Clive Mortimore

Hi Phil I am not is the same league as those gents, they are premier league. I am Blue Square Bet Conference South league (well that is the divison Chelmsford is in). I never met Monty Wells, I wish I had. He always seemed to get published an article on the loco I had just made the month after I had finished. As for Mike, when is he going to make a kit of a shunter that I do not have.....what is that he has.....Ok one day I will buy the Ruston and Hornsby 165DS 0-4-0DM, they were Stratford locos. Tim is another person I have not as yet met, I would love to discuss model diesels with him. Another influence was Peter Kazmierczak, his series of articles in the Model Railway Constructor were informative and showed us average Joe's what could be done. He had a small depot layout before I built Pig lane, anyone remember what it was called? Thanks Phil for your kind words. Clive

Cheers Tom As Phil (Scottish Modeller) has mentioned it did do a few shows, mainly local to Essex. The furthest it got was Bolton (and what a great weekend that was). Hi Phil I took a few snaps of it but they are no where as good as Ian's photos so will not be shown on here, plus it means I have to find them. I didn't think I was part of any ground breaking thing. I wanted to model what I trainspotted, so I followed Mike Cole's example and built my own. Mike Cole was building diesels back in the 1960s when everyone else was mourning the passing of steam. Another great infulence on me was Kim Fulbrook, some might know his name for some fansatic railway photos in the 80s and 90s. Kim was a member of the Witham club when I first joined and he had scratch built a Class 15, a Class 47, a Class 105 unit and a Class 100 DMU all from plastic card. A material I was use to using for making wargames tanks. Another member of the club was (and still is) Pete Hayward. Despite being a steam man he had done a few diesel conversions of RTR staock, a Toffee Apple type 2, a skinhead Sulzer type 2 and a split headcode type 3 long before these sort of conversions appeared in the model press. When building Pig Lane I was able to pick the brains of Ian Metcalfe who at the time was building Pengwynn Crossing. That was a ground breaking layout.

Not only did Mr Futers have luck with the locos being moved for him but so did Mr Metcalfe on his visit to Pig Lane, the shed forman managed to get the passed firemen dispossing of locos to form up this line up of English Electric types. Left to right, Lima, Triang (modified), Hornby, homemade, Lima. All were transferred to Hanging Hill, the type 2 is part of a major renewal programme of sctrachbuilt Baby Deltics, the Type 3 has been re-chassised with a Lima one and is waiting a body up grade, and the Deltic is on the work bench as part a tiro being made scale length. When first built I had a vision of making the layout multi regional, but as time went by I slowly replaced the generic buildings with ones based on ER practice. I still had loads of off region locos. Well here is a batch of ones that seemed to have climbed over Hadrian's Wall. The Clayton was still needing numbering, I think it did get numbered as a Tinsley loco in the end. It is a pity that the lubricating oil tank wagon is blocking the view of the Hunslet 153 hp tram loco D2951, another one of my own efforts. Otherwise what a lovely photo. Pig lane was never liucky enough to have the Bachmann or Hornby 08s so it had to do with Horby Doublo/Wrenn and Lima 350 hps. I have withdrawn all of these from regular service. The Lima loco in the photo, D3850 is still on the books at Hanging Hill. As a trainspotter it was resident at Bedford my local station and at some time it was given the chalked on name of Steve same as my brother. Two reasons for keeping her. A Sulzer Bo-Bo D5278 returning to the LMR. This is the Hornby model with a Craftsman conversion kit skillfully added. I saw this on John Dutfield's secondhand shelf. What mad person would want to get rid of this model I thought as I passed the cash over the counter? Well the model maker who done so was our Colin http://www.rmweb.co..../user/63-colin/ It remained a favortite of mine but did fall victim of my loco stock downsizing. I had 30 odd BR type 2s and had save some that would be seen on the ER, sorry Colin D5278 was not chosen over a Bachy pair I kept. I also got rid of my 3 Hornby 25/3 conversions as well. Who ever ended up with Colin's class 25, if a member please let us know how she is doing? A diesel depot cannot go without a photo of a Brush type 4 1/2. I started this thread with a shot of a loco coming on shed, well to finish the photo section a Type 2 leaving for its next duty, a class 1 passenger tain to a destination on the London Midland Region. I will post how I operated Pig Lane just like the real thing. A big thank to Ian Metcalfe for taking the time to spend a morning in my back garden with his camera all those years ago. Cheers mate.

