Rob F

From my memory of being involved in putting HTA's & 60's then 59's on the LBT/Fiddlers trains, 66's would lift 19 HTA's out of LBT, but were downloaded in the wet where as a 59 or 60 would happily lift 23, possibly more but constrained by the RR loop at LBT. The difference in loadings subsequently became apparent on running LBT to Ratcliffe services, when these were increased to 23 HTA's, a 59 couldn't get up Caverswell bank, but a 60 would.

How  would a 70 compare to a 59 or a 60? I know they have a higher rated power unit than either but are they more in the mixed traffic mould of the 66s or a heavy hauler like the 59s and 60s?

 

ROB

The rail tops have started to rust very quickly!!

Was in Carbis Bay on Boxing Day and the rail tops were already orange after less than 36 hours since the last train.

 

Rob

 

 

 

But what would an extra sea defence further out do the beach and therefore the tourist trade? It is incredible how much a small change, such as extending a pier a few extra metres out to sea, can have on the shoreline. A sandy beach can disappear over a few years, if the measures are not carefully thought out. That wouldn't help the local economy for sure.

=======================================================================================================

 

That crossed my mind too - the beaches around Dawlish are not the biggest in terms of amount of sand available from what I recall - so they can't build a wall too far out otherwise the beaches will virtually disappear which would make it pointless going to the seaside there in any case.

 

I'm no structural engineer for sure but maybe a 2nd (outer) wall would give much more strength and not have to be built to far out to spoil the current lovely seawall effect.

 

Having said all that I'm sure NR will just fix the current situation and leave it at that!

 

I think Dawlish has almost given up on being a seaside beach destination already. We stayed there a few times with the kids and it became more difficult, year on year, to find self-catering holiday accommodation anywhere close to the front. The last place we stayed in was on Marine Parade and that stopped when the owners decided to let it out to, as they described it, 'to the Social Security for homeless people'. Apparently they could make a lot more money that way as the holiday trade had dwindled right away. Incidentally, in the 1980s my parents hired a flat on Sea Lawn terrace, right next to where the current breach is.

 

The last few times we have stayed in that neck of the woods we stayed in the camping coaches at Dawlish Warren instead.

 

ROB

News reports coming in that the sea wall has been washed away at Dawlish and that there is damage to the seaward platform at the station.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-26038912

 

 

 

ROB

Excellent pictures.

 

I've always wondered how they get away with so little yellow on the front end.

 

Rob

Cheers Flood,

That clarifies the situation. Both mark3 and mark4 DVTs are shorter than the passenger coaches. The profile of the bodies would change the kinematic envelope of the carriage, therefore C3 restrictions make sense.

Vin

Plausible, but if the body profile matches the stock they are used with, would that not make them narrower than a mark 1, and thus even further away from a C3 restriction as the body is shorter?

 

Rob

Irrespective of what (or not) Wiki says, the data panels on both Mark 3 hauled stock and HST vehicles give the length as 22.57m and width 2.74m - see illustrated examples above.

Yes, but not the DVTs, which are shorter. Compare the Hornby DVT to a mk3 coach and you will see. We also have a photo of the data panel of an actual DVT in this very topic which corroborates the wiki value, so I don't think this is in doubt.

 

So, if we can return to the original question, why are shorter vehicles given a C3 restriction?

 

Rob

 

EDIT. Sorry, early in the morning and hadn't noticed we had got to page 3 and the issue was being dealt with.

Are you saying that the quoted length is incorrect or not? If not, I am not sure the comment is very useful.

Rob

If you look at the picture of a data panel on an actual DVT earlier in the topic it has a length quoted as 18.83m so I think we can take this to be correct. So again, why C3 I wonder?

 

Rob

Don't believe everything you read on Wiki.

Are you saying that the quoted length is incorrect or not? If not, I am not sure the comment is very useful.

 

Rob

According to Wikipedia, mk3 and mk4 DVTs are 18.83m long, which is shorter than a mk1, so why the C3 restriction?

