Beatty 139

The G1MRA do produce a very well presented mag 4 times a year and they have a good network of local groups across the UK and world for that matter, who organise regular local get togethers. The G1MRA also put on two shows a year the AGM one is unfortunately Members and guests only but this year the spring show was open to the public hopefully that will continue to be so. The one thing I would say is the G1MRA operates with a broad church policy so it does cover all aspects of the gauge/scales, if you have one specific interest you might feel it isn't for you, you would only know by giving it a go. Personally I don't think it's an expensive group in respect to it's membership fees. On the subject of goods rolling stock there is more stuff coming in reasonably priced RTR although it does tend to be in 1/32 scale and is coming on the second hand market if you keep your eyes open, 16T minerals, oil tank wagons are both very common, but for anything else it will be down to a secondhand buy, kit build (goods stock is very well covered by the kit market) or scratch build. I would recommend talking to people in G1 already though because there are some real howlers of kits out there especially some of the etched brass ones which started in 4mm were poor when taken up to 7mm and are far worse by the time they get to 10mm scale, the worst of it being they are not cheep! Andy

Having had the pleasure of working on A No.5 as a student when volunteering on the North Tyneside Steam Railway I have always had a soft spot for the class and they have been on a one day to do wish list for many years. It's nice to see one in model form. Lovely job.

Simon is quite right in what he says, Aster are built to 1/32 as are most of the commercial G1 live steam locos coming to the market, however most G1 live steam locos that you see running are built to 10mm scale, if you remove the commercial products I would say at least 90% are 10mm they are also most likely to be Meths fired where as other than Aster most commercial locos are now gas fired. Gauge 1 is a broad church and some fabulous models are made in both scales and enjoyed, so far no one has mentioned 1/29 that the american produce some models in such as the Class 66 diesels. Track standards are again as Simon says another issue, most Gauge 1 modelers work to the standard this is fine and some work has been done to improve running such as reducing check rail clearances on crossing noses, the code 180 rail supplied by Cliff Barker is a great visual improvement over the old code 200 standard, but if you go to G1 fine track the back to back changes restricting you to only running on fine track. I am told that Peco G1 is still produced in 1 3/4" gauge which is fine as the standard allows + - 0.5mm. The issues with Gauge and Scale should be no obstruction to you enjoying G1 and are no worse that any of the popular scales and in fact far more easy to navigate than HO, OO, EM, P4 etc. Find your local G1 group and go see how everything looks to make your own mind up over what your happy with. The only Gauge I am aware of that doesn't have these issues of scale hanging over from the past is Gauge 3, but that's really big at 1/22.5 Andy

The 10mm v 1/32 debate will run on and on for many more years years to come and both scales will continue to rub shoulders. The key issue is what you want to model. A 1/32 post grouping loco hauling a rake of modern (post 1922) coaching stock that fill the loading gauge built in 10mm scale will look odd as the coaches will dominate the locomotive, however a BR standard say in 1/32 would not look odd (except for context) with a rake of 10mm scale pre grouping 4 or 6w coaches. When it come to goods stock if your looking to run in the pre BR period the verity of prototype sizes largely renders the scale difference largely unnoticeable. The growth of 1/32 is largely being driven by RTR manufactured in china where as live steam is very much dominated by 10mm scale and I don't see that changing any time soon, So no answers just food for thought,

Hi Peter, I have been following this thread with intrest, and it's largely inspired my efforts in G1 with what I have now christened 'Prudence Works' as a test bed for some 10mm scale ideas. If you have any cad skills drop me a PM as I would quite happily help out laser engraving the chininey for the material cost, I too have been pondering on the square, round or other shape option while lurking around the back streets of Birmingham and the black country.

I presumed is was induced magnetism due to the some what huge output of the BBC LW transmitters beaming R4 across Europe... Funny things happen round those parts!

I do like the term Brain Fart..... I suffered from this some 20 years ago coming out of a siding protected by a trap point, an experienced shunter, who was operating the ground frame, had such a 'brain fart' decided he had set the road wrongly after calling me forwards, just as the loco was onto of the trap and yes I watched him do it with no way of stopping, worse still a chap was there with a video camera to catch the lot.. People can do the most odd things out of character, hence why we have mechanical systems in place so people think twice and still get it wrong.

I'm sure someone will find an example to prove me wrong but I'm not aware that any ever have except in the world of modelling!

I have to say in my experience, brick and concrete are best produced in MDF and for wooden structures I use ply, for fine structures top quality avation ply for things like rough wooden items like sleepers I tend to use poorer grade ply or even solid timber to let the corse grain come through onto the model, this would largely still be relevant in small scales like 0(7mm) although as you get smaller like 00 I think the benefits of using high cost ply compared to MDF starts to deminish given that grain in 4mm and below is so fine that it would be hardly visible, and to scale that the denisity of the wood would limit you to quite exotic hardwood vaneers, maybe worth it for coaching stock say be possibly not worth the effort with structures.

Hi Dick, the article by Orson Carter published in Railway Bylines volume 1 number 5 (Aug-Sept 1996) states the loco was finished in Black with red and White lining, in pre NCB days it carried the Dugdale family crest on the and copper cap chimney after 1947 apparently it was repainted in midlands area Blue again with Red and White lining. Hope that helps, if it will wait I will pop a photocopy 'behind the counter' at the spring meet.

Hi Porcy The loco is of interest to me as it appears to be a 0-4-0 with no cab, my own full size loco I am restoring just happens to be Beatty, Bolckow Vaughan running number 139 (number retained by Dorman Long) (HL 3240/1917) at some time ran with no cab, looking at the photo the loco appears to have a short tank and the rear block buffers are the same as Beatty's other than being withdrawn from Vulcan st in the early 70's and the fact that she had work there for as long as anyone can recall certainly since the 1950's. Other than the one photo I have found of the loco at Vulcan St poking its nose out of the shed I have not found anything else or a reason why she was cut down at sometime and had the cab removed. So that photo is of great interest, Who operated the furnaces at the time of that photo and do we know a date for the image? Kind regards

Hi Porcy On the original print can you make out any furher detail of the loco in the middle of the scene?

