LNER4479

Of course there are those of us who never saw the heady days of the steam railway first time round at all. That's where models such as Peterborough North have a very special additional/alternative purpose, being to show what it was like to us young 'uns. Yes, you can still occasionally experience the thrill of steam at speed on the mainline; but the everyday freight train or decrepit station pilot engaged in desultory shunting? Only a well-executed model can truly bring scenes such as those back to life. Great inspiration - keep 'em coming!

I was thinking of having a coal stockpile to the side of one of the roads on the right - they seem to be a very common aspect of NE MPD's, but one that I have never seen modelled.

 

There's a 300mm square that looks rather empty behind the turntable - I shall study my LNER Shed in Camera volume to see just what sorts of infrastructure there was around a steam depot. I'm sure I will find something of interest - it's a rather large piece of real estate - maybe a boiler sludge pond, with some reeds and a few ducks on it???

Looking good Scott,

Have you noticed the sheer legs on the prototype plan? This would be an interesting feature on your model, again rarely modelled. Grantham shed also had a set of these and they were fairly common at mid-large sized depots, for removing wheel sets for axle box or other repairs. You could possibly have a building representing the fitters shop and make this (the area around the turntable) the repairs area? Not all repairs were done in a shed in them days (they bred 'em tough!) I'm sure the reference book you quote will give you lots of ideas.

But I must say the further I get with the model the more encouraged I am to continue onto the next building and hopefully sometime in the not to distant future combine it all together into a layout of 64B.

Hi David,

I too have been following your thread with interest and have enjoyed watching the main 64B shed building evolve over the last few months. Some lovely structure modelling - you seem to be managing to get everything beautifully square and true which can be really difficult for a large building like this but so important. Wonky walls and roof lines destroy the illusion, however much careful detail there is

What a fantastic prototype you've chosen as well. A legendary shed; must have been one of the most stable allocations in the country. Once a 64B loco, always a 64B loco it seems!

Reading through your posts, looks like it might be a little while before the full layout is contemplated but I'm sure we'd all like to see any preliminary plans or doodles you may have? Would you want to portray some of the running lines and the nearby station as well or just the depot?

Regards,

'Robert'

It can be quite expensive up there lad.... depending on where you want to be - were you thinking Kendal or down in the Arnside area. But much cheaper than Oxford. Keep working on her, Jason. Just don't mention the amount of rainfall the place gets. Other than that - how could you not want to live in Cumbria!?

...or how about other side of pennines? At least 25% cheaper again than South Lake District (we know - we looked!) Kendal only an hour's drive away, through the glorious scenery surrounding the former Stainmore route.

In my case, it took a mid-life 'crew change' to crack the 'other half' connundrum. A risky strategy - but look at the result

Yeah, good shout from Michael. It did cross my mind to angle this far road as suggested (to get away from the parallel-ism) but I wasn't sure how much room you had. I would still be tempted to let the right hand end 'wander' a little though, rather than arrow straight for its whole length. Many shed plans seem to have open air roads away from the main shed building that have a mind of their own for no apparent reason! Even looking at the prototype plan for Stockton, the road to the turntable curves away from the other roads to reach the turntable more than it needs to...?

Finally, in the (triangular) space now created between the far road and the shed wall, you could feature some shed office buildings, vital features that are all too easily missed of many a model depot. This would also tie in with your idea of making the laneway cross the tracks to get access to the shed.

On another topic, I have just picked up the January edition of Railway Modeller and - lo and behold - the 'Railway of the Month' feature is none other than 'Hannem Central'. A touch poignant to say the least. He (Graham) clearly loved a mainline railway - sounds like he was my sort of guy.

Yeah, that's now got a nice shed 'feel' to it now Scott,

I thought of the use of the double slip myself as part of the shed entrance. You might just want to check though in terms of radius of the curves on the DS as you expressed concerns earlier over your kit built locos negotiating the tighter curves?

I have a massive amount to learn and do before mine can be considered in an adjacent galaxy to some of these.

...and then you go and produce such an exquisite component as that bridge support! (an item most people probably don't even realise exists, let alone be able to spot on the model!!)

We can all be inspired by and learn from each other it seems.

Hope such details don't take TOO long to make mind - I'm looking forward to seeing 46256 topping Camden bank with 15 on (and no banker!)

Hi Scott,

You beat me to it - I was getting round to having a go at drawing up some shed plans for you (honest!)