 

Rob

Tut tut, a topic called Essex Express and the only Clacton in it is in the OPs avatar and even then isn't in Essex Express livery... I don't have any photos of real ones but does this count?

PICT0017.JPG

 

Andi

May be OT as the pic is not in Essex, but I photed this 309 in Liverpool St in the summer of 1985.

 

 

Apologies about the quality but my slide/negative scanner has some issues and the print has discoloured over the years.

 

ROB

 

Not a great scan but quite interesting subject matter.On the up line at Trent, having just come off the Erewash Line. Summer 1985.

 

 

ROB

 

 

I have a PowerCab and after a few startup issues reported on here, I have generally been very pleased with it. The short-circuit protection is very poor though for such an otherwise well thought out piece of kit. I switched from an old Lenz Compact, which in all other respects is primitive compared to the NCE device, yet when there was a short all the power to the layout was cut very quickly. The short could then be removed , the reset button pressed and away you go. No need to buy extra devices for short circuit protection, just a very simple system that worked well.

 

Is there any reason NCE coudn't do the same?

 

ROB

Very impressed with the photographs of Nottingham Victoria-I only saw it after closure, just before demolition.  I am sure that the wrong station was closed.  Surmising that redundant lines were removed, and everything else diverted into Victoria, surely this would have been a more practical solution than developing Midland station-especially as the Victoria lines were segregated, and Victoria was orientated North/South?

What revived my thinking on this was the tram system requirement for a new bridge over the Midland station-after the GCR one was demolished.

I have often considered this as well but the problem would be the lack of connections from the GC to other lines. You could get to Derby Friargate and Lincoln would be accessible by putting in the 'reverse'  of the connection that was actually installed at Netherfield from the GN  to the MR but other places would be very difficult to reach.

 

If you accept the premise that one station had to close (which I don't, by the way) I think it is quite difficult to make a case for that station being Midland.

 

ROB

This afternoon we travel as far as York, via Nottingham and Grantham, together with a look at Linby, north of Nottingham.

 

Linby GC C12 67363 Annesley Dido Bulwell Common to Annesley push pull May 52 JVol6123.jpg

Linby GC C12 67363 Annesley Dido Bulwell Common to Annesley push pull May 52 JVol6123

 

 

 

David

David

 

I think JVol6123 maybe on the GN line at Linby, rather than the GC.

 

ROB

You may well ask.  Having thought about it, I have remembered I was born in a nursing home at West Bridgford, on Musters Road.  I've no idea why Dad wrote Edwalton when it isn't.  I do know that sometimes he captioned images using the nearest signal box or station, so that may be the case here.

 

Sadly I can't ask him.

 

David

David

 

Thanks, that is clear now.

 

ROB

A nice mix again this afternoon.

 

 

 

Edwalton compound 1041 pass Nottingham to Kettering May 49 taken from nursing home where I was born JVol6037.jpg

Edwalton compound 1041 pass Nottingham to Kettering May 49 taken from nursing home where I was born JVol6037

 

 

David

David

 

May I ask where the shot at Edwalton was taken?

 

Rob

I thought that Nottingham still had two routes to London - the last time I went there I travelled north from St Pancras and came back via Kings Cross (because at my time of departure it was quicker).  Admittedly no through trains to KX but some good connecting services.

The accepted meaning of through route is a direct service, to me at least. By the standard of the Kings Cross example you could also claim a route with a change at Derby or Tamworth or Birmingham or even Reading (off the one a day Cross-Country service to Bournemouth).

 

Nottingham lost the GCR and the MR route via Melton which I think is unprecedented for any other city (we can get into arcane discussions about Wells and St Andrews but you know what I mean  ). I don't know when the last direct service to Kings Cross ran. I know the GNR ran some from London Road Low Level but I don't know if the LNER ever did after the grouping. Maybe the GNR stopped when the GCR and Victoria opened, over to someone with more knowledge than me!

