Andy Hayter

I think there are a number of reasons why French Magazines are more expensive than UK ones. Advertising as you suggest. The latest BRM had 167 advertisers in the edition. I doubt if there are that many French model shops and producers - big and small. VAT - remember that with the exception of the British Isles, VAT is generally charged on books and magazines across Europe. That automatically makes a magazine 20% more expensive. Staff costs - I know the number of staff on a magazine is not that high, but those that they do employ will be costing the publishing company perhaps up to twice what a UK publisher pays due to the very high social costs (health, insurances, pensions and employment taxes). Plus corporation taxes on any profits made. [i guess these high costs get passed on all the way down the chain - publisher, printer, distributer, sales outlet.] Perhaps of interest as another comparison is that when I was in Germany the cost of model magazines there was if anything more than the French ones - although the quality was (depending on your interests and viewpoints) perhaps rather better. In the end though, I guess it the whys do not matter. Fact is they are a lot more expensive.

or you could make a couple from Parkside kits www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112617-buildingbodging-some-secr-brake-vans/ It really is an easy build and pretty accurate for all but the most discerning rivet counter.

While I do not disagree with you thoughts, the problem when looking at animal welfare is that the average speed once they got going is unimportant. The average speed from loading to unloading is the critical number.

One other thing easily forgotten regarding handling of animals (and note I forgot to mention it in the post above): the railways were surrounded by stockmen and indeed employed many stockmen. Any onward delivery from the goods shed was by horse and cart or wagon. Rail wagons were often shunted by horse and capstan. So I think there would be no shortage of people expert in handling horses, cattle or sheep in transit.

If stock was moved from the wagon, I doubt that it went further than the pens on the dock. Certainly not turned out into fields IMHO.

Which ones Gordon? I know Voies Ferrees ceased last summer.

I'm not. The dancehall was so late in SECR history that the only locos that would go with it are the grey liveried ones - so a Collectors version of the C class and the P Class when it arrives next month. What would be somewhat more appropriate would be an earlier version brake van that could go with the above as well as the green C Class locos, the H class and the green P class. Many of these also lasted into BR days and so the opportunities for livery variants and a bigger market are there.

Is there a case for some of the larger shows having an artisan trading section? An area where small stands allow small producers to air their wares to the wider public. Warley seemed to have something a bit like this but I have to say I was largely disappointed with the range present there. Such an area would have to have significantly reduced stand rents to make the effort of attending worthwhile for what are often one-man bands. A few of the bigger French shows operate in this way and they are used to showcase new and planned production - a mini Nuremburg for the small producer if you like and these new releases are widely published in the French model press, so the exposure to the public is doubled.

I don't agree with that with respect to most rtr wagons, where the standard is generally dire. There are I am sure exceptions, but generic 10ft wb steel underframe 4 wheelers with owners' logos that disappeared when the standards were 9ft wood underframe are legion. Use of RCH 1923 designs for wagons purporting to be pre-grouping is another problem. And building a wagon kit to a good standard is not difficult. Many good examples exist in plastic and require few special skills to complete to a standard well beyond anything currently available as rtr.

Jol to be honest, and despite my post about hoping for models of stock that would fit with the pregrouping locomotives, when I buy the loco, I am already beginning to look at the options for stock to go with it when I order the locomotive. This of course may be some years before it actually appears. Are there kits available? Do I have any scale drawings? - needed with a kit as well as scratch building. If I don't have any drawings, is there a source - old model magazine or a book covering said stock? If so I get it. Prepared, it is then down to when do I have time to start modelling. The physical availability of the model, or its pending physical availability, is often an incentive to push particular projects up the list.

How long to wait before building your own stock rather than waiting for a rtr version? A good question and sod's law would say not quite long enough, you start the model and then Dapmannby announce it as rtr but so far I have been lucky. 2 x SECR brake vans from 1900/1910 vintage built from Parkside bits and no kit or rtr on the horizon, one GCR 10t brake scratch built and the closest is a Mousa kit that has been on the stocks for at least 4 years. The LYR coaches are still in their boxes (kits from Wizard and D&S) and so far no competition - but then that law says nothing will happen until I start to build them.

Well not quite the same but I do buy things hoping they will produce complementary items. I bought a Bachmann Wainwright C class hoping they would produce a 1900 version brake van - although I know I can use it with the birdcage coaches as well. I bought a Locomotion LYR radial tank hoping they would produce some coaches. I bought a GCR J11 again hoping for a GCR brake van. But when they don't I build my own.