What you've produced in essence seems fine to me and was broadly what I was going to suggest. I think this is a good balance between trying to create plenty of place to stable locos versus a feeling of space (and the look of the original). A couple of suggestions however:

I had the same question as Michael in terms of the entrance/exit point from the depot and the need for a 'protection' spur accordingly (2 points that would work as a crossover).

I wonder if the parallel road at the top of the plan is a bit too parallel and makes it look a bit too regimented (and train set like)? Although there's no need to from a pure model railway perspective, putting these on an angle may add to the air of believability (and replicate the fact that the open sidings at the top left of the prototype plan were at an angle to the main shed building. You could always put some shed office buildings in the space created.

I'd move the crossover at the left of the coal stage more to the left. You've got loads of shed stabling space so I don't think you'd miss the space outside the bottom road of the shed. Conversely, you'd gain a space at the coal stage (so perhaps two locos could be there at once?) and you create more of a believable looking 'loop' for one-way movements round the shed. You could even make the spur at the left hand end alongside the bottom of the shed (where the locos reverse having been on the coal stage?) as a designated ash disposal space which creates the natural 'flow' round the depot?

I've (crudely) altered your plan to show some of these ideas:

Hi Peter,

Yes I remember Buxworth Sidings - saw it at the Warrington show one year and was obviously of particular interest to me. Be good to be reminded of it again if you can post the shots.

Great Tunsley Dale looks awesome (especially when the steam is running!), some stunning structure modelling going on there.

Hi there,

Not sure whether this is relevant or not but a few years ago I went for a walk on the old railway trackbed that used to join onto the Crewe-Kidsgrove line at Alsager (I think the shed was in the Vee of this junction?). According to the information board, the line we walked was called the 'Salt Line' and the original traffic flow was from the Northwich area (home of the Cheshire salt mines) through Sandbach and along the now-disused line to Alsager. From there the traffic went onwards to the Pottery towns and industries.

It's possible that this traffic flow had ceased by the time you're looking to set your model but that might be another 'lead' for you. The trackplan for the shed is easy enough to get hold of (but I can send if you don't have it) but don't know about the goods yard. There was also an industrial complex at nearby Radway Green that was rail served until relatively recent times.

Seconded!

And with the 'scary' EM model of Carlisle under construction I think you're in fine company. I hope to (re-)join you myself in a few years time

Love the story of the loco tender in the pub Iain!

Drool, drool, drool....

I'm really an LM man at heart and they don't come finer that one of Sir William's masterpieces - especially in red! She looks fine to me - depends on how high you want to set your standard versus completing your layout. My Stepfather went on the 'last run' 26.9.64 with 46256 over Shap; 38 years later (2002) and we were both on board with 6233 when she climbed the big hill 5 miles in 5 minutes, still the preservation record for a 12 coach train. Awesome machines.

C'mon - let's see the rest then! (Scots, black 5's, Jubilees (a particular favourite), Patriots et al)

That picture of the scott at the junction, hard to believe that its peco pointwork. Photos like that should be in the peco catalog just to show that used effectively even peco can give realistically looking pointwork.

Thank you my friend. I've always enjoyed the challenge of trying to replicate prototype track formations with the Peco. If you do have time to read my other thread (Grantham) you'll find quite a bit of correspondence on there re use of Peco track.(but I guess you prefer Gowhole as it's nearer to Woodhead )

Thanks Bri,

Just back in from the Chapel, having laid 9 of the ex-Gowhole Peco yard lengths in the Grantham fiddle yard Not gone very far though(!)

Thanks guys for kind comments

That's what a layout should be plenty of everything sidings,junctions,big stations and goes all over the place trains everywhere will have see your other layout awesome stuff

Nicely put sir! I liked to think of it as a model of a railway 'system', with various different permutations and combinations of movements and operations. Certainly kept the interest going for 20 years.

I echo Dr G-F's awe that this is effectively a practice run! Carlisle will be a walk in the park for you.

Perhaps not quite a 'walk in the park' Iain, but certainly a concept along very similar lines - to recreate a railway system. By contrast, Grantham is a simple roundy-roundy!

Hi All,

Glad my 'old' layout is of interest to some of you. I have just spent a nostalgic hour or so scanning in some of the best of previous print pictures taken over the years, so here they are. This should give a more comprehensive guided tour of the layout, together with an indication of stock built up over the years:

These two shots give an overall view of Gowhole sidings (complete with stock boxes beneath!). In the background can be seen the 'rest of the world' return loops. The infamous ICI hoppers make an early appearance (I made up 6 of them, resin castings from Peak Model shop in Buxton at the time).

