Beatty 139

5 hours ago, Armchair Modeller said:

How about this one

 

This image has caught my eye before because of the wheels, sadly you can’t read the name it could be Wellington 176 of 1865 or Himley 7 of 1859 as all the others are photographed and have what I think are backwards T spoked wheels, I don’t think they are H spoke having studied the various images. The rebuild of Victory has T spoke wheels and does the other 0-4-2 reputedly rebuild from Round Oak which I can’t find any reference too or Lord Ward which is another lost in a vail of mystery.

 

i don’t think it is Himley as Brandon and Countess also of 1859 both have good clear images with T spoke wheels 

2 hours ago, Ruston said:

In all but one photo (the last one I posted on this page) the rods are down, with the crank pins in the six-o-clock position, so it's difficult to see whether or not there was a part of the frame behind the rods. I'm leaving it in because if it's not there the frame plate, at the point where it's slotted for the motion bracket, is less than a millimetre deep and it will surely bend or break without it.

Yes the whole thing is quite light in construction at that point the from what I can see the stretcher and motion plate all are one which would have no doubt help the whole loco, I do wish that lad wasn’t posed there in that photo to give a clue as to what was going on around the mounting of the cylinders and the front end.

On 08/11/2019 at 18:36, Ruston said:

I have made some of the patterns for the Lord Ward type 0-4-0.

Are you sure that there is a section of frame between the horns, after hours of looking at photos of these and what other builders did at the period I am kind of convinced that they did not.

On 16/03/2019 at 12:33, Gordon A said:

The steam brake on a shunting loco would be the brake to use, quick to apply and quick to release.

Using the reverser would be a no no as LMS2968 explained.

The hand brake is only good for parking a static loco. To slow to apply and not enough force.

On the industrials I have driven you want at least 100lbs showing on the clock, preferable a bit more.

A lot of industrial loco’s especially older/smaller ones 10”/12” cylinders only had hand brakes and no steam brakes, also quite a few of the smaller bellow 20T industrial diesels were hand brake only. 

Just have to be handled with care and kept well adjusted.

Fowler’s DM’s have clutch brakes, well my 80hp one does and getting it set up right is the key to easy gear changes, later Fowler DH use standard Wiseman final drives.

I'm still looking for a definitive account of this. Which coalfields produced the best coal for which purpose? For instance, where did the best coal for gas production come from? I realise the question is complicated by individual coalfields or even collieries producing a variety grades of coal.

 

Where is "Coal and how to burn it?"

It’s not always an area thing but a seam by seam thing some seams produce good coking coal while one or two above could be good house coal.

 

When I started in my industry we still have quite a bit of coal fired heating and steam rasing plant and coal quality was important and a well understood science, if you have a dig around you should find some old coal board publications that would answer a lot of your questions.

1/32” will on the whole design itself when you scale from full size as the gauge/body proportions match, you will have to make some allowance for wheel standards being not quite to scale.

 

Now when it comes to 10mm scale you need to do a lot more engineering, as the frames are not to scale, it was done to give bigger boilers and larger outside cylinders (but is a bit of a pain for inside cylinder live steam locos) work out who’s bearings you intend to use, work back from the back to backs of the wheel set standards and build in a few thou of side play then you know your face to face dimensions of the frames, however if you designing a loco with a smoke box saddle or exposed frames above the foot plating this will need to be dummy as they will not line up with the actual working frames and will look wrong if you try.

Really nice job that.

RSH were long time perponents of the idea and Beryl at Tanfield was built as recently as 1953 and has a direct reversing Crossley engine.

Don’t forget the Stephenson Crossley used a direct reversing engine, so why not at this early stage in internal combustion loco design ?

I am sure I have read an article on these in a copy of the Engineer via the Gracie’s Guide web site.

 

I keep hoping one day they will scan and add the Railway engineer to the list of publications they have.

I’ve been slowly working on building and gathering information for one of these Hudswell Clarke Locos I have a few things that are still sketchy and still seeking more information.

 

I was wondering if anyone had access to the BR driving manual ref 33003/32 that covers these locos and if it includes any information or diagrams that might help.

Yes I am lead to believe that Aston Manor have one (now at Aldridge) sadly the hell that was domestic duties at Ikea resulted in me not making it there in time.

Many thanks.

I have been asked a question by a Modeller not on RMweb about the inside frame colour on the NBL Ried altantics, I was just wondering if anyone knew what it should be?

And No.NER 13 has a small book about it - and the proposed main line electrification. I used to have a copy, but it might have wandered.

 

Chris H

The Railway that never was is the book I think, I have just gone to look for my copy but can’t find it...

And No.NER 13 has a small book about it - and the proposed main line electrification. I used to have a copy, but it might have wandered.

