LNER4479

Sounds good!! but I would think this is more likely a name source ?

 

http://en.wikipedia....e_Devil_(horse)

To clarify - the racehorse 'Robert the Devil' was (apparently!) named after William the Conqueror's father (the wikipedia entry does not appear to comment on the origin of the horse's name) . The LNER then named 4479 after the racehorse 'Robert the Devil' (ie a two-stage process to get from the Norman Conquest to a Gresley A1!)

I once went to the museum at the Newmarket racecourse - and found myself surrounded by the names of Gresley pacifics. It was great!

That picture also shows, behind the scene, a section of the canopy you mention - the structure that extended north from the up side station buildings along platforms 1 and 2 until it collapsed with the weight of snow in 1947. It can be seen in the photo at page 47 (top) in Cawston and also in one of Rev T.B. Parley’s early Edwardian era photos of Grantham station which has appeared in at least two publications – Steam Days No.211 (March 2007) page 137 and, with three further photographs taken at Grantham in the same period, in Archive (published by Lightmoor Press) Issue 1 (March 1994) on page 40. I expect you will be aware of these but, if you aren’t, they may provide some more clues for you. The loss of the canopy may well explain the different style of gas lamp that could be seen in the 1950s/early 1960s along the north end of the up platform, compared with elsewhere on the station; these most likely being installed to replace older lighting destroyed in the collapse.

 

I haven’t much that can help further with your quest for detail. Attached is a shot taken through one of the gaps between the buildings on the down side - it's not the sharpest of images. I’ve another, in b/w, which shows the staircase to the footbridge, but it’s quite a ‘thin’ (i.e. underexposed) negative and I’ll need to have another try at obtaining a decent scan.

 

There’s a shot taken in the down side goods yard here:

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10443415&itemw=4&itemf=0001&itemstep=1&itemx=3

Thanks very much 61070 for further information. Just unpicking all that a bit:

Yes, I have the Cawston book so indeed picture on p.47 (J54 pilot attaching a horsebox) shows the canopy. I also have a slightly clearer copy of this picture as it appeared in the Locomotives Illustrated magazine that featured some of the LNER tank engine classes.

Yes, I have the March 2007 Steam Days article so again the Rev Parley picture shows the canopy. On this photo, it seems clear that the 'legs' on the far (east) side of the canopy appear to have be 'planted' at ground level in the gap between platform 1 and the horsebox landing (ie such that the canopy did not cover the latter). Would that be correct?

Haven't seen the 1994 'Archive' so that sounds like a useful one to hunt down - thanks.

In terms of the north end of the 'up' (southbound) platform and the different lamps, my research shows that there were alterations here post war, including removal of the trailing connection from the platform 1/horse landing area to the 'up' main (which I'm assuming the above-mentioned J54 would have used to attach the horsebox). This and other associated pointwork appear to have been removed in connection the extension of the Up platform. Post-war era pictures clearly show a step-up in the platform at this point as the extension was built to a more modern higher level, whereas the existing platform was quite low. This in itself might explain the different lighting fitted.

I've previously seen the picture looking between the down side platform buildings (very attractively framing the A4 beyond!) on your LNER Forum thread and this amongst others was one of the pictures that convinced me that all the buildings on this side were of wood! Looking at this again, in comparison with Roy@34F's pictures I'm struggling to work out where along the platform this is?! The b/w one showing the staircase sounds interesting if you are able to scan it.

Yes, the picture of the down side goods yard is gorgeous isn't it? In another of my reference books, 'Grantham and Railways' by Frank Cossey, there is another picture of the train shown shortly after it had set off, captured in Spitalgate cutting, the big round headboard proudly proclaiming 'Hotpoint washing machines for Australia'! Obviously a 'red letter day' for the official photographer... and a sad reminder of what we have lost from the days of the common carrier railway.

Hello Robert

 

I have just picked up your superb Grantham thread. Modelling that I aspire to.

 

Looking in particular at you Goods shed - what did you construct the canopies from?

 

Regards

 

Derek

Thanks Derek for kind comments. The canopies on the goods shed are nothing more that cardboard and plasticard and are an example of my 'guesstimation' approach. Being round the back (and therefore largely out of sight in most pictures) I only had a few shreds of detail to go on. However, I eventually realised that the basic configuration was of a central building (office?), flanked by canopies either side (which thus use the walls of the brick building as support). So each (canopy) is formed of just three pieces of thick (grey) card - a 'front' face, a side face and a roof piece. I arranged the roof piece to slope towards the building for drainage (I figured that a more fancy peaked roof with skylights, etc would be OTT for a goods shed?). I then found a plasticard offcut, scribed with parallel lines (to represent planking) in my plasticard n card rack (never throw away the backing card from shirt packs or the card from photograph envelopes!) and just cut V notches along the bottom to match the spacing of the lines. Fix over the cardboard and paint. The Keith Pirt Grantham colour book has a picture on page 38 of No.14 departing southbound - and lo and behold in the background he has fortuitously caught the south elevation of the goods shed which clearly shows the canopy at that end.

Loco and coach looking very good, Mr. Magnificent.

Thanks Jonathan. Perhaps I should explain to those who may be puzzling over this apparent outbreak of sycophancy(!) that this is actually an oblique reference to my RMWeb call sign, LNER4479. The racehorse name 'Robert the Devil' was taken from the name of William the Conqueror's father (ref. Cawston p.19) who, according to my British Heraldry wall chart, was also known as 'Robert the Magnificent'. Phew - glad we got that one straightened out. Who says that an interest in railways doesn't give you an education?!