Parked on Dolly Lane in the foreground is my Dad's Ford Anglia! This was a popular spot for local enthusiasts.

A 4F is turned on Gowhole's 60ft turntable. I made this (the turntable) from scratch, powered by human hand via a set of Meccano gears!

Altogether more exotic motive power from the East! Although not diagrammed, Hasland shed would occasionally turn out one of their Garratts to work a fully loaded coal train from Avenue sidings (Chesterfield) if the more usual 4F wasn't available. There is documentary and photographic evidence of this. They worked in via the Hope Valley route (sorry Alastair!)

Having been serviced, 47983, heads back for home with some coal empties (plus some assorted general traffic). I built the loco from an old K's kit. One (large) Mashima motor provides the 'grunt'.

A 'chance'(!) meeting of 3 8Fs at New Mills South. The two heading uphill have replacement Comet chassis, whilst Heaton Mersey's 48503 is an original Wrenn. Below the scene can be seen the route of Hayfield branch with the mainline control panel underneath that.

I quite like the angle of this view of a royal Scot sweeping downhill through the junction towards Manchester. As it was taken before the signals were installed and is a bit fuzzy in places, I'll have a go at re-taking with the DSLR for a future posting.

At new Mills Goods yard, a 2F (still in LMS livery) shunts the yard. This was another kit build, from a Geo Norton etched brass kit (bit too clean!)

Down at Manchester Central, Jubilee 45698 'Mars' prepares to head for the Peak District hills with a Liverpool-Nottingham express (which has reversed at the station). In the background, Fowler 2-6-2T 40067 waits to follow with a South District line local service. A D10 is on station pilot duties.

A view inside the trainshed. The 2-6-2T is reversing out having brought a rake of stock in, as 2P40470 (with Midland tender) arrives with a local from Chinley.

Finally some views at Heaton Mersey. This phot shows the sidings here which aren't actually prototypical, being a sort of amalgam of Georges Road and Heaton Mersey sidings (both of which only ever saw freight wagons!). But they served an operational purpose on the layout. As the Hayfield services ran from Manchester London Road (now Piccadilly) rather than Central then that is why the C13 is at the head of a local train!

This is one half of Heaton Mersey depot, which I did try and make reasonable prototypical (although horribly condensed). The 2P draws to a halt beneath the coaling stage.

The other half of the shed yard, showing the shed building. More 'exotic' motive power on view here, as one of the last former L&Y 7F 0-8-0s is a rather unlikely visitor (although they were recorded working into Gowhole yard with transfer freights from North Manchester). This is a London Road models kit, again wot I built.

The shed yard looked a bit bare so an impression of the engineman's signing-on building was added.

An 8F in repose to finish with. I took this one sunny day, with the sunlight coming in through the skylight, creating the characteristic light and shade effect. The shed building was made from hardboard, with the rough surface facing inwards. Painted, I think it gives a passable impression of brickwork?

i hope you've enjoyed this canter through the various aspects of the layout. It was certainly good fun putting it together. Feel free to ask any questions if you want to know more about any particular aspect(s).

'Robert'

Forgive my complete ignorance of signalling matters north of the Thames - and relative ignorance to the south! - but the near signal in the final shot appears to be all things to all trains.

I think OD that the Peterborough North cameraman got so excited at the sight of a remotely clean Thompson pacific that he didn't spot the fact that he'd camera-framed two different signal posts in perfect alignment

When playing golf Phil, one uses one ball at at a time. It is struck, and flies in a graceful arc either into an impenetrable jungle imported specially from the Amazon rain forest, or into a lake or pond, after which one uses foul and blasphemous langauge and reaches into the bag for another...... This is called "enjoyment".

Sorry to go off topic GN but that is the most brilliant description of the confounded game I think I've ever read There was a time when I was persuaded to cart a bag of sticks around a large field punctuated by small holes but I never got on with it too well. To have hit a ball in a graceful arc would have been something. As a slight link to a discussion on the previous page however, I did once play on what I was told was a former colliery in North Nottinghamshire called 'Ormonde Fields'. Rather an inspiring name I thought!

I have now swapped for a sport that involves 2 sticks (not one) at a time and no balls. Together with two planks of wood strapped to one's feet and a gravitationally challenged, snow covered field, I seem to get on rather better in this configuration.