 

Chris H

The Railway that never was is the book I think, I have just gone to look for my copy but can’t find it...

For a bit of closure as I'm not sure Larry frequents this thread (if anyone will know, its coachman), the coach pictured is most likely a LNWR diagram 333 general service non-corridor brake third. Without an image of the builders plate to narrow it down even further, it is one of 154 coaches built between 1913 and 1923 in several batches. Delving far into RMweb past while researching bits and pieces for a project of mine dug this blog entry up ~

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6151-blog-dave-holts-blog-d333-comparison/

That agrees with the vintage carriage Trust record on this vehicle.

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=595

At the moment I would say the jury is out on the Bristol Road picture. I would say definitely between Selly Oak and Northfield, there were two bridges like the one in the picture in that section IIRC. By the shadows and position of the trolley poles possibly heading towards Northfield in the morning.

Having spent the last 14 years driving that way I would agree it’s in the dip with Bornville lane to the right and that’s the corner where imperial house is now

Unfortunately Birmingham's unfulfilled expansions are not well documented.

I have a few tram books and there isn't any mention of proposed expansions that weren't carried out, although plenty of info for those in surrounding districts!

That is not to say there weren't any, they just seem to have been lost in time.

Selly Oak to Cotteridge seems reasonable as it would have run along the Outer Circle 11 (established 1926) bus route from one depot to another.

 

The Birmingham network wasn't particularly well balanced with no cross city centre routes at all

Passengers wanting to go from the South to the North would need to walk between termini e.g. Navigation St to Colmore Row/Snow Hill Station

 

BCT fell out of love with the tram early on (1930s) so that could be why it appears it was not fully developed network-wise in the same way as e.g. Glasgow

Tram revenue/passengers peaked about 1924 and fell into decline after that, so the system took just under 30 years to "die" completely.

 

Keith

I have been offered a number of drawings saved from BCT by a draftsman who was working for the PTE and rescued them from the skip, as yet I have not collected them but with all these archives you have to wonder what treasures are likely to appear, it’s never ceases to amaze me how many proposed drawings survive compared to the stuff that was regularly used.

One I haven't posted before is Birmingham Corporation Liverpool Street Garage/Depot

Which is now NXWM Central Garage:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/255WivRNcWH2

https://goo.gl/maps/Fu24E5pddBt

 

Athough it includes "Tramways" above the doorway AFAIK it was never a tram depot and wasn't on a tram line!

 

EDIT

It was opened in 1936 when trams were still common so maybe there was a plan to keep trams there as well but the openings don't look high enough.

 

Keith

Birmingham has quite a few plans that never happened a few years ago while dealing with a power supply issue for the day job and working with Wester Power Distribution I questioned the slightly bizzar distribution arrangements on Oak Tree lane Selly Oak only to be told I was rewired before the war ready for tramway operation between Selly Oak and Cotteridge, a line as far as I was aware was never built. Not suppressing the regular issue with power supply in that area are not helped that that prewar, German lead and paper insulated cable is still trying to do the job in 2018!

I’ve been asked to engrave some Birmingham Tramcar door glasses, but I’m not quite sure about the artwork I have been given and while making the effort in the first place would rather get It right.

 

Does anyone happen to have an image for a BCT etched bank key ?

Yep. My question was rhetorical, but that is the fundamental point.

 

Using coal at a power station to generate electricity is not only more thermally efficient, but it is also easier to control the emissions, than burning it in the firebox of a steam locomotive.

But the capital investment upfront is quite expensive.

Part of the common sense approach of the NER is they enetered into agreements with the local electricity companies to supply the power to the railway so unlike others did not have to invest in building them.

I started building a 2 car 1904 Tyneside set but sadly with a house move and total refurbishment it kind of stalled and got as far as building the two coach bodies but really does need reviving as a project.

Tyneside system was superb from the outset.

I always thought the one at the ELR was new to Woolworths. At least the ICI ones at the Midland Railway Centre are still with us; ISTR that the Chasewater were so careless as to allow the frames of the former Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway example to be stolen by scrap metal thieves!

And a wheel set, sadly when the pikeys turn up alsorts go we even lost about a 1/4 of a mile of track that was at the rear of a row of houses but no one thought to call the police.

20 and 40hp petrol locos we’re 2 or 4 JO W H Dorman units, later these were updated as a model to the JOR which were an updated model with separate ‘Recardo’ heads. The JO was a WD subsidy engine.

Diesels were often Dorman 2 or 4 DWD units but others are used.

Sadly The Dorman of Stafford name was lost a few years ago following take over by Perkins.

 

Dorman also provides the route that W G Bagnall enetered the English Electric, in that Dormans purchased Bagnalls then English Electric purchased Dormans.