LNER4479

Hi Iain, Fortunately, I have been able to put my hands on the 1937 Railway Gazette article more or less straightaway so please find enclosed for you (and others) to enjoy. RG article.pdf Trackplan.pdf Unfortunately, in my youthful naive-ity I only kept the pages that interested me(!) but it was fortunate that they chose Camden as a 'sample' depot... Although a full 25 years prior to your era, the pictures give some good general depot detail. And just look how tidy everything is!

Alas no, Dr G-F! I think it's time for the soldering iron and copper clad sleepers to fit a 'super scissors' within 11' 2" track centres. However, my version does fit nicely within the wider 15' 2" ('10 foot') track spacing (ie where there are more than two running lines). You might not have spotted it yet, but there is another one on the layout alongside South Box (there were two there on the real thing!) and this does indeed fit in the space between the Down Fast and Down Relief lines. Jukebox has also asked for some details on point modifications so I'll sort out a further posting in due course but it might be a few weeks yet as the layout isn't set up just at this moment. If I could exhibit Grantham tomorrow then I'd be there! In reality, I think it will be some 18 months minimum before the layout is anything like ready for public display. The pictures showing the full layout were taken in April this year when it was assembled for the first time for test running as a complete layout. Top of my 'to do' list at the moment is: 1) North end Up side bay platforms (yes Jonny777, that's the Lincoln bay), which I believe was the old No.1 platform; there will also be the horse landing (short platform) alongside it, as I'm planning to replicate attachment and detachment of horseboxes from the back of trains. 2) Construct the final depot board, get turntable up and running to give at least the bare bones of an operational MPD 3) Install the two main southbound junction signals at North Box (one for ECML, one for Nottingham lines); both were somersaults in the 1930's. That might not sound like much but the associated wiring and relay panels that go with them will pretty much sort out the remaining interlocking and control logic for North Box. I have to do wiring in little bite-size chunks at a time as it's my least favourite aspect of the hobby (although it can be quite rewarding when it all 'works') 4) At least some basic scenic ground cover between Harlaxton Road bridge and the respective tunnel mouths at the north end of the layout. So, as you can see, plenty to be going at in the immediate future! I might however, if the opportunity presents itself, look to do a further private trial running session again so that might provide an opportunity for viewing. Keep watching this space (but not too hard!)

Well said t-b-g! (and thanks) Yes, I too have stood by many a barrier at an exhibition or read many an article in a magazine and found that what I would call the straight-curve-straight-curve approach is the thing that 'jars' (although there may be some beautiful modelling around it). From what I've read over the years, it is the alignment of the main running lines that is key and the civil engineer will set out that alignment to give the smoothest ride for the trains that run over it. This is not only in consideration of the comfort of passengers but also the security of the goods being transported - the civil engineer also has a vested interest in that trains that run smoothly over his track don't bash it about that much! Having set out the alignment of the main running lines then all subsidiary lines and sidings fit in around it. It is they therefore that should have the sharp reverse curves in, as these tracks are of less priority as speeds will be much lower. The mainlines through Grantham had about a 70mph speed limit by the time the streamliners came along (I believe) so a smooth alignment would have been a must. Hence on the model the setting out of the alignment pins (as I have described) to ensure this is replicated. As you so eloquently point out, to have the 'Coronation' train wiggling about all over the place as it speeds through Grantham would destroy the illusion! Thanks for your and other folks comments on this subject; glad it is of interest.

Looks like you're building one of my many 'pipe dream' layouts from over the years! Many years ago, my father acquired some old copies of the Railway Gazette (dated 1937). One of these had an article about modernisation of LMS loco sheds and contained a wonderful pull out diagram featuring three depots that were part of the program - Camden, Longsight and Derby. There were also detailed drawings of the coaling and ashplant towers. I remember pouring over the details for hours and imagining 'what if'. Camden always seemed to be the one of the three that was attainable in model form as it was (is!) quite a compact site, considering the fantastic allocation that was based there. Looks like a fantastic layout in the making; certainly the appearance of the trackwork completed so far is very convincing, with obvious care to get the ballast looking 'right'. You're in a different league to me when it comes to building the track (points). Despite my current project being from a different era/region, my long term intention is to return to a BR (LMR) steam era prototype so I hope to follow your progress with interest. LNER4479 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58826-grantham-the-streamliner-years/ (Just passed Camden on my Pendolino - alas not a Duchess or Royal Scot to be seen!)