Hi Dave Thanks. Only a few more to post. I have had the slides ever since I collected them from Boots back in 1994, today while doing my weekly que in the bank I popped into a photographic shop and they put them on disc for me. They were taken to be shared so that is what I am doing. Oh for wide scale use of digital cameras and PCs back then. Some vistors from other regions. The Bo-Bo type 3 is the Lima one with (I think) Westdale high level pipes. D6580 was the only green type 3 to have these pipes. I no longer have this loco, it was sold in a downsizing of loco stock a few years ago. The Bo-Bo type 2 will appear again so I will give details on this machine then. The brake tender is an ABS kit, the best brake tender kit on the market, with Gresley bogies far better than I have seen on any LNER coach kit. Just a nice view of the layout. The brake tender in this photo is a Mopok vacformed body. It has a wooden floor. It was too tall when I first brought it had I had to cut about 3mm from the bottom of the body. The tank wagons used at this time are the Hornby models. Can any one explain why when viewing my present layout and train of these are on it they look more like the real thing than the very good and detailed Bachmann wagons? I Know the Bachmann ones are better but the Hornby ones look right on the layout. A quick mention about the tanks in the photo, they are the Kibri model with a new bung wall around them. I put a higher safety rail around them as the HO one looked too low. I also replaced the steeps with ones that were at a spacing that looked more suitable for 4mm scale. The pumps outside was not BR practice, normally these would be in a small building. Further research showed that they did not look anything like a pair of ER tanks. This photo appeared on the front of the supplement so may look familiar to some people. The shot replicates a photo of Shirebrook shed by Ian Futers in Rex Kennedy's " Diesel and Electrics on Shed, Volume Two-Eastern Region". I was asked where did I get the dimensions for the shed building from, I was showing the chap asking Ian Futers' photo telling him it was as good as you could get for making a 4mm model, when a voice from the crowd said "I took that photo". Panic now get out this hole Mortimore went through my most used side of my brain. Equally as fast the sensible side of brain trust my right hand out in an act of friendship and as we shock hands I thanked him for taking the photo. Ian then went on to say how the drivers that day moved the engines for the photos. Weren't some depot visits great. If you have the book both the real location and the model have their clocks at ten minutes past four.

Some more of Ian's wonderful photos. With all the glass of a ER shed interior detail was a must. The loco behind is D4502 master and slave, coupled cab to cab as there were when they were rebuilt. The donor locos were a Lima 09 for the master and a Hornby Doublo 0-6-0 for the slave.......the anger in a collectors face when I told him about the slave unit and that the box was at the local council tip. Just ooooozzzzes Eastern Region. The shed vist on these young lads big day out spotting. They are modelled on my best friends and me. the one in the shorts is Steve my brother who always had to tag along Busy time on the fuel points. Thank goodness we got rid of that lot...time for cup of tea

Cheers David

A few more photos of locos built for the Pig. D8409 pre dates Pig Lane by almost 10 years. It has a Hornby ringfield motor jammed in its cab, it runs more like a 4-4-0 than a Bo-Bo. And yes will be getting a Heljan one to go with it. The shed is also scratchbuilt based on those found at Colchester, Hitchin, Shirebrook and Temple Mills (Marsh Lane). It started with the Peco diesel shed, an excellent (very) small version of Bounds Green HST shed, not really a good representation of a early 60s ER modernisation plan building. D2325 a Mainline 03 converted to a Drewry 204 hp, using a Craftsman kit, passing by with a fresh batch of fuel. This loco has had quite a few chassis, it seems to donate its running/working one to some lame engine. I think at the time it had a scracthbuilt one. It did have a Gibson 03 chassis, that came with horn blocks for compensating or springing but had fixed coupling rods I have driven the real D2325 at Mangapps Railway Meusum http://www.mangapps.co.uk/ Some of the locos under construction at the time of the photos. The LMS Co-Co became 10001, complete with yellow panel. The Clayton was my second one, it is one of the two Rolls Royce enegined locos with the raised engine rooms, it has a Tyco RS2 chassis under it. The Swindon 0-6-0 is Construcsion (Spelling??) Kit. It has not progressed very far since the photo, just like the real thing I had no need for it. The D600 was completed and is still on the Hanging Hill allocation despit it was never an ER engine. It was made from two Class 29s on Hornby 47 bogies. The LMS loco has the same type of power unit. At the time of the photos I was still making the canteen interior. Everything is scratchbuilt, even the chips Doris is serving. The building has been reused with Hanging Hill. At one show this chap said to his girlfriend, "Have a good look in there". She must have been his girlfriend as wives being dragged around an exhibtion would not wear such a low cut top. Anyhow she bent down and I done as her boyfried suggested.

