southbound Thames-Clyde express there in the early 1950s, a rather prophetic way of illustrating the Midland Railway's near paranoia about such things!

Thanks Tony for highlighting these. For interest, they both equate to about 50% compression - but we run shorter length trains to compensate. Grantham station will take a nine coach rake of teaks (just!); in reality, the longest platform would take 18 (I think it was). I was clear from the outset that I didn't want the station to dominate the whole layout as there was plenty of interesting operational activity to depict both north and south of the station so I tried to balance the thing accordingly. Shap's a little looser in scale plus the fact that we're merging several different scenes together but, again, we're running shorter length trains than the real thing (your A4 with 10 bogies is the largest passenger train although the parcels train is equivalent of 12) which hopefully helps the trains 'fit' into the landscape. It's only when you stop to actually count the wagons that you realise there's a bit of a fiddle going on!

Don't automatically assume that ballast came from the local area. Ballast came (and indeed still does come) from source quarries that yield stone of the right sort of qualities and can be transported some distance. Apparently (according to a interestin' article what I once read), the LNER used a quarry in the north east which was quite a pale stone colour. How far that was distributed round the system I don't know but I think it could be quite a distance. And they'd certainly use the best stuff for their prime mainline. Note also that it was only the passenger lines that had the best ballast and was 'manicured', dependent on the enthusiasm of the local gang. All other lines would have stuff of a lesser quality, even spent ash, etc. So a contrast between the two ECML prime running lines and the others would be something to consider. Of course, all ballast soon weathers and acquires a patina of dirt, oil etc so I guess it depends what exactly you want to depict. Study of pictures is always the best bet but, having said that, pre-war colour pictures are few and far between!

Had visitors in the week. Prior to their arrival, been working through the post-Warley 'to do' list. Here, we're planting the telegraph poles 'for keeps' (with a fair stock of spares for the inevitable casualties to come). Telegraph poles are a lot further apart than you think - these are about 70% of the spacing they should be. Compromise?Compression? More a case of what looked and felt right. And here is one of the hobby's top photters in action. Bloomin' hot under those lights! A chance to feature a couple of trains that went in front of the cameras. This is based on a picture in the Ivo Peters book of a block cement train at Shap Wells. Perhaps the liveries are a touch too varied but a distinctive train nonetheless. Another block train, this time featuring Tom Dewdney's recreated Ammonia tank wagon train - again, a train featured in the Ivo Peters book. My old Margate 9F makes an appearance. Here, our intrepid photographer has taken up a highly hazardous viewpoint to capture 45562 'Alberta' at the summit with the 'Border Countryman' railtour of 25th Feb 1967. Not readily apparent but the left hand-most signal (just below Barry's nose!) is the new, LNWR-style, one controlling exit from the up loop. So all this burst of excitement was to host the Model Rail team who are planning to run a 1968 end of steam theme in a forthcoming issue. It's been good to have the layout up and running again and it'll be interesting to see another photographer's take on the layout.

Of all the gin joints in all of the world he had to walk into mine...

Try telling Chaikow ... Tcheyecough ... Tschiskow ... that Russian music fella the news C. Huckleberry

Like this you mean? (Aug. 1983 on its then regular 10:40 working over S&C. I'd been on a bit of a bike ride, hence the velocipede in shot)

My extremely modest 'gig' haul nevertheless includes seeing 'Macca' twice, first time at King's Dock Liverpool approx. 1990 in Linda days. Heady mix of Beatles and Wings numbers. Others include the Quo at Manchester Central (G-Mex as it was at the time) - great venue! After that it deteriorates rapidly, although Showaddywaddy were great fun closing the St Helens show! Can I also mention seeing Spike Milligan on his farewell tour in the Manchester in 1983? He did do a few songs as part of the show. Another great hero of mine. We went to see him back stage after the show. 'I'm your biggest fan' I said. 'Nonsense', he retorted; 'That fella there is at least 3 inches taller than you'. Great to see progress on the incline, Mr Duck! Do I detect the first flowering of scenery in those parts?

Those sheep can be a pretty fearsome lot - they clearly don't like people using 'their' railway. Line gets even more impressive as it gets towards Garsdale. I guess this is the line's most spectacular structure - but the Midland Railway were responsible for this one. I envy my stepfather (and those of his generation) who once went on a railtour (1955) from Manchester, out via Blackburn, Hellifield, Sedburgh to Tebay. Thence to Kirkby Stephen and over the Stainmore route to Darlington. Quick sprint down to Northallerton then home via the Wensleydale branch to Garsdale and down S&C to Hellifield. What price a day out by rail like that today? Just working on the plan now; aiming to get it to you in next few days