Thank you Dr Gerbil-Fritters for this and your other kind comments. Yes I agree with you about basing a trackplan on the protoype. It is fascinating to research and observe how track plans varied between different railway companies and evolved over time. Certainly the configurations of today can be very different to 70-80 years ago so it is important to research carefully to relicate the correct look of the era. In response to your request, here are some further views. The photo quality is a little inferior but it should show the details of the track plan. This is a close up of the junctions by North Box. This is the pre-war layout; it was simplified post-war to a plain double junction (which illustrates well the above point). The heart of it is two single slips, arranged in the trailing direction (as was the normal convention - facing points on mainlines used to be avoided unless absolutely necessary). I have introduced a slight curve in these (it is possible, by cutting away selective pieces of the webbing underneath the point) to maintain the smooth flow of the curve. Alongside the box are two Y-points. In this case, the nearest one has to be facing as this is a diverging junction. On the left hand side, I have laid out temporarily how the pointwork has been designed to depict the bay platforms on this side, although in this case there will be a considerable reduction on the amount of trackwork that there was in this area on the real thing. Moving further towards the station, this shows the rather delightful 'scissors' arrangement between the box and the station. In this case, I have been able to replicate the exact layout here. You can see no less that three double slips in this area. The handmade crossing that I showed above can clearly be seen and, because I was able to construct it exactly to fit, it gives a lovely straight alignment out of the bay platform to pick up the Nottingham route out of the station. Alongside the bay platform, to the right, you can see a Gresley pacific occupying the engine siding. This is where a relieving loco would wait, pending a north-bound loco change, so - yes - it is the intention to depict the engine changes. In the background, the rear-most double slip provides one of two access points to the depot area. Talking of which, here is the depot, or at least the rather limited work I have done on it to date. The afore-mentioned double slip is extreme bottom left and following that there is a rather gorgeous 'super scissors' arrangement. It seems rather over-elaborate but it was clearly there in pictures which just goes to show that many a depot yard was anything but a simple 'ladder' of points. In the middle of it is a standard Peco 'short' crossing which has been heavily butchered (along with the corresponding legs of other four associated points) to make this arrangement as compact as possible. The turntable well can clearly be seen with its access road being the yet-to-be-laid spur off the right hand leg of the three-way point. You are quite correct about the turning triangle post-war. Apparently, the foundations of this turntable (remarkably one of four that existed at various times at the Grantham depot site) collapsed in 1950 and the installation of a triangle was apparently the simplest alternative option, as there was spare land available. But being pre-war, I'm OK with the turntable (a triangle would be a serious challenge space wise on a model!). Beyond that, where there is a lighter coloured area, there will be a depiction of the old shed building. This was actually a four-road structure - but I'm only going to build it as a two-road shed (compromise again). This building was demolished after the war but again I'm OK with it being the 1930's. Opposite this (to the right) will be the coaling stage and in the distance there is a board I have yet to build which will feature the 'new' shed. Again this was a four-road building. I've got my eye on the Townstreet resin kit (to save a bit of time) which is suitable for three-roads; another compromise which should keep things in proportion. I calculate that I should be able to get 24 locos on my depot before it gets 'bunged up'; I think that should be enough! Hope this helps understand some more of the details; like you it seems, I could talk trackplans all night!