'Robert'

Hello 61070,

Many thanks for taking the time to respond on my behalf and thanks also for your kind and encouraging comments. Can I also say what a great source of information the 'Returning to Grantham' thread has been in my research. Even though most of the information relates to the post-war era, you'd be amazed how the odd glimpse of a detail in the background of a photo can become another piece of the jigsaw.

I'm fairly certain that 'black bess' was fitted with upper quadrant arms by c.1937, hence why I have modelled it in this state. There are several pictures from about that time showing upper quadrant, the most 'famous' of which is that below (the most requested slide in the Colour Rail collection, apparently!)

This can of course be no earlier than 1935 (year loco was built) and no later than 1937-8 (by which time she'd lost her silver livery for garter blue). You are quite correct about the distant arm on the junction (as opposed to mainline) post. Unfortunately, I spotted that only after I'd made the darn thing. I'm claiming 'compromise' for this one!

Re the iron ore wagons, I think the photo you're referring to is the one of the ex-works A3 in 1946 standing in the down loco change siding. If so the iron ore wagon in the background is lettered 'LMS'! Not quite sure what to make of that?! Possibly the wagons had become so hopelessly 'muddled up' during the chaos of the war years that anything could be seen anywhere. I do agree though that it looks to be of the same type.

Yes, I am aware that there is a copy of BackTrack I need to hunt down. Just a case of keeping a look out for it or perhaps an internet search when I can get round to it. If I'm missing any views then it is possibly around the back of the station buildings area (where there was a water tank apparently?), views of the 'down' (island) platform taken from the 'up' platform and the horse dock/plat 1 area with the canopy in position (it collapsed in the harsh winter of 1947 - I think I found that out from your thread as well!), plus any goods yard details (as opposed to general views). Overall though, helped enormously by your thread, I'm pretty comfortable with what I have now. Just need to get on and finish it now!

Back to the modelling methinks! First of all, though, how about this for inspiration?

I came across this recently flicking through a book about Stafford (No.22 in the Foxline ‘Scenes from the Past’ series). What a gorgeous sight and, although not a train to/from Grantham itself, the service is in essence part of the same network of local services. Indeed in GNR days there was a direct Grantham-Stafford service, but by LNER days it appears that the service was effectively split at Derby. I am however pretty confident that this is typical of the motive power and stock for local services in my era.

As you can see, this is the London Road Models kit for a D2 (non-superheated version). So far I have a working chassis and part completed body.

Closer view of the body superstructure, showing the elegant lines starting to take shape. Soldering as usual looks a bit of a ‘glob up’ at this stage but should clean up OK. The valancing will be released from the fold up cradle in due course. The boiler barrel is just positioned for the photograph at this stage, no work having been done on it as such yet.

And here is part of its train to be, a Howlden 45foot non-corridor Brake Third. This is essentially a Bill Bedford kit, with bogie sides from Dart castings and a small amount of scratchbuilding on the underframe. I also have a composite vehicle in the same style under construction. All manner of combinations of these and the 6-wheel stock seemed to be the basis of the local services in my era, as the first picture perfectly illustrates.

We’re well outside RTR territory here(!) so thanks to kit providers like London Road and Bill Bedford for being able to assemble trains like these. I’ll let you know how the build progresses in future postings.

‘Robert’

I think GN that is a great summary of an aspect of the hobby that often gets viewed as if only certain gifted folks can do it.

Personally, I love making kits - I can think of no more satisfying aspect of the hobby than seeing one of your own creations 'strutting its stuff'. I probably make one or two a year (including coaches) and I think my big BUT would be this one very simple one - the more you do the better you get! Hence to appear over-awed by your first attempt in 30 years is perfectly understandable. Unfortunately, from personal experience, you have to go through the 'pain barrier' of making a few 'turkeys' before you get used to the pitfalls and start to turn out at least half decent offerings. My other comment would be that I have entered several of mine over the years into club competitions. I have found that that can sharpen your appreciation. People are almost invariably encouraging and, after 20 years of trying, I finally 'won' a category last year, with my two six-wheel coaches - which if nothing else hopefully proves the point that the more you do the better you get.

Good luck with the rest of the build; I look forward to seeing progress.

You forgot the mighty Kings of the western!

No offence intended (honest). My excuse being that the Kings dated from slightly earlier (1927) hence during the period of my project (1935-1939) it very much LMS vs LNER. However, both of course had already benefitted from the GWR influence - the A4's wouldn't have been the loco they were without the earlier development of the A1's/A3's following the exchange trials with the Castle; meanwhile the best thing that ever came out of Swindon was 'gifted' to the LMS in 1932 in the shape of one Mr Stanier(!) who proved to be the man to sort out the LMS loco policy. I've read a couple of biographies of the great man and I was especially fascinated to read of his personal involvement with 6000, including taking it to America in 1927 for the Baltimore & Ohio celebrations. Apparently the Yanks could not believe how quiet it was when in motion, a testament to the extremely high standard of construction - even a certain Mr Ford came to see for himself! Wouldn't you loved to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation? Heady days indeed.

Just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying reading this thread being a fan of the 1930's LNER myself. You've really made a great start capturing the atmosphere of the location and I love the recreations of some of the trains. I've always felt that the LNER was a most interesting company where the latest state of the art innovations could be found alongside aging pre-grouping stock of 50 years of age or more! You've got this to perfection here!