I think it is true that most modellers cannot afford to build the layout they would like - it certainly applies to me and I would count myself as probably better off than many modellers. Hornby. nor any other manufacturer big or small is a charity designed to allow me to build the layouts I want. As it happens I buy relatively few rtr models for the simple reason that relatively few cover my interest an in addition many of those that do (and the ones that I buy) need some form of modification to fit my needs. I hope therefore that my comments are not centred around personal preferences but around pure commercial arguments. So facts are: Hornby are making a loss and have done so for a number of years - which may not be down entirely to model railways. However if that continues they will cease to exist in their current form. Hornby did introduce Design Clever and it has had a mixed response in both terms of quality and price. Dunsignalling above suggests that use of old moulds is the way for Design Clever and I would not disagree necessarily although it is interesting to note that those models that seem to have sold well (but may not have yielded big profits) are those where new tooling has been used - Crosti, BIL, DoG and maybe the P2. So from a purely commercial viewpoint, I have to repeat, if more Design Clever (aka cheap) models are produced by Hornby, where are the extra sales/margins going to come from to pull Hornby out of a loss making situation. The fact is that Model Railway companies are not like supermarkets. A two for one offer does not get customers through the doors to spend the rest of their money in the store.

and LB&SCR H&B L&YR G&SWR HR GNoSR let's face it 0-6-0 - and more so tender 0-6-0 - is an overlooked wheel arrangement by and large.

Two excellent posts from Mike and Chris. (#226 and #227) Chris's examples are having a cheap version of someone else's model and if sales have been cannibalised they have come from a competitor. A loss of sales of the full fat version has done Hornby no harm at all. The key point that comes out of these discussions, and I point it directly at all of those who have strongly supported a cheap range, where will the extra sales come from if there is a cheap range in parallel with the full fat one? And, unless you are putting your modelling budget away in a war chest, the answer is not, "me". Those that complain they cannot afford the high price of models today but are still spending their modelling budget cannot provide extra sales (in terms of spend) for cheap versions. All they can do is divert their budget from one set of models to another, where they end up with more models but the manufacturer probably ends up with no additional profit and possibly less profit. Will cheap models attract more newcomers? From the young I doubt it. They are more interested in their instachat programs on their eyefones. So it comes down to would cheaper model attract more newcomers from the adult population? It is a question I cannot definitively answer but I doubt if there would suddenly be a flood of latent railway modellers. Mike writes And, just to spell it out, would they increase their sales volume and make a bigger profit on model railways if they did adopt such an idea - because in business terms that would be the only justification for it. Based on their past form I seriously wonder if they're up to it, although......... and this is the one point where we slightly disagree. I don't think it is down to whether Hornby can manage such a double range, but rather down to whether the UK Market is able to support such diversification. That lack of Market size is I think one reason why Hornby have had mixed messages and have reacted with hindsight inappropriately and created the muddle that Railroad now seems to be. So I repeat my question to the pro-Railroaders in a slightly different way. If Railroad models became more numerous, how much more would you spend per year? Unless the answer is at least twice as much, then the argument for more Railroad models is less than strong.

Vicat softening point for Polystyrene is 90 C although the melting point is around 240 degrees. What this means in simple practical terms is that above 90 degrees mouldings are likely to be distorted rather easily. This can work two ways, so I would be tempted to work at a temperature below 90 (say start at 70 and work up to 80 as needed) to avoid unintended distortion while you are trying to correct the warping.

What is that Specsavers ad? No not £20.80 - £28.80. More like 17-18 wagons for break even - and by then your transfers will have run out, your cement might be getting low as perhaps the paints, so not break even at all. Yes if you build 50 wagons you will be ahead on costs - but not by much, but you will have had an enjoyable year making something(s).

I understand your ire. After all you could have bought a Cambrian 7 plank open kit for a mere £4.80. Of course you would have needed some wheels - £3.70 from the same source. Oh and perhaps some bearings - better than Hornby with bearings, but let's skip that. Ah but then there is paint - you could get away with grey and black acrylic - £5.60 for two jars Tamiya (other good makes available) Then you will need some liquid cement to put it together - £5.00 (Tamiya) and some transfers - £8.75 (Modelmasters) oh and a couple of couplings - £0.95 (Ebay Hornby style) So 28.80 for your first wagon kit - no gold Cadillac, no dancing girls and we have not even priced in your time - which I always consider as free anyway. You will at least have some cement, paint and transfers for another kit at a later date if you so wish.