Thanks for further kind comments over last few days. Several have commented on use of Peco trackwork etc, so I thought I'd post a few details. First of all, all track and ballast is painted (sprayed) before laying. Here are a couple of lengths of underlay have been sprayed as a prelude to track laying. Yes, that is Peascliffe tunnel entrance to be. The colour used is 'ancient white' (or 'off white' if you like). It is intended to represent the colour of ballast when it is freshly laid, straight out of the quarry. Of course the colour of ballast does vary greatly but photographic evidence seems to indicate that light grey is a good base to build up the weathering colours on top of. Why use of the foam ballast? Well speed is certainly one factor. I also like the lovely smooth 'whoosh' of a train moving past at speed that you get. Finally, the precise shape of the foam for me quite closely matches the carefully manicured ballast shoulder that was a trademarked of hand maintained trackwork in steam days (quite different from the appearance today) Meanwhile, here's some track being sprayed a dark brown colour (outside of course, plenty of natural ventilation). Aargh! Doesn't it get in all the point blades etc? Well, it does to some extent. I prefer to wait till it's dry then the running surface can be scraped off easily enough, followed by a piece of emery cloth between the point blade and stock rail. Usually that does the trick; any additional cleaning is done as necessary when test running. The other thing I do is to modify pointwork so as to maintain a standard 11' 2" (@45mm) track centre; standard Peco pointwork gives 'too wide' 50mm track centres. Feel free to point out the exceptions to the rule (former GW broad gauge routes are the obvious examples) but I do believe that the extra work involved is rewarded in helping create the prototypical look of UK double track mainlines (especially as OO is slightly narrow gauge anyway). Here are the above two points, now installed as the facing cross-over off the Nottingham branch. All pointwork on the layout uses the standard Peco products - apart from this one! This is the crossing just off the north end of the down (northbound) platforms. No amount of juggling the track would allow a standard product to be used so I soldered this up from code 100 rail and copper clad sleepers. Sprayed as above it blends in remarkably well. The final aspect is track alignment. Here I adopt a method involving knocking in 15mm panel pins in the centre of the trackbed every six inches and then lay the track up against these. What I'm doing here is to measure the offset of each pin from its neighbours. As a first pass, this will produce an uneven alignment; but by juggling each pin and re-measuring eventually a smooth alignment results. This is the alignment of the Nottingham lines as they curve away from the East Coast Mainline (just visible on the extreme right). Whereas a straight alignment is simplicity itself, the human eyeball isn't quite as good when it comes to curves! I find this method allows lovely smooth curves and transitions to be mapped out. Tracklaying is then simplicity itself, I just use this simple wood template to position the track at the correct position relative to the panel pin, drill and fix with a Peco track pin. In some cases, I've had to temporarily remove track and relay - usually the track pin goes straight back into its original hole! The second line of the double track is then laid to maintain the 45mm track centre. Even simpler. And so, putting it all together: An Atlantic heads takes the Nottingham road out of Grantham, over the tracks that I showed being laid earlier. There are some lovely 'sweeps' at this (north) end of the layout to contrast with the arrow straight alignment from the south. The stock is a pair of Kirk articulated twins, formed up as Brake(4) Third - All third + Lavatory Composite - Brake(5) Third, a classic LNER non-corridor four car formation (although in truth a little too 'posh' for the Nottingham services of the 1930s!) This view shows a K3 taking the 'Up' slow line having passed through the station with a long coal train. In the immediate foreground, the central space between the two lengths of Peco foam underlay has been filled in level with fine ballast. This further aids appearance. However, it is crying out for weathering! I also think I'll snip off all those pips on the end of the point bars. This also shows that I am only using the foam for the main running lines, as the less important lines were less well tended. The tracks either side are therefore laid on 3mm cork (painted dark grey). I think it doesn't look too bad as it is but some light ballasting will be applied to help blend in. The ground signal is of the 'rotating head' type. It has the signal box lever number (12) marked on it (this is something I've observed from period photos) - and it works. Hope all this is of interest and gives some idea of what lies behind the trackwork. I don't claim it to be especially clever or that it might to everyone's taste; it's just the way I've come to make use of the Peco system after nearly 30 years of practice. Happy to respond to any comments folks may have. 'Robert'

Just a quick post re track plan (Grantham Diagram - Signalling.pdf). This is only diagrammatic (for signalling) so does not shows sidings or depot. I do have a scale track plan half drawn but it is quite long and thin! I'll see if I can draw up something suitable for posting. Thanks LNERGE for South box diagram. You can see from the attached diagram how my junctions at the south end are something of a compromise compared to the other two boxes. Even with compromise it's complex enough(!) and allows most of the prototypical moves to be made. Your diagram handy for signals, even though it looks to be a more modern era (with the inevitable 'whitening out' of former lines).

Grantham in the 1930's (just to be a bit different) Full posting in the layout topics area: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58826-grantham-the-streamliner-years/

Thanks all for further comments and encouragement. I'll try and answer each specific point in turn. Yes, Mike, I've seen other Grantham posting and also chanced on the thread on LNER forum some while ago. Some of the pictures posted on there have been quite useful to my research so I'm grateful for all who have contributed to that particular item. Yes, Pete, St Wulfram's church on the backscene is a must and I'm hoping to fit in a small suggestion of the old Cattle Market on the layout itself, as it shows up on the old 1903 map close up to the railway beyond the Harlaxton Road bridge. Thats spooky JCL! Do you remember the 'A C Whittington' general store by the 90deg bend in the A52 at the Skegness end of Wainfleet? That was run by my grandmother and thus where we used to stay in the 1970's. And do you remember the minah bird in the hardware store in the market square?! I'll put some buildings information up on a future posting. Yes, that's a C12 alright, S.A.C Martin. Lovely put together kit (Craftsman I think) but not the smoothest of runners. I have a Hornby J52 for station pilot duties at the moment, although the layout needs about 4-5 shunting engines if truth be told - not to mention a couple of horses(!). A reliable C12 is a must. Thanks for offer of diagrams LNERGE. North box and Yard box are pretty much 'fixed' now but I'm still a bit short of information on South box signals so if you able to assist there then that would be great. I hope to keep putting up regular postings but obviously need to work on the model in the meantime in order to have something new to post. So if you'll excuse me for now I have some glazing bars to fit to the goods shed sky lights! 'Robert'

Many thanks Roy for enouraging comments. Glad you were able to recognise the scenes from your local knowledge. I think I would have to say that the Harlaxton Road Bridge is my favourite part of the layout and it should make for an ideal viewpoint at exhibitions. The curve on the layout here is 6 foot radius which suits the geometry of the peco trackwork perfectly. By continuing this curve round through 90 degrees, the layout is already halfway round to the fiddle yard so it 'fits' well. What I haven't said so far is that the roads have a steel guide wire installed beneath them so I can run road vehicles using the Faller system. Trouble is that it would have been mostly horse and carts in pre-war days so that's a bit of a modelling challenge!