I'll echo the comments above. I've very much enjoyed reading this thread and seeing the whole picture come to life. Great stuff.

Thanks for kind comments guys (and apologies for slightly delayed acknowledgement due to a short trip away over Bank Holiday)

I’m also finding the research behind the LNER in the 1930’s more and more fascinating with every new piece of historical information I unearth. In some cases the themes are common to all the ‘big four’ companies in the era; in other cases they are peculiarly LNER.

You can easily get the impression that the 1930’s was the great era, with Gresley’s A4’s and Staniers ‘Duchesses’ vying for supremacy as the last word in steam locomotives design and records being broken with virtually every succeeding trial or press run. But scratch beneath the surface and it becomes apparent that the reality of the times was very different.

A particularly sobering read is the Hughes LNER book. This is quite different from your average ‘picture book’ (great though the latter are) as it gives a very factual account of the LNER’s commercial and managerial organisation. Particularly startling is the chapter on financial performance. The graph of actual revenue against predicted revenue is scarcely believable; for one year in the 1920's (the 1926 general strike year I think) revenue was only one third of what was predicted. It’s a wonder the company survived at all. You then vaguely recall the odd fact from when you were half paying attention during school history lessons and remind yourself that 1929 was the year of the Wall Street crash that heralded the years of economic depression of the 1930’s.

Also of note (and not always appreciated) is that it was in the 1930’s that the government first provided financial support to the railways. Nowadays we call it a subsidy; then they were ‘capital improvement grants’. This at least partly explains how the LNER was able to build V2’s in such numbers from 1936 (and the LMS likewise the Black 5’s).

So this seems to be background to the continued use of the ancient GNR stock in amongst the Streamliners; with financial reserves significantly depleted, renewal of stock for the local services in the outlying provinces had to wait, leading to much 'recycling' and make-do-and-mend. One could argue that it has pretty much been the case ever since for the railways of this country(!) but it appears to have been particularly acute for the 1930's LNER.

As you say, a fascinating period – and for me perhaps a conundrum as to what extent I replicate this in the model. After all, I wouldn’t want to thoroughly depress everyone watching at an exhibition! But I think a careful representative balance between the new and old should both 'tell the story' and be entertaining at the same time - which feels like the right sort of balance to aim for.

Be pleased and interested to hear any views folks might have (and feel free to correct me on any historical facts - I'm far too young to remember the era myself!)

1: Eight

2: Nine

3: Five

4: Considering he's well and truly out of sight (most likely in the tender front getting more coal down to the front), I'll go for grey at start of shift and black stripes on them afterwards

I make it:

1. Eight (agree)

2. Ten (dispute!) I count 2 V2's and 2 A1's...

3. No idea (not got me shed book to hand)

4. Dirty black (at least they ought to be)

Do we refer No.2 to Hawk Eye?

PS - where was the special? Running three hours late no doubt...

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but there is a wealth of information and some beautiful pics in this thread. Worthwhile giving up an hour or so to wander through. Wonderful to see another ECML layout on RMWeb...

 

http://www.lner.info...1cf12a2c4cc4013

Thanks Gordon. Yes, I discovered the 'Returning to Grantham' thread on LNER forum some while ago and it has indeed been a valuable source for my research. Enjoyed reading your layout thread. Hope your project remains 'on track' following recent deliberations.

If your track is robust enough and securely fixed, I would certainly recommend 'jointing the track', including all of the additional rail joints through pointwork. I have done this on my layout http://www.rmweb.co....h-and-slitrigg/, which uses SMP code 75 plastic based and paxolin track construction, stone ballast fixed with diluted PVA, which results in a rigid base. The effect is superb. I must work out how to upload a sound video to demonstrate the effect for you.

OK guys you've convinced me! On the 'to do' list (but not near the top just at the moment)...

Dear LNER4479,

This is a magificent layout and I am truly jealous. Another fantastic ECML project that I must follow on RMWeb.

Early in this thread you mention the use of underlay to give the high speed "whoosh" effect. May I enquire whether you will be adding nicks in the rails at 60 foot scale centres to replicate the "diddlydoo-diddlydah" or did all welded rail exist on the LNER pre-war?

I am looking forward to seeing this potential masterpiece develop. Please keep us all informed.

Regards,

Brian.

Thanks Brian for kind comments and I'm glad you're enjoying the posts.

Re 'nicks' in the rail - yes, very tempting! Perhaps not at the top of the priority list just at the moment but maybe something to consider at a later date. Mind you, were they at 60foot intervals in 1935-1939?! According to the RCTS green book, volume 2A, p.126, AFTER Mallard's record run, the civil engineer pointed out to Gresley that some of the rails near Tallington were of the old 40foot type, laid in about 1910! (just noticed - and how spooky, or was it 'planned'? - that the description of Mallard's run appears on page 126 of the book!!).

That is exceptional good fortune Robert! My memory told me that most of those buildings were brick, but I didn't dare say so, as the memories of a teenager recalled more than fifty years on are not to be relied on.

That's interesting GN because I was labouring under the mis-apprehension that the exact opposite was true, ie that they were all wooden structures (based on the fact that every picture I've seen has just a glimpse of wooden slats in the background). I'm so glad that it's been 'bottomed' before I got started in earnest. Research is great fun but there comes a time when you've just got to go with what you've got!

For some reason I have missed this thread before, so I have really enjoyed the last 20 mins reading it. BR E is my interest having spent most of my younger years at Grimsby. So from time to time I did pass through Grantham.