Great pics, as always.

Thats good size layout you have....

Thanks Cl.66. Especially as you don't profess to be a steam man (sounds like there's time for you to 'see the light' yet!) Lofts are of course good spacious places to set out a layout. The layout never really seem to suffer too much despite the hot and cold extremes; possibly this was due to the installation of a velux window. What you see is the result of over 20 years modelling so I guess I had plenty of time to build things up over that period.

That shot of New Mills Junction is exquisite... (modesty prevents me from re-quoting the rest).

Aw shucks Dr G-F - steady on now

But thanks all the same. It's one of my favourite shots of the layout and you have succinctly captured my approach to modelling in one sentence (although some of those vans are kit built with sprung buffers I'll have you know!). I'm under no illusion that many will take one look at a thread like this and quickly move on elsewhere. No problem; we're a broad church and there's plenty of room for all approaches. But it's gratifying when others like what you've done (and I do try and comment favourably on other threads I like in equal measure) and I value kind comments from youself and others.

Meanwhile, about to pass through the real Grantham at speed, heading back home with two rolls of cork and 17 yards of ex-Gowhole Peco for Grantham's fiddle yard

Thanks for interest Bill - it certainly seems a little different to your area/era. I'll let you into a little secret though - I did allow a few (green) diesels on the layout, to represent the very end of the era being depicted. I've just realised that I do have one further picture to hand which I can post for now, which happens to show two of them...

Thanks Dr G-F

I've never known a time when I didn't like making models so I guess I must have acquired some skills over the years. Ours is one of the few hobbies I think where you get better as you get older...

I have loads of print photographs taken over the years so will scan those in - but I can probably re-take most of them with my current D-SLR. One way or another, I'll get them posted in due course.

One interesting snippet for you seeing as how you like track so much. The alignment of the running lines you can see in the centre of the opening photograph was set by a computer! So I can only take partial credit for the lovely reverse sweep of them. I was doing some research into track alignment and used the programme I was working on one lunchtime to run the measurements from Gowhole through

You were luckier than me on seeing the LNER set on the SVR.

Well it was the Autumn Gala (2011), with Tornado and Caley 0-6-0! Pity about the motive power on the teak set

Thanks Barry,

Had a look at your workbench; nice work. The ink and powders approach is certainly interesting. Looks like EM Carlisle has a powerful team behind it; I (and I'm sure plenty of others) look forward to seeing it get more complete as time goes on.

Weathering hasn't been a priority on Grantham yet (I think I better concentrate on getting the basic layout complete first!). However, if you look at my other thread just started today (link below) then you should be able to detect that I am not averse to weathering(!)

There is one vehicle however that I have done some weathering on as I wanted to enter it into a competition:

I was a bit stuck though when I came to the roof as you don't tend to find too manyprototype pictures taken from a sufficiently high up vantage point to show this sort of detail. However, I happened to visit the SVR during this time and took the following picture (from the new footbridge at Highley):

Just goes to show that, even in the rare-ified preservation world, white-painted roofs don't stay white for very long! As well as the shade of grey (obviously accumulated soot), I was struck by how the dirt had particularly gathered round the roof ventilators, so this gave me the inspiration I needed. This was the result:

It can't have been too bad as I won a prize! And doesn't it show how the other roof needs something doing to it? They can't all be 'just out of shops'!

Finally, can't resist finishing this post with the following picture:

What an absolutely fantastic piece of coach restoration this is. And a genuine GNR survivor. I love the semi-compartment half way along marking the division between the two classes. Plenty of coaches like this during my era, mixing it with the more 'modern' Gresley teaks so somehow need to find a way of working one or two kit builds of these into the overall scheme of things!

Hi Barry,

Wow - that IS scary! I love the way a casual request for information reveals a humungous 30m x 6m layout There certainly seems to be no stopping people going for 'ultimate' representations of real locations these days. Thanks for pointing out.

My approach to Carlisle will be quite different so that it could never be called a 'clone'!

Thanks Fen,

Yes, I do have a copy of LNER Album Vol 3. I don't have it to hand but will check the pages you mention at the weekend. Is one of them the K3 with the Cattle Train at South box? I also have Vol.1 - I love the picture of the driver of an A1(A3) leaning out of the cab window about as far as his torso will allow him, obviously looking back for the guard's 'tip' before departing northbound. Wonderful stuff!