Thanks for kind comments. I actually used to travel through Grantham as a child in the opposite direction, as my mother's side of the family was from Wainfleet/Skegness. So we used to change trains at Grantham, alighting from the Manchester-Harwich service to join the DMU where we'd try and sit behind the driver for the journey onwards. So a bit of inspiration there I guess. The 6-wheelers are Bill Bedford kits which I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of putting together. Fitted with RTR wheelsets, with the middle set floating, they can quite happily be propelled through the the curve of Peco double slips so I'm really pleased about that, as some of the shunting moves require that to happen.

Thanks for kind comments. The W1 in original form is arguably a little late for the period but it doesn't do to be too pedantic! Bit of a long way down the wish list for now though... But a model of 10000 in rebuilt A4-like form exists and is available to run on the layout.

Hi Les, On the move shortly but currently in the Stoke-on-Trent area so not a million miles from Nottingham...

Well, I've finally decided to 'take the plunge' and give my project an airing - RM Web seems to be the place to be! The model is intended as a reasonably accurate portrayal of Grantham as it was in the 1930's, with 1935-1939 as the target period (so as to allow the original LNER streamliner trains to be run). It is fully transportable and designed to be exhibitable, footprint 33ft x 17ft. I make no apologies for deciding to recreate Grantham in miniature form, even though several others are already tackling the subject and I'm hoping the pre-war LNER era makes it a bit different. Certainly, the more I research the period, the more fascinating it becomes. Yes, the streamliner trains were the highlight, closely followed by the rest of the Gresley pacific fleet and their gorgeous rakes of teak coaches, but that was only half the story. Elsewhere, much of the old GN order remained and the local services in particular were in the hands of the venerable 4-4-0s and Atlantics hauling equally outdated stock. The 1930's were of course greatly depressed economic times (interesting parallels to our present day perhaps?) and it seemed to be a case of 'make do and mend' for the less prestigious services. The project has been in existence since 2007 and it is largely all my own work. As I am still in full time employment, significant compromises have to be made if the thing is go be 'completed' within a reasonable timescale. Foremost amongst this is the use of Peco streamline Code 100 track throughout. I admire those who commit to building their own track, complete with fishplates et al, but for me it is about creating the overall impression and I hope to demonstrate that use of the Peco system is no obstacle to producing prototype looking track formations. I've spent many happy hours studying the prototype, along with two archive trackplans and, where possible, the model replicates the track layout as it was, thus allowing prototypical operations to be recreated (including the various propelling moves that would give 'elf and safety a fit nowadays!). Allied to operation is a commitment to install working signals as I go along. Grantham in the 1930's was a glorious mix of GN somersaults and standard LNER upper quadrants (with not a colour light in sight). Again, careful study of photographs of the era has been necessary to establish the correct style for each signal (some were clearly renewed during my timeframe); once selected, then I've assembled them from MSE components. Each unplugs from the baseboard for transportation. They are also wired into the control system (traditional DC, for which again I make no apologies) which contains relay logic to replicate the interlocking such that conflicting routes cannot be set. It also provides power to the track so that trains cannot be driven against a signal at danger (although there is a manual override). Buildings are being largely constructed using Metcalfe brick sheets on a cardboard or wood shell. Most of the buildings on the London-bound side and the station approach road still exist so I've visited and photographed; the rest are a careful approximation based on photos and house style. Each has sufficient detail to set the scene but no more, in keeping with the mantra of overall compromise. So far as stock goes, here is the one big area where I am getting considerable assistance; in fact I would go so far as to say that if I didn't have access to other people's stock then the project would have been still-born. One friend in particular loves collecting LNER 00 gauge stock for fun so the informal deal was that he provides the stock and I provide the layout(!) So, where anything Gresley is concerned, we're pretty well covered. He already has a 'Coronation' set; the 'Silver Jubilee' is in the paint shop and the 'West Riding' is next! My relatively modest rolling stock contribution therefore is to try and provide the balance with the older GN types. It's not that I don't like building stock, it's just back to the time involved! So far, I've made a start on a London Road models D2 and I have a J3 kit waiting next (Bachmann or Hornby please do a J6 - and a C1 large-boilered Atlantic wouldn't go amiss either). I've also completed two ex-GNR six-wheelers, with two further GNR Howlden bogie coaches under construction. Well I think that'll do for an introduction. Thank you for reading this far. I'll leave you with a further few general pictures and if you want to know any more in response to the above then just let me know. 'Robert'