Glad you enjoyed reading Theakerr and thanks for kind comment. I'll try to keep the posts coming but, as always, it's a balance between time on the keyboard and time actually making things. So it's back to a hot soldering iron and the rather delightful London Road Models kit for a D2 that's on the workbench at the moment...

Whilst details of the 'Up' platform buildings are relatively easy to work out, those on the 'Down' (island) platform are proving very tricky, mainly because they're all long since demolished. I can only snatch the odd detail here and there in the corner of pictures. They seem to be of wood construction (as opposed to the brick of the other platform) but more than that I cannot tell. So if anyone knows any more or has any plans showing details of their construction then that would be most helpful.

Well, further to the above, I'm delighted to say that Roy@34F very kindly responded to my plea for details of the old buildings on the down (northbound) platforms and is happy for me to post so all may benefit. These are the series of pictures he took shortly prior to their demolition in the early 1980’s.

These first two are composites showing the buildings from the west side from left (north) to right (south). The footbridge steps come down behind the telephone box. Note the missing section of valancing towards the left hand dagger boarding below where there seem to be quite a few missing roof slates. All looking a bit ‘dodgy’!

I’m rather taken by how the buildings go from brick to wood… to brick …and back to wood (I’d never actually realised that before I saw Roy’s photos).

A further view of the north end.

Here is a good view from the platform looking north. Roy advises that the white screen on the right covers the entrance to the gents toilet (note the ‘Gentlemen’ sign on the building).

These collection of wooden buildings do appear in the background of some south end shots but again this is a further useful viewpoint.

So there we have it. Thanks very much Roy for having the presence of mind to take these photos. If I wasn’t already convinced as to the power of the RMWeb community then I certainly am now. This was an area where I was going to have to use a little too much ‘guesstimation’ for my liking; thanks to these photos I now won’t have to do that (especially as these views will be facing the 'audience' at an exhibition!).

…hopefully my crummy cardboard mock-ups will soon be a thing of the past!

‘Robert’

How about some sort of spotting competition using your layout and its stock? Lots of photographs of trains running, as many different locomotives as possible, with a full list of numbers provided.

Great idea! How about a railtour running through as well with exotic locos/stock? By 1958 there must have been a SLS or RCTS tour that ran somewhere in the locale. Or, if you're prepared to stretch reality a tad, you could depict the classic 60007 112.5mph railtour trip passing through (1959 wasn't it?). Don't forget the headboard!

I must ask, are those Mailcoach Coronation coaches? If so, they are exquisitely painted.

Yes, the Coronation set is assembled from the mailcoach kits (the ones with the see-through plastic sides). Roy Mear's work again. I only get to see the set on special occasions(!) but will hopefully be always made available for exhibitions (along with appropriate 'empire' motive power!).

The Silver Jubilee set is in the paint shop at the moment so we're all looking forward to seeing that speeding through Grantham, hopefully later on this year!

You've had me reaching for my reference books with your number (69843). Are you planning a project to recreate an A5 then? (nice) The A1SLT would be suitably impressed with your P2 icon picture!

Hi there,

As with many others over the last few days, I have enjoyed the sight of the new roof going on. The eye level views are wonderfully atmospheric (and I'm sure you will soon be posting us views with not only trains but people, packing cases, chocolate machines, etc) but I also like the great care that has been taken with the roof top details as well. Such details are often a real problem for the modeller as you're always looking down on a roof from above on a model whereas prototype pictures are from the platform looking upwards and show scant roof detail. I'm liking the gloriously and apparently random nature of the different roof angles, vents, chimneys etc, so typical of a traditional railway station.

In terms of the great 'cheque book' debate then if the arrival of the roof has given you great satisfaction then you need no further justification. And needless to say I totally agree with you in terms of the prototype approach!

Some nice stock and photographs. Which book(s) are the captioned pictures from ?

The Horse shunter is the best ,sadly no idea of origin of vehicle GN?. I would think it a Perishable type vehicle from the amount of vents. I have a similar GCR Meat van on the go at the moment from D&S

Thanks Mick,

The book that the captioned pictures are from is 'LNER Steam at Grantham' by Rev Arthur C Cawston. It must have been written with me in mind! Published by Wild Swan in 1987, it's long since out of print but worth keeping an eye out for in second hand book shops. Rev Cawston was assistant priest at the distinctly tall-spired St. Wulframs's church in Grantham 1930-1932 and he obviously loved his railways. Many of the pictures are from the early thirties therefore. As well as pictures, there's also some narrative sections which are quite interesting and enlightening.

I'm pretty sure that the vehicle the horse is shunting is in fact a horsebox (correction - I've since been informed that it is in fact a prize cattle wagon!). Note the large 'stable' type doors and lower loading ramp flap, also the windows of the groom's compartment at the far end. I've seen pictures of similar vehicles being shunted on/off the rear of southbound trains at Grantham, close to where the associated (horse) landing stage was alongside the old platform 1. The trouble is the bewildering array of different types. The new-ish Parkside kit looks lovely but is of a type that was only introduced in 1938 so it wouldn't really be right to have loads of those. I'm grateful to have acquired the D&S one pictured, even if it's of a different type, as it seems far more typical of the period (or am I being too picky?!)

Time for some stock details – everyone loves stock (especially locos), don’t they?

As I mentioned in the opening post, I’m lucky to be able to call largely on the collection of a friend who is an LNER ‘nut’ (he has a considerable collection of stock but nowhere to run them); however, I’m keen to have a bit of stock of my own. I hope you enjoy this parade and there’s one or two requests for help along the way.