Thank you Stewart. Now might be timely to show some of the locos I built in my Pig Lane days. A Ruston DS88, NER departmental locomotive number 84. This little fella runs on a Tenshodo motor bogie, it has two speeds go and one made famous in a song by Meatloaf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4MFxcFofkY never mind it was a lot cheaper than http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1. The Big LMS 350 Jackshaft was made before I had even heard of Judith Edge Kits. The drive wheel of this class loco has the same number of spokes as the driving wheel and its diameter is the same as a tireless driving wheel. You should have seen the look of the shop keeper when I asked for 4 Romford axels and seven wheels In this row of shunters resting for the weekend we have D2701 North British 200 hp 0-4-0 scratchbuilt, D2201 and D2281 Airfix Drewry 204 hp bodies on Triang Nellie chassis and D2591 a Hunslet 204 hp on a Mainline 03 chassis. A Southern Maunsell 350 hp shunter. Note the drivers discussing that they will black this locomotive, not because it is from south of the Thames but it has no handrails so they can get in the cab.....nearly 20 years on and it still has no hand rails. The rebelious drivers are also homemade from Miliput. I got fed up with seeing the same few figures on everyone's layouts and had depleated my wargames armies of suitable figures for conversion for various club layouts so I made my own.

Hi Ian Leader of men....there are a lot of lost souls out there For me both Pig Lane and Hanging Hill have been what I considered the highlight of a trainspotting trip, the shed visit. Of course a depot layout does mean that a modeller can display his/her locomotives, and many of us are locomotive modellers first, railway modellers second so depot layouts are ideal for that. I just feel that TMD layouts are today's Great Western Railway branch line terminus , lots of them and many to high standards but like many a GWR BLT was bypassed by me in the past because of their contents the same is being done by other modellers to motive power depots. A pity really as many GWR BLTs were good layouts. Clive

For those who do not have an interest in small sized diesel depots, I am sorry but this was one of the early ones to be built, exhibited and published, so I am partly responsible. Little did I realise the number that would be built after it. Pig Lane Diesel Depot was built in the late 80s early 90s and was scrapped when I started to build Hanging Hill. The base boards were falling apart, it was the third layout that they had supported and were never that well made in the first place. The baseboard top was the side of a tall cupboard my first wife no longer wanted in our flat's kitchen. It measured 66 inches by 19 inches. I designed Pig Lane using good old Peco templates and a few locos to check siding lengths and clearances. This series of photos were taken by my good mate Ian Metcalfe for an article that appeared in the then supplement of Rail, Model Rail in April 1995. For its size I managed to get quite a bit in and was able to, in the words of an ex Stratford driver, "Operate it like a real depot". Sometimes I wish I had not rushed headlong into building a bigger version, Hanging Hill but made a similar sized depot based on Pig Lane but with slightly less features. To start with a view of a DP2 entering Pig Lane. The loco was converted from a Lima Deltic, one of my very early conversions. With this shot Ian managed to make the scene look busy without anything happening, much like some people I have worked with. Another lovely shot by Ian. It just feels like one of the small sheds on the GNR line with the diesel classes presented. Today many modellers could reproduce this with models available but in the 1990s I was one a small band who modelled the classes we wanted, one of the Baby Deltics and both BTHs are deformed sheets of Slater’s plastic card, in some circles they would be called scratchbuilt. D5900 is a Triang type 3 cut and shut. An aerial view showing the track plan from the fiddle yard end. I will post more photos later on.

Note to self. Dust of the fillings before getting cammera out

I always intended to backdate the Lima 37 to have cowls fitted. After too many years this week end I got down to it. The reason for not doing so earlier was I did not like the Lima cab windscreen, it is too flat not thruppenee shaped so that was also delat with. The side grilles, tumblehome and flat roof profile were not touched. I hope the photos show what i have done. Corner post removed and front filed back. Backing for cowl fitted inside body. Chassis altered new windscreen and cowls fitted Now waiting filler, final shaping and new buffers Once filler has been added and smoothed I will do an update.

Hi Stefan It looks very nice. I have been following this thread for some time and I like the way you have shown us how you have built the loco as you have gone along. Clive

In the signalling book I mentioned quite a few pages in the chapter on Telephone and Telegraph Line Construction are on the use of stays and struts. If anyone thinks this should be on this forum I will start a new topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure so Alan can have his topic on his wonderful layout back. Please PM me. Clive

Hi Nick Did you read my post regarding why the poles are placed on the inside of the track?

Hi Alan 65 yards was the normal distance between poles. This could be increased to 70 yards in exceptional cricumstances. On curves it could be reduced to 60 or even 50 yards. As Mike stated the poles would be on the inside of the curve, if there was a wire come off or a pole is pulled over the running line would not be fouled. The spacing of 55 to 70 yards would give many model railways far less poles than they seem to have. From the table I referred to, at 20 degress Fahrenheit, 55 yards span the sag was 10 1/4 inches, 60 yards it was 12 1/4inches and at 70 yards 16 3/4 inches. For 400 the figures are 55 yrds 12 ins, 60 yrds 14 ins and 70 yrds 19 1/4ins. 600 55 yrds 14 ins, 60 yrds 16 3/4 ins and 70 yrds 22 3/4 ins. 800 55 yrds 16 3/5ins, 60 yrds 19 3/4 ins and 70 yrds 27ins. Finally at 1000 55yrds 19 3/4 ins, 60 yrds 23 ins and 70yrds 31 1/4. That is for copper wire, cadmium copper the sag was slightly less. As you can see the sag would be 6-8mm for a layout set in sunny Devon. I think that is noticeable, others might disgaree. Oddly enough it does not give the sag for 65 yards yet the same book says this was the normal span.

