LNER4479

Looks like you're building one of my many 'pipe dream' layouts from over the years!

Many years ago, my father acquired some old copies of the Railway Gazette (dated 1937). One of these had an article about modernisation of LMS loco sheds and contained a wonderful pull out diagram featuring three depots that were part of the program - Camden, Longsight and Derby. There were also detailed drawings of the coaling and ashplant towers. I remember pouring over the details for hours and imagining 'what if'. Camden always seemed to be the one of the three that was attainable in model form as it was (is!) quite a compact site, considering the fantastic allocation that was based there.

Looks like a fantastic layout in the making; certainly the appearance of the trackwork completed so far is very convincing, with obvious care to get the ballast looking 'right'. You're in a different league to me when it comes to building the track (points). Despite my current project being from a different era/region, my long term intention is to return to a BR (LMR) steam era prototype so I hope to follow your progress with interest.

LNER4479

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58826-grantham-the-streamliner-years/

(Just passed Camden on my Pendolino - alas not a Duchess or Royal Scot to be seen!)

I'd love to see more shots of the complex junctions - I've got a thing about track, and yours is lovely!

 

Once again, I'm convinced that the best layouts are the ones that closely follow the real thing from track layout to rolling stock to operations.

 

Are you modelling the depot and all the engine changing? After 1950 something, Grantham had a turning wye built, rather unusual for the UK I think.

Thank you Dr Gerbil-Fritters for this and your other kind comments. Yes I agree with you about basing a trackplan on the protoype. It is fascinating to research and observe how track plans varied between different railway companies and evolved over time. Certainly the configurations of today can be very different to 70-80 years ago so it is important to research carefully to relicate the correct look of the era.

In response to your request, here are some further views. The photo quality is a little inferior but it should show the details of the track plan.

This is a close up of the junctions by North Box. This is the pre-war layout; it was simplified post-war to a plain double junction (which illustrates well the above point). The heart of it is two single slips, arranged in the trailing direction (as was the normal convention - facing points on mainlines used to be avoided unless absolutely necessary). I have introduced a slight curve in these (it is possible, by cutting away selective pieces of the webbing underneath the point) to maintain the smooth flow of the curve. Alongside the box are two Y-points. In this case, the nearest one has to be facing as this is a diverging junction. On the left hand side, I have laid out temporarily how the pointwork has been designed to depict the bay platforms on this side, although in this case there will be a considerable reduction on the amount of trackwork that there was in this area on the real thing.

Moving further towards the station, this shows the rather delightful 'scissors' arrangement between the box and the station. In this case, I have been able to replicate the exact layout here. You can see no less that three double slips in this area. The handmade crossing that I showed above can clearly be seen and, because I was able to construct it exactly to fit, it gives a lovely straight alignment out of the bay platform to pick up the Nottingham route out of the station. Alongside the bay platform, to the right, you can see a Gresley pacific occupying the engine siding. This is where a relieving loco would wait, pending a north-bound loco change, so - yes - it is the intention to depict the engine changes. In the background, the rear-most double slip provides one of two access points to the depot area.

Talking of which, here is the depot, or at least the rather limited work I have done on it to date. The afore-mentioned double slip is extreme bottom left and following that there is a rather gorgeous 'super scissors' arrangement. It seems rather over-elaborate but it was clearly there in pictures which just goes to show that many a depot yard was anything but a simple 'ladder' of points. In the middle of it is a standard Peco 'short' crossing which has been heavily butchered (along with the corresponding legs of other four associated points) to make this arrangement as compact as possible. The turntable well can clearly be seen with its access road being the yet-to-be-laid spur off the right hand leg of the three-way point. You are quite correct about the turning triangle post-war. Apparently, the foundations of this turntable (remarkably one of four that existed at various times at the Grantham depot site) collapsed in 1950 and the installation of a triangle was apparently the simplest alternative option, as there was spare land available. But being pre-war, I'm OK with the turntable (a triangle would be a serious challenge space wise on a model!). Beyond that, where there is a lighter coloured area, there will be a depiction of the old shed building. This was actually a four-road structure - but I'm only going to build it as a two-road shed (compromise again). This building was demolished after the war but again I'm OK with it being the 1930's. Opposite this (to the right) will be the coaling stage and in the distance there is a board I have yet to build which will feature the 'new' shed. Again this was a four-road building. I've got my eye on the Townstreet resin kit (to save a bit of time) which is suitable for three-roads; another compromise which should keep things in proportion. I calculate that I should be able to get 24 locos on my depot before it gets 'bunged up'; I think that should be enough!