Let’s kick off with my signature loco: Gresley A1 4479 ‘Robert the Devil’

Here is the real thing in all her glory on Grantham’s turntable in 1933. She was one of three of the first production batch of 10 Gresley A1s (1472-1481) that was sent new to Grantham in 1923 and, stayed the longest (until 1942) so she was a ‘must’ for the layout. In fact, as 60110, she returned for a further six years 1951-1957. Looking at this picture, was there ever a locomotive that so effortlessly combined grace and power as a Gresley A1/A3?

The model version photographed from a similar angle. Yes, it is a ‘just’ a Hornby ‘Flying Fox’ renumbered but I’ll point out a couple of things. First of all the addition of front lifeguards, unfortunately not too clear in this photo but makes quite a difference to the pre-war front end view. Secondly, I’ve added the black to the outside of the wheel rims (they’re plain metal on the original model) which makes the otherwise exquisite white line stand out more.

Here is fellow Grantham stablemate 4494 ‘Osprey’ (apologies the sun went in at this point!) She was also allocated new to Grantham, in 1938 and was one of a few that were outshopped in apple green. As there are plenty of garter blue A4s to call on(!), I was rather taken with the idea of a green one as ‘mine’. There was a bit more work involved here as the starting point was a Bachmann A4. Although it was already in apple green, the boiler band lining was a horribly over-size single white line and the wheels weren’t lined. Other details added include front guard irons (again), full length drain cock pipes, the footplate grip steps (above the cylinders) and lamp brackets. She became ‘Andrew K McKosh’ after the war – I think I prefer her in this format.

Just to prove we do have garter blue A4s(!), here is ‘Empire of India’ with a full 10-coach teak rake, all super-detailed Kirks, the exquisite work of Roy Mears. Despite the apparent clash of colours, there’s something quite appealing about the combination of garter blue and teak, don’t you think? The owner will not allow the roofs to be weathered in any way!

More attractive colour combinations as the ‘Coronation’ heads south through Grantham. The northbound train is headed by non other than 2751 ‘Humorist’ (an A3 right from the start); if you look closely you can just make out the double chimney but it is not otherwise depicted with any of its hideous pre-war smoke-deflector experiments.

Here’s my triplet set, which always seems to get a reaction. There weren’t too many of them but happily their operation was concentrated on the ECML and not just as part of the Flying Scotsman sets so use of a set on the layout is quite prototypical. It is in fact one of a collection of old PC Kit teak coaches I acquired some years ago (pre-Grantham) which just goes to show you should never throw anything away! They came with some rather poor running white metal bogies so I simply substituted some Bachmann ones which you can very handily buy separately. Teak wheel centres and white rims are a must!

Moving down the pecking order somewhat here is a depiction of a delightfully mixed bag of stock that seemed so typical of the local services of the era. Increasingly ousted by the Pacifics, the Atlantics apparently found much gainful employment on such services. The origins of this Atlantic are uncertain(!) but it appears to be scratchbuilt. It has obviously had a hard life so it’s currently ‘in works’ to hopefully make it fit for a further tour of duty on Grantham. Behind it follows an ex-NER brake composite (probably downgraded to all third class by now), my composite 6-wheeler (Bill Bedford kit), a Kirk Gresley all third (sadly now eclipsed by the recent magnificent Hornby offering) and my 6-wheel brake third (Bill Bedford again). Only one coach with toilets and not a corridor to be seen!

And now my first plea. If you can tear your gaze from the Atlantic(!) and concentrate instead on the stock. Behind the 6-wheel brake is a fully articulated 5-coach local set. But this is no quint-art; instead these are delightful Victorian survivors, re-cycled by Doncaster carriage works for further service. They were formerly 6-wheel and 8-wheel (rigid) vehicles, formed up into rakes like this in lieu of new vehicle construction (a telling symptom of the depression years of the ‘20s and ‘30s). And by the looks of the white roofs and wheel rims it’s been recently outshopped! My question is – how best to go about creating a set like this? The centre three are former six-wheelers so I could order some more off Bill, but the end brake vehicles are a different proposition. Any suggestions? (a few 6-wheel brakes wouldn’t go amiss either!).

Here’s some Non-passenger stock. On the left is of course the well-known Chivers 4-wheel brake; coupled to it is a slightly more exotic vehicle, being the D&S ex-GNR horsebox. I acquired the kit for this earlier this year and prioritised its completion for the April test run day – the paint was still wet on the day!

Whilst on the subject of horseboxes, I couldn’t resist sharing this picture. First of all this is a larger type of vehicle. Does anyone know origin and more importantly whether there’s a kit of one? The idea of a horse shunting a horse box is delightful! I’m tempted to build a vehicle around a Black Beetle motor bogie and fix a stout piece of wire to a scale horse and have it shunting up and down somewhere… (perhaps not top priority just yet though?)

Not forgetting freight wagons of course. Here is a little selection of kits I’ve made so far. Cattle wagon (Parkside), Coal hopper (slaters), RTR iron ore wagon (I’ll come back to that), 13T hopper (David Keen white metal kit, brake van (Parkside). But the reality is that I’m only going to be able to portray a tiny slice picture of the near infinite variety of wagon types to be seen in the 1930’s, most of which would have been at least 20-30 years old and thus rooted in the pre-grouping past (for which kits are even harder to come by). The research for this aspect of the project is particularly challenging.