Hi Alan Regarding wires on telegraph poles, they were not under tension and had a very defined sag in the centre of each span. My memory of travelling when lineside telegraph poles and wires were in place was of this quite hypnotic effect of the wires gently going down and back up again between each post. Cotton or fishing line may be better for getting this effect. The sag varied depending on the temperature, material the wire was made from, and the distance between the post. I have a book called Railway Signalling and Communications which going by the photos and adverts in the back is pre WW2 with a table of what the sag should be at a given temperature and distance if the wires are correctly installed. If you are interested I can send you the information.

Earlier today I PMed two track plans to Andi, one was for 1919 for the GER societies Diagrammatic Map of the System and the other was a link to http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html Search for Ipswich when the map appears place the drawing pin on the Derby Road Station. A selection of maps in 1:2500 and 10:560 of differing dates is shown. The 1954 1:2500 gives a very detailed plan. The maps can be purchased in PDF form for £16 which for a detailed track plan of a location is not too expensive.

Andi How about the Middleton Press book Branch Lines to Felixstowe and Aldebrugh http://booklaw.co.uk/eshop/product_info.php?cPath=58_143&products_id=1710 It is of no help me saying I lodged in Derby Road and then later in Felixstowe Road over looking the sidings when I went to college in the 1970s. It was in my wine women and song part of life so didn't take much interest, plus it was quicker to catch a trolley to Electric House than to get the train. One like this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/86020500@N06/7905166908/lightbox/

Hi Ian The sketch resulted from information from all sorts of sources including chatting to fitters from Stratford. It was drawn for an article I half wrote regarding ER diesel loco sheds. There are too many model loco sheds where the buildings, operation, track layout etc. do not match the supposed location. Yesterday I saw a layout of an ER location with the Bachman two road diesel shed on it. The Bachman shed is a compromise of the two buildings at Ebbw Vale depot in South Wales. To me it looked wrong, it would be like renumbering a Hall loco 61042 and calling it a B1.

Hi Ian Have you seen this Pathe news clip http://www.britishpa...ury park diesel it was taken in 1960 when the depot was new. Thanks Guy for the link.

Hi Ian I used brass screws so that I get them all the same height. I made a simple plastic card gauge for measuring the height and adjusted them by screwing them up or down accordingly. A large wattage soldering iron is needed to heat up the screws when soldering the rail to them. If I were to be doing another shed with raised rails I would use slightly smaller diameter and a longer plain section as there is too much thread showing on my ones. Here is a sketch showing the working levels inside a ER loco shed.

Hi Ian and BD Like my Hanging Hill depot building, Kier's depot is a 4 road version of the "standard" ER greenhouse shed. All were based on the same basic dimensions, for example side wall height, same angle of roof pitch and track centres. Non standard were Ripple Lane servicing shed, which was flat roofed, Stratford that had concrete girders not steel, Immingham and March both had taller side walls and March again had narrower window panes. The DMU sheds at Stratford, Lincoln, Norwich and Cambridge did not have glass fronts but corrigated sheet, these were a slightly earlier build than the loco depots. I see you have acessed the Network Rail Archives drawings for Finsbury Park, I might have to get some copies myself. A book you might want to get hold of is " Diesel Depots the Early Years" by Hawkins, Hopoer and Reeve (IBNS 1 871608 01 5), it contains quite a lot of background information as to why the Er built its loco sheds differentcly to the other regions (or why the other regiopns did not follow ER practice). A couple of Hanging Hill photos. Some 47s outside the shed, Lion and Falcon are pre Heljan scratchbuilt locos. Inside the shed. The Type 2 is a Triang Co-Co cut and shut. The old Hornby diesel servicing shed was a good two road version of Ripple Lane, pitty they did not make it a three road shed then it would have been perfect.

That naughty baby Deltic geezer needs his bottom spanked, he should know that the rebuilt baby deltics had their tripcocks removed

Having just read the post in this topic a lot of people seem to be inspired by the same layouts. I hope this shows these are excellent layouts not just modellers jumping on the band wagon. I can only think of one layout that really inspired me not that other layouts have given me food for thought on modelling, presentation, atmosphere etc. My inspiration was Sundown and Sprawling by Mike Cole. Mike wrote a few articles in the late 1960s about his layout and its stock. Here was a modeller scratchbuilding diesel locomotives, the same locomotives I was trainspotting. If Mike could make a diesel locomotive maybe one day I could. Well I did but don't have to anymore as all the classes I have wanted have been or will be produced