Hope this helps understand some more of the details; like you it seems, I could talk trackplans all night!

Thanks for further kind comments over last few days. Several have commented on use of Peco trackwork etc, so I thought I'd post a few details.

First of all, all track and ballast is painted (sprayed) before laying. Here are a couple of lengths of underlay have been sprayed as a prelude to track laying. Yes, that is Peascliffe tunnel entrance to be.

The colour used is 'ancient white' (or 'off white' if you like). It is intended to represent the colour of ballast when it is freshly laid, straight out of the quarry. Of course the colour of ballast does vary greatly but photographic evidence seems to indicate that light grey is a good base to build up the weathering colours on top of. Why use of the foam ballast? Well speed is certainly one factor. I also like the lovely smooth 'whoosh' of a train moving past at speed that you get. Finally, the precise shape of the foam for me quite closely matches the carefully manicured ballast shoulder that was a trademarked of hand maintained trackwork in steam days (quite different from the appearance today)

Meanwhile, here's some track being sprayed a dark brown colour (outside of course, plenty of natural ventilation). Aargh! Doesn't it get in all the point blades etc? Well, it does to some extent. I prefer to wait till it's dry then the running surface can be scraped off easily enough, followed by a piece of emery cloth between the point blade and stock rail. Usually that does the trick; any additional cleaning is done as necessary when test running.

The other thing I do is to modify pointwork so as to maintain a standard 11' 2" (@45mm) track centre; standard Peco pointwork gives 'too wide' 50mm track centres. Feel free to point out the exceptions to the rule (former GW broad gauge routes are the obvious examples) but I do believe that the extra work involved is rewarded in helping create the prototypical look of UK double track mainlines (especially as OO is slightly narrow gauge anyway).

Here are the above two points, now installed as the facing cross-over off the Nottingham branch.

All pointwork on the layout uses the standard Peco products - apart from this one! This is the crossing just off the north end of the down (northbound) platforms. No amount of juggling the track would allow a standard product to be used so I soldered this up from code 100 rail and copper clad sleepers. Sprayed as above it blends in remarkably well.

The final aspect is track alignment. Here I adopt a method involving knocking in 15mm panel pins in the centre of the trackbed every six inches and then lay the track up against these. What I'm doing here is to measure the offset of each pin from its neighbours. As a first pass, this will produce an uneven alignment; but by juggling each pin and re-measuring eventually a smooth alignment results.

This is the alignment of the Nottingham lines as they curve away from the East Coast Mainline (just visible on the extreme right). Whereas a straight alignment is simplicity itself, the human eyeball isn't quite as good when it comes to curves! I find this method allows lovely smooth curves and transitions to be mapped out.

Tracklaying is then simplicity itself, I just use this simple wood template to position the track at the correct position relative to the panel pin, drill and fix with a Peco track pin. In some cases, I've had to temporarily remove track and relay - usually the track pin goes straight back into its original hole!

The second line of the double track is then laid to maintain the 45mm track centre. Even simpler.

And so, putting it all together:

An Atlantic heads takes the Nottingham road out of Grantham, over the tracks that I showed being laid earlier. There are some lovely 'sweeps' at this (north) end of the layout to contrast with the arrow straight alignment from the south. The stock is a pair of Kirk articulated twins, formed up as Brake(4) Third - All third + Lavatory Composite - Brake(5) Third, a classic LNER non-corridor four car formation (although in truth a little too 'posh' for the Nottingham services of the 1930s!)

This view shows a K3 taking the 'Up' slow line having passed through the station with a long coal train. In the immediate foreground, the central space between the two lengths of Peco foam underlay has been filled in level with fine ballast. This further aids appearance. However, it is crying out for weathering! I also think I'll snip off all those pips on the end of the point bars. This also shows that I am only using the foam for the main running lines, as the less important lines were less well tended. The tracks either side are therefore laid on 3mm cork (painted dark grey). I think it doesn't look too bad as it is but some light ballasting will be applied to help blend in. The ground signal is of the 'rotating head' type. It has the signal box lever number (12) marked on it (this is something I've observed from period photos) - and it works.

Hope all this is of interest and gives some idea of what lies behind the trackwork. I don't claim it to be especially clever or that it might to everyone's taste; it's just the way I've come to make use of the Peco system after nearly 30 years of practice.

Happy to respond to any comments folks may have.

'Robert'

Just a quick post re track plan (Grantham Diagram - Signalling.pdf). This is only diagrammatic (for signalling) so does not shows sidings or depot. I do have a scale track plan half drawn but it is quite long and thin! I'll see if I can draw up something suitable for posting.