Just to update the group, I finally found an image showing that the BR batch as used at Birkenhead were fitted with control desks and vertical handbrake wheels. https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/5330365229/in/set-72157611785219426/ So it appears that the post by Barry O is most appropriate for the BR locos

I have always been meaning to build an Acrylic clock on my laser, cut some of the wheels and bits but other projects have always been above it on the to do list!

I have a drawing of a 12" Hawthorn Leslie if it's of any use please drop me a PM and I can email the cad file.

D9 had three outings on the main line over the weekend at the Warley show. She finished the running for the show and had almost every wagon we had that was age appropriate and she handled them with ease and just a little slipping on what by the end of the day was a very oily track following two days of steam running. Lots of jobs still to do and shes a long way from finished, but she ran well for a first real outing so should only get better.

She shall go to the ball.... Well D9 is far from finished she needs steps, vac pipes, sand boxes and various bits and bobs externally like brakes, all the interior parts making and a lot of painting and finishing work, but I now have a largely complete model of the first main line British diesel locomotive, time for the above through the winter ready for next summer. Time for me to sleep now its been a long day of modelling with some work mixed in to the middle but as well!

Well I was up at 5am today flatting the body, masking up to give it a coat of body colour, all the frame details are cut and one side has been applied, it was about midnight when I had finished that last night, so no photo or post, the only error is I have made the pony truck springs too wide so the cab steps won't fit, but that will be a quick fix now I have seen the error of my ways. It won't be 100% finished for Warley but it will be close enough! All I can do is thank you Jayson for your inspiration for this project.

well I have had a few busy evenings so far this week. I have finished off the electrics within the loco, added the ESC and radio, the two AA batteries are for the fan circuit and comes on as soon as the loco is switched on and runs, with no visible LED's from the Rx it will be a good visual indication that the loco is on and ready to run. This week most work had been on detailing the body, the only remaining parts to make and fit to the body are the two vacuum pipes. The only other external parts are the works and makers plates but I have only just ordered these so they will have to go on when they arrive. With the first coat of primer I am quite happy with the general appearance of the loco, hopefully a little filling and another base coat should see the loco body ready for some blue on Friday. Last major job is to cut and fit the frame details, although I do have plenty of other work such as the interior to get on with then weathering.

I put a late night in last and borrowed a speed controller and radio from another loco. Battery box has been built and fitted with the cells and the wiring done for the traction circuits. So I popped in down my local club track this morning and put her through some running trials, so far so good she ran for over an hour and would lift 4 Mk1's out of the station with no wheel slip so the springing must be about right. The coaches are not my ones and are to 1/32 scale where D9 is built to 10mm scale (1:30.5) as is all my G1 modelling normally, the two scales are quite happy together but with D9 filling the loading gauge its really exaggerated the difference. D9 should truly be a 'Universal' loco capable of anything that is asked of her.

Yes quite a few were in the Black Country, and South Staffordshire coal fields, and if the pit didn't have it's own basin, the railway often linked to them. What's now the Chasewater railway but was originally part of the Cannock Chase Collery company's lines linked there network of pits to both main line exchange sidings (both MR & LNWR) but also to a number of basins, coal was still dispached by boat to Walsall Powerstation in the 50's I am told. Depending on what your looking for the South Staffs Coal field had few large pits except towards the latter years of it's days like Littleton, Hilton Main, Lea Hall etc. but before that end phase of the NCB hand many hundreds of small and medium sized pits, there are a few books about the areas mining heritage.

I have had a couple of evenings, working on the frames. It's not a fine example of watch making and is more blacksmith than precision engineering but it should be rugged and functional, by building the whole unit off a 3mm aluminum 'plank' it should allow for plenty of experimentation if needed, I have put about 1.5mm of lift into the middle axle and it is sprung to keep it in contact with the rail head. I have made the pony trucks quite simply but with light springs on the pivot point, it might need some work, but for a start it will get D9 mobile, and improvements can be made going forwards. Although the batteries have arrived today (8x4000mAh Nimh sub C cells) the speed controller and receiver have not so I wont be in a position to run her this weekend, as I don't have my own G1 main line track. still I have plenty of other jobs to get on with.

Not much progress over the last couple of days mainly gazing at photos under a magnifying glass until I have gone cross eyed for the roof detail, as has been said before no photos of the roof of D9 appear to have survived, on the whole I am going with the flow, but I am making a few changes. I am adding a vent over each cab, these are not there when new but the appear in the later photos, I am adding a hatch over the control cubical as D8 and indicating that the roof hatches over the engine open left and right as per D8. I am not convinced that is right still but with no better it will at least add some interest to the roof. I have found that changing the Milliput for wheels has made a load of difference and will be the way forwards a nice thing is by using the Fosmotors is that the loco will coast as they have very little rolling resistance.

Yea, I'm finding that the two boxes have quite a lot of rolling resistance ;-) worried if it will have enough umph to move!

After much tea and custard creams at our local G1 meet today, I had some positive feed back on works so far, even if the first comment was "what is it?" I was somewhat transfixed by a live steam Crosti boiler 9F that works as a real Crosti, I am told it should be running at Warley so it's one to look out for. Progress today has been to fit the cooling fan. The fan is powered by a miniature 6mm dia motor/gearbox I'm not sure it was worth it as you can hardly see with the roof in place. I have fitted the roof outer layer and fan grill so now its starting to look much more like a loco now.