This picture illustrates the conundrum. Grantham was of course famous for the iron ore traffic originating at High Dyke, some five miles to the south. The archetypal image is of an O2 with a train of steel bodied mineral wagons. But this 1930’s view (passing Grantham south box) appears to be very different. For a start it’s an O4 – apparently, the O2s were only drafted onto the iron ore traffic after the war, having been displaced from their longer distance workings – and it’s a completely uniform rake of, well, what looks to be the RTR iron ore hopper wagon above! Can anyone confirm this? And what could be the lettering on the wagons in this picture? Or perhaps this is a complete red herring!

To end on a light hearted note, this is ‘Liverpool’ – all my own work! Despite not being really ‘right’ for Grantham, she’s become something of a favourite. The component parts were acquired in a somewhat piecemeal fashion and she is something of a hybrid – what you’re looking at here is a Cornard white metal loco body, running on a Jamieson chassis kit, coupled to a tender from a Replica B1! As I had all the parts anyway and at the time we lived on the Liverpool side of Warrington and my son was something of a Liverpool (football) fan(!), we decided to build it as ‘his’ loco for Grantham more as a bit of fun than a strictly accurate/typical loco for the layout.

The kit elements are really from a previous age; the whitemetal parts were quite crude, with many moulding imperfections and with only a passing resemblance to the dimensions on the drawings! Yet, somehow, once assembled and, most importantly, the attractive LNER green livery applied, the model seemed to ‘come alive’ and its deficiencies are surprisingly concealed. As a Darlington built loco I painted her in Darlington green (ie a somewhat darker hue) together with the distinctive painted cylinders. Lining is the usual HMRS (Pressfix) transfers, although I once again added the all-important wheel lining by hand. As the paint was drying, Hornby announced their intention to introduce the B17 to the range. There’s no justice in the world…

Well, hope you’ve enjoyed this canter through some of my stock considerations. Any comments and information you may have will be most welcome as always.

‘Robert’

I have added a photo of my extension, from 15' (4.5m) to 20'(6m apx). Based in the NE, Newcastle area.

I will have to start my own thread I think, so that means more photos and work on the layout.

Mark in OZ

You should start your own thread - that look like one hell of a station being set out there Mark!

Really enjoying this thread, not least because I have a sort of intention ('sort of intention'; is that what they call 'aspiration'?) to build a model of Grantham in exactly your period, though I am still stuck on Tallington and that's not going as fast as it should as I keep having to go to work.

All of which is to say that I am jealous/admiring of the fact that you have cracked on and are doing a great job of something that I have been dreaming of doing for a couple of years now.

You ask about platform design; you are perhaps already aware of this superb resounce; http://www.lner.info...php?f=15&t=3429 but if not you may find it useful...

Thanks George, glad it is of interest.

Yes, I discovered the Grantham thread on the lner.info forum some while ago. People very helpfully post pictures on there and I can sometimes catch a glimpse of some of the platform building details in the background so I am gradually getting a picture of how the buildings were configured on the down side. So if worse comes to the worse I should be able to put together a reasonable depiction. But it would be good to have some definitive drawings nonetheless...

Good luck with Tallington.

more pics please, I'm missing my 'fix' of Grantham. Anything from the loco depot and more of the southern approaches, goods yard etc.

 

If track laying has slowed down, I'm happy to help speed it up!

Thanks for continued interest Dr G-F. I wish I could build it quicker but I currently work full time and what you see so far is the result of five years effort. Currently the layout is packed up following the first complete set up and test running in April, but panicketh not as this is just a temporary hiatus whilst I complete a house move. Fingers crossed that I come out the other side with a dedicated space to have all or part of Grantham up at any one time so as I can continue the development.

In the meantime, it does at least give the chance to catch up a few rolling stock projects and the work on the buildings (hence recent posting). So, for now I only have a finite stock of pictures of the layout. But, seeing as you asked so nicely(!), here are a couple more of the south end.

I quite like this one (from the April test run). This shows the arrangement of the various running lines and sidings to the south of the station. The Atlantic is on the Up main (heading to London). To her immediate right is the Up goods relief (which continues alongside the Up main all the way up Stoke bank) and further to the right is the Up goods reception line. Beyond that, on the bare area of plywood will be the Up goods yard (when I get round to building it!). Reading across to the left is the Down Main (obviously), followed by the Down passenger relief which gives access to the back platform. If you look carefully, you can see a slight kink in this line as it passes the signal. This is deliberate as, from study of the prototype, the real thing did this, presumably to maintain clearances around the signal post! To the left of this are two carriage sidings. At this point there is something of a compromise as they did not in fact branch off from the down relief as I have depicted; there was actually a further line parallel to the down relief - but I have to compromise somewhere. Finally, the two lines to the left are part of the goods through lines. Where the good train is sat is the up and down goods line itself with a loop line alongside. As you can see, beyond this there is currently a rather unsightly gap! This is where the Down goods yard will go, so at the moment neither goods yard is in existence! The pointwork bottom centre hints at how the goods yard lines will fan out from this point. The Atlantic incidentally was a visitor on the day and it ran superbly for about half an hour continuously with not a murmur. The stock was a bit of a random mixture but actually looks quite convincing nonetheless - that's two 12-wheel clerestories at the back!