Sorry to be picky but neither model is 00 both are H0 - but they will run on 00 track. I agree that the smoking coming from video 1 suggests that there is oil where it should not be. If that is the case for 1 then if the oil is on the traction tyres of video 2 that will also explain the problem of poor traction - not that Lima models were ever noted for exceptional traction. the second video is exceptionally unhelpful. I can see (I think) the worm turning but whether the wheels are turning or not is still a mystery

I think I am right in saying that in a few exceptional cases empties were sent to foreign locations to collect goods for locations their own system. One of these exceptions was fish (predominantly herring). Herring was a very seasonal "crop" starting on the west coast of Scotland, moving north and then progressively down the East coast port by port and ending (?) in Great Yarmouth. Many of the young women who did the treatment (gutting and layering in wood barrels) actually migrated south with the herring. So it is possible - depending on the date and time of year - that these are open fish wagons, sent empty to collect the barrels of gutted fish. Edit to add that the on shore work included packing in a salt cure.

I agree that transhipment would seem unlikely, but I really have to comment on your train speed. Up to say 30 something is probably being optimistic. [LNER freights frequently travelled at 25mph essentially max speed 25-35 years later - heavier trains but also more powerful locomotives.] You also overlook the very real issues of priorities for freight trains, which meant that all too frequently at the first possibility that they might impede a passenger train, they would be shunted off the running lines and then wait until the next free pathway. Waits of several hours were not uncommon. To show how things progressed over nearly a century, an analysis of SNCF freight wagons was made in the late 1990s. The average speed of a wagon while in use (carrying goods) was a mere 25kph. Did things really get worse or were these speeds fairly typical in an earlier age? You can see why prize animal were sent in special wagons attached to passenger trains.

I am not sure I would change anything Gary. It is important to remember that this is a works and not just a loco shed. So there will have been built-in headroom for lifting large bits of metal as well as room for the cranes/lifting gear themselves.

Or applying a French twist to the idea; add wooden shutters to the outside. When closed virtually no light gets in. You can open the windows for ventilation but leave the shutters closed if you want to restrict the light coming in. They latch from the inside and so provide another layer of security (in fact our house insurance is significantly reduced because we have shutters fitted. And if you ever come to sell up, open them up and make the shed (sorry pied a terre) look attractive. One question that has not been asked - unless I missed it - which direction will the windows face? If to the North then you really should not have a big problem with light - probably still wise to take some precautions however.

I have now gone through a number of reference books and the pictures (not surprisingly) agree with the above. I was not expecting to find very much Double Champignon (bull head) but in fact I only found one shot - and even that not totally clear, but given that it was Reseau Breton and your quote above, I feel more certain. Many systems seem to have used more than one track system with parts chaired and other parts spiked/screwed and in some case tramway style track for street working through villages and towns. There seem to be two systems for spiking/screwing. One seems to involve spiking (actually more probably screwing) directly into the sleeper and using the lip on the screw to hold the vignoles (FB) rail to the sleeper. In many cases however there seems to be metal clip (rather than a chair proper) that is screwed down and holds the rail in place - again with the lip of the screw overlapping the flat of the rail. I was expecting to find the dual track sections of the Vivarais at least chaired - but this bit of track seems to use this clip system - and for the SNCF rails as well! From the pictures I have looked at spiking/screwing is by far the most used system - quick cheap and easy, if perhaps not as durable as other systems. Pictures of the DF de La Mure confirm the chaired metal sleepers at La Mure, but (most of) the rest of the system seems to be spiked. Also earlier pictures are less obvious about whether these metal sleepers were in place, so perhaps my guess on the reason is completely wrong. I should explain what I meant by two phase above, since I am sure the term is completely wrong for an electrician or someone so minded. The original system fed +1200V DC down one wire and -1200V down the other - given it's DC I guess there re no phases. Sources consulted: Les Chemins de Fer du Vivarais - Arrivetz Le Chemin de Fer de La Mure - Wormser La France a voie etroite - Dahlstrom

With probably nearly 20,000km* of track at its peak and almost all of it being built under local direction, the answer is just about anything and everything. (* the quoted number is 22,000km secondary network track but some systems were 60cm gauge and a few were standard). Many were lightly laid spiked vignole (FB) track. Some were much more heavily laid with chairs. CF de La Mure used metal sleepers for at least part of the line - possibly because the original early line was 2 phase electrical supply* and used the track as the return. The original was steam hauled but rapidly converted to electrical supply - somewhat strange for a line built primarily to carry coal. I will seek out a few references and see if I can give some more meat to the answer. * Edit: see commentary in my subsequent post about what I meant by 2 phase.