Thanks LNERGE for South box diagram. You can see from the attached diagram how my junctions at the south end are something of a compromise compared to the other two boxes. Even with compromise it's complex enough(!) and allows most of the prototypical moves to be made. Your diagram handy for signals, even though it looks to be a more modern era (with the inevitable 'whitening out' of former lines).

Grantham in the 1930's (just to be a bit different)

Full posting in the layout topics area:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58826-grantham-the-streamliner-years/

Thanks all for further comments and encouragement. I'll try and answer each specific point in turn.

Yes, Mike, I've seen other Grantham posting and also chanced on the thread on LNER forum some while ago. Some of the pictures posted on there have been quite useful to my research so I'm grateful for all who have contributed to that particular item.

Yes, Pete, St Wulfram's church on the backscene is a must and I'm hoping to fit in a small suggestion of the old Cattle Market on the layout itself, as it shows up on the old 1903 map close up to the railway beyond the Harlaxton Road bridge.

Thats spooky JCL! Do you remember the 'A C Whittington' general store by the 90deg bend in the A52 at the Skegness end of Wainfleet? That was run by my grandmother and thus where we used to stay in the 1970's. And do you remember the minah bird in the hardware store in the market square?!

I'll put some buildings information up on a future posting.

Yes, that's a C12 alright, S.A.C Martin. Lovely put together kit (Craftsman I think) but not the smoothest of runners. I have a Hornby J52 for station pilot duties at the moment, although the layout needs about 4-5 shunting engines if truth be told - not to mention a couple of horses(!). A reliable C12 is a must.

Thanks for offer of diagrams LNERGE. North box and Yard box are pretty much 'fixed' now but I'm still a bit short of information on South box signals so if you able to assist there then that would be great.

I hope to keep putting up regular postings but obviously need to work on the model in the meantime in order to have something new to post. So if you'll excuse me for now I have some glazing bars to fit to the goods shed sky lights!

'Robert'

That's absolutely amazing Robert.I was a cleaner/fireman at Grantham in '57/63.You have done your research and captured the scene and track spot on I think.Certainly takes me back a bit. I love the photo of Harlaxton Road bridge;you've even got the sweeping curve on it,and the associated old warfe road under the other arch;brilliant.You're working some years before my time,indeed,all of us, I suppose of course,but it's really something.Thanks for sharing it.

Regards , Roy.

Many thanks Roy for enouraging comments. Glad you were able to recognise the scenes from your local knowledge. I think I would have to say that the Harlaxton Road Bridge is my favourite part of the layout and it should make for an ideal viewpoint at exhibitions. The curve on the layout here is 6 foot radius which suits the geometry of the peco trackwork perfectly. By continuing this curve round through 90 degrees, the layout is already halfway round to the fiddle yard so it 'fits' well. What I haven't said so far is that the roads have a steel guide wire installed beneath them so I can run road vehicles using the Faller system. Trouble is that it would have been mostly horse and carts in pre-war days so that's a bit of a modelling challenge!

That's really great. Living near Skegness as a kid, then moving to London later in life, Grantham was the station we almost always changed at (in fact I'll be flying over from Canada and passing through the station in a few weeks), so it will be really interesting to see this develop. I hope all goes well with it, and I concur about the C1! One quick question, were the 6-wheelers kit built or scratch-built?

 

Jason

Thanks for kind comments.

I actually used to travel through Grantham as a child in the opposite direction, as my mother's side of the family was from Wainfleet/Skegness. So we used to change trains at Grantham, alighting from the Manchester-Harwich service to join the DMU where we'd try and sit behind the driver for the journey onwards. So a bit of inspiration there I guess. The 6-wheelers are Bill Bedford kits which I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of putting together. Fitted with RTR wheelsets, with the middle set floating, they can quite happily be propelled through the the curve of Peco double slips so I'm really pleased about that, as some of the shunting moves require that to happen.

Oh!! another lovely ECML layout what with Peterborough North and 50A Leaman Rd more to follow and spot.No wonder I never get any jobs done looking forward to more,Come on you've tempted us now!!.The right period for the original W1 or maybe a bit late?

Thanks for kind comments. The W1 in original form is arguably a little late for the period but it doesn't do to be too pedantic! Bit of a long way down the wish list for now though... But a model of 10000 in rebuilt A4-like form exists and is available to run on the layout.

VERY nice and very ambitious. What part of the country are you located in?

 

Les

(Bingham MRC)

Hi Les,

On the move shortly but currently in the Stoke-on-Trent area so not a million miles from Nottingham...