Looking in the other direction, but from the opposite side of the line, these are the junctions that South box controls. The K2-headed coal train has turned off the Down Main and is accessing the up and down goods. What might not be immediately apparent is that the fourth wagon the train is astride a double slip; via this a train can alternatively be routed onto the down (passenger) relief here so there are in fact three choices of route at this point. These were guarded by a glorious three post junction signal whose (somersault) arms were set high up to aid sighting from behind the Great North Road bridge - I'm looking forward to tackling that signal. Also of note is that the train is traversing the other 'super scissors' I referred to earlier; you can see the trailing crossover joining into the down main in front of the fifth/sixth wagons. This arrangement allows for a goods train to be recessed to the 'lay by' siding behind and then subsequently rejoin the mainline to continue its northbound journey. In front of all this is the sequence of trailing crossings and slips that forms the exit from the down goods yard. Via this arrangement, a goods train can access either the up main or, perhaps more likely, the up goods relief. This all looks quite comprehensive but is actually somewhat of a reduction on what really existed here - for example, there was also a separate up main to up relief facing crossover. Finally, the crossover at the bottom left signals the end of the up goods reception as it rejoins the up goods relief. The straight on route (where the tracks just end for now) will form the entry into the private sidings for the Ruston & Hornsby works yard, which will add interest at this end of the layout.

As you can see, the development of this end of the layout is minimal other than the tracklaying. It is my intention to have the station and north end reasonably finished before tackling the south end.

Hope this is of interest for now; as you can see, there's still plenty to be getting on with.

Hi all,

I thought I’d post a few details on the buildings for Grantham, as I’ve been working on a few of them recently. As with other aspects of the layout I’ve tried to find a balance between producing a reasonably correct portrayal and producing them within a fairly quick timescale. So nothing particularly revolutionary here (I think). I also have a few pleas for help as certain aspects of the prototype continue to elude me.

Most of the buildings on the ‘Up’ (to London) happily still exist so prototype research has largely involved wandering about with a camera – it’s the details that have changed over the intervening 75 years. From my photographs, I’ve produced drawings from which the models are built.

Here is what I call the main station building (the only two-storey building at the station):

And the model version:

Several things will be immediately apparent. Firstly, the model is condensed down slightly in a longitudinal direction (ie not all windows have been replicated). As the length of the platforms on the model are somewhat shorter than scale length then I’ve tried to scale each section of the buildings down proportionally so that the overall effect is hopefully convincing. The other noticeable difference is chimneys! I’ve become somewhat obsessive about them with the Grantham project. The modern day building seems to have all the stacks in place but there is not a single pot to be seen so they all must be blanked off. I’ve therefore had to scour all my reference books to try and get an idea of what pots existed. They seemed to have been square section pots, for which I found a supply courtesy of Dart Castings. Also, the original had six stacks in total; I’ve modelled four. Selective compression again.

Here are the next group of buildings (going southwards) and, being part-built reveals my secrets (such as they are). The shell is 1mm card (I was lucky enough to inherit a lifetime’s supply during a depot clear out, hence the printing on them) to which is stuck Metcalfe red brick sheets (the thicker ones). The combination of the two give a reasonable depth to the window and door surrounds. The windows are from some pre-printed acetate sheets (Modelling Windows from www.modellingsupplies.com). With so many different sizes and styles I simply choose the ones that are closest to those required and design the rest of the building around that. All pretty basic stuff really?

Moving further along still and this is the only part that remains of the goods shed

Here is my representation of it, with the surviving end prominent. Again, you can see how I’ve lost one of the window bays to maintain the rate of compression along the whole length of the buildings. Interestingly, this building has still got its chimneys (yet to be painted)!

This is a view of the building from the ‘business end’ (ie where the wagons go in). For this building, I elected to use hardboard to create a more robust structure, given that wagons are going to be shunted into it(!) Plywood or MDF would do just as well. My reason for using hardboard is that the rough side (facing inwards), when painted, gives a fair representation of brickwork (quick and simple again). As the main shed building has now been demolished, all the details shown here have been derived from photographs where possible; and second-guesswork otherwise. This is the back of the building (ie the non-railway, non-visible side) and pictures are virtually impossible to come by. But I’m quite pleased as to the overall look of it (just need to paint those valances). Sods law a clear picture of the original will turn up next week!

And here is the effect when all put together. This is about half the platform length (four feet). The raised area in the centre is where the steps will go for the footbridge. At the right hand end, along the wall of the goods shed where the plain area is, a further set of buildings have yet to be constructed. These are very prominent (along with their various chimney stacks!) in pictures of the south end. The platform surface uses Metcalfe pavement sheets which I always think gives a more pleasing appearance than modern tarmac surfaces (again the research shows that it was flags in former times). I’m fascinated by the different architectural styles of the original, emphasised by the window and door lintels. Reading from left to right are shallow arches, then semi-circular arches, back to more shallow arches and lastly flat lintels with tapered ends. All points to things growing like topsy.

Moving away from the station itself, this group of cottages are at the foot of the station approach road. According to my research these could well be former railway cottages (anybody know for sure?); apparently the building two further along up the approach was the station master’s house.

And here is the model version. A little funny story here. I have prepared some of these buildings as ‘kits’ which I then given to my wife to make up. Having made this one up (her first), we had cause to be at Grantham, walking down the approach road. When we came alongside these houses she did a double take and said she was sure she’d seen them houses somewhere before…before realising that they were the ones she’d made the model of!

Of course I also need some non-railway town buildings and this terrace row is destined for the area behind Harlaxton Road bridge. So far, everything I’ve shown has been scratchbuilt to suit the location but in this case I’m using a sort of kit. It actually came as a free gift with a modelling magazine some years ago (possibly Model RaiI but I’m not absolutely sure) and I’d packed it away in my ‘scenery’ box and forgotten all about it. So in this case, it’s more representative than faithful replica; but it seemed too good not to use. As the originals were demolished many years ago, this doesn’t seem to much of a compromise (anyone know whether the real terrace had a name?)

The ‘kit’ (once again reinforced with my faithful 1mm card) actually only provides for the walls. Chimneys and roofs it seems were optional! I’ve used Wills pan-tile plastic sheets for the latter, this of course being a classic style for the area, as a quick stroll around the town centre readily demonstrates. It appears that a lot of town buildings are also in a lighter shade of brick than the station buildings so the ‘kit’ happily seems to suit this.

Finally, a bit of structure modelling. This is Harlaxton Road bridge. Shown from the town side this view clearly shows the road guide wires – those beneath the bridge obviously needed to be put in place before putting the top on. The side wall of the bridge is MDF on this occasion; however, the interior walls are 9mm plywood. The two inner ones are in fact part of the structure of the baseboard (the plywood continues below the road surface from font to back.

Here the internal arches have been put in place, more Metcalfe sheets, again necessary before putting the deck in place. Prior to this, the road surface (plain grey card) has been stuck down. Note how the fifth arch as appears from the front (viewing) side only goes part way into the bridge structure.

This view shows the finished effect at the station end of the bridge (what’s that B17 doing on a Nottingham service?). ‘Station Garage’ is I admit pure fantasy (another kit with a modelling magazine). In this case it is permanently fixed to the baseboard and its purpose is to disguise the road system exiting from the front of the layout (vehicles will then run underneath the full length of the loco depot to re-emerge at Springfield Road!)

Now for a few pleas. Whilst details of the ‘Up’ platform buildings are relatively easy to work out, those on the ‘Down’ (island) platform are proving very tricky, mainly because they’re all long since demolished. I can only snatch the odd detail here and there in the corner of pictures. They seem to be of wood construction (as opposed to the brick of the other platform) but more than that I cannot tell. So if anyone knows any more or has any plans showing details of their construction then that would be most helpful.

The other detail I’m unsure about is colour. Most BR views show the paintwork as cream (yellow) and green. www.stationcolours.info states that the LNER colour scheme was stone and deep cream with brown, but in 1937 the brown was replaced by a mid green (right in the middle of my period!). I’m wondering if that in effect remained into BR days or whether the BR era days show a different scheme.

Hope some of this is of interest. Happy to hear any comments folks may have.

‘Robert’

Hi there,

Just discovered your project. Despite very different era, interesting to see another layout using Peco trackwork to represent a real location. Looks like the real thing lends itself well to this. The layout at the east end look instantly recognisable. Nice work.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58826-grantham-the-streamliner-years/

Just found this thread (as a Nooby).

Difficult to add to the superlatives already stated. Just goes to show that, with will and determination, more or less anything is possible. Look forward to seeing more (and seeing it in the flesh one day)

(by contrast my offering has a viaduct of a mere five arches - and its really a bridge anyway

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58826-grantham-the-streamliner-years/)

Hi Iain,

Fortunately, I have been able to put my hands on the 1937 Railway Gazette article more or less straightaway so please find enclosed for you (and others) to enjoy.

RG article.pdf

Trackplan.pdf

Unfortunately, in my youthful naive-ity I only kept the pages that interested me(!) but it was fortunate that they chose Camden as a 'sample' depot...

Although a full 25 years prior to your era, the pictures give some good general depot detail. And just look how tidy everything is!

Fantastic stuff! Did you manage to fit the super scissors to the standard 11’ 2†(@45mm) track centres? It's something I've always fancied a go at, since it was relatively common in the steam era. I'd be interested to see how you butchered the peco turnouts to fit...

Alas no, Dr G-F! I think it's time for the soldering iron and copper clad sleepers to fit a 'super scissors' within 11' 2" track centres. However, my version does fit nicely within the wider 15' 2" ('10 foot') track spacing (ie where there are more than two running lines). You might not have spotted it yet, but there is another one on the layout alongside South Box (there were two there on the real thing!) and this does indeed fit in the space between the Down Fast and Down Relief lines.

Jukebox has also asked for some details on point modifications so I'll sort out a further posting in due course but it might be a few weeks yet as the layout isn't set up just at this moment.

If I could exhibit Grantham tomorrow then I'd be there! In reality, I think it will be some 18 months minimum before the layout is anything like ready for public display. The pictures showing the full layout were taken in April this year when it was assembled for the first time for test running as a complete layout. Top of my 'to do' list at the moment is:

1) North end Up side bay platforms (yes Jonny777, that's the Lincoln bay), which I believe was the old No.1 platform; there will also be the horse landing (short platform) alongside it, as I'm planning to replicate attachment and detachment of horseboxes from the back of trains.

2) Construct the final depot board, get turntable up and running to give at least the bare bones of an operational MPD

3) Install the two main southbound junction signals at North Box (one for ECML, one for Nottingham lines); both were somersaults in the 1930's. That might not sound like much but the associated wiring and relay panels that go with them will pretty much sort out the remaining interlocking and control logic for North Box. I have to do wiring in little bite-size chunks at a time as it's my least favourite aspect of the hobby (although it can be quite rewarding when it all 'works')

4) At least some basic scenic ground cover between Harlaxton Road bridge and the respective tunnel mouths at the north end of the layout.

So, as you can see, plenty to be going at in the immediate future! I might however, if the opportunity presents itself, look to do a further private trial running session again so that might provide an opportunity for viewing. Keep watching this space (but not too hard!)