 

ROB

The pictures of Colwick highlight what a large complex this was and also as a secondary point, its loss demonstrates how savagely Nottingham was hit by the closures of the 50s and 60s. Was there any other large city that lost such a high proportion of its rail network as Nottingham did, including 2 of the 3 main routes to London?

 

ROB

This evenings batch now,most were taken at Loughborough in June 1955 - the wedding guests are part of a family wedding. Dad took the photos of Daybrook as we lived about a mile away and he thought about modelling it. Daybrook top of station approach road c1954 Scan-130526-0009.jpgDaybrook top of station approach road c1954 Scan-130526-0009  Daybrook station building c1954 Scan-130526-0010.jpgDaybrook station building c1954 Scan-130526-0010  Loughborough Midland Jubilee class 45628 Somaliland down ex pass June 1955 Scan-130526-0012.jpgLoughborough Midland Jubilee class 45628 Somaliland down ex pass June 1955 Scan-130526-0012  Loughborough Midland Ivatt 4MT 43045 down pass June 55 Scan-130526-0015.jpgLoughborough Midland Ivatt 4MT 43045 down pass June 55 Scan-130526-0015  Loughborough Midland Ivatt 4MT 43045 down pass June 55Scan-130526-0016.jpgLoughborough Midland Ivatt 4MT 43045 down pass June 55Scan-130526-0016  Loughborough Midland 8F 48606 up goods June 1955 Scan-130526-0019.jpgLoughborough Midland 8F 48606 up goods June 1955 Scan-130526-0019  Loughborough Midland 8F 48606 up goods June 1955 Scan-130526-0020.jpgLoughborough Midland 8F 48606 up goods June 1955 Scan-130526-0020  York old museum NER 910 and 1621 c1955 Scan-130526-0021.jpgYork old museum NER 910 and 1621 c1955 Scan-130526-0021  David

Dave

 

I think Somaliland is on an up train. Fantastic shots again.

 

Rob

We'll spend this evening in and around Nottingham watching trains. Toton up reception sidings 8F 48604 up goods c1953 JVol7119.jpgToton up reception sidings 8F 48604 up goods c1953 JVol7119  Nottingham London Road Junction Tilbury tank 2103 c1949 JVol7121.jpgNottingham London Road Junction Tilbury tank 2103 c1949 JVol7121  Nottingham Midland Fairburn 4MTT 42146 up pass c1952 JVol7122.jpgNottingham Midland Fairburn 4MTT 42146 up pass c1952 JVol7122  Nottingham London Road Junction 4F 4585 up gods c1948 JVol7123.jpgNottingham London Road Junction 4F 4585 up goods c1948 JVol7123  Nottingham Midland 4F 44394 le c1950 JVol7124.jpgNottingham Midland 4F 44394 le c1950 JVol7124  Nottingham Victoria A5 69817 le c1952 JVol7125.jpgNottingham Victoria A5 69817 le c1952 JVol7125  Nottingham London Road Junction 1FT 41686 shunting c1949 JVol7126.jpgNottingham London Road Junction 1FT 41686 shunting c1949 JVol7126  Nottingham Victoria N7 69815 down pass c1950 JVol7129.jpgNottingham Victoria N7 69815 down pass c1950 JVol7129  David

With regard to 7122, I am not certain about this, but should this strictly be referred to as a down train? The mileposts on this section number via the Melton line (and still do) and continue northwards via Mansfield Junction. The numbering via Leicester (and thus 'up') only commences once Mansfield Junction is passed.

 

Once again, thanks for the fantastic pics.

 

Rob

This afternoon we reach the last seven of Volume 1's additional photos, so this evening should be the start of Volume 6.

 

This afternoon's are once again a mixed bag, including a few taken around 1960 when Dad was more often using colour slide film.

 

 

David

I think the train at Arkwright St is heading in the Up direction. I think you can also just make out the brake van of a down goods.

 

ROB

I think 3279 shows a down train. Great pictures again, thanks very much.

 

Rob

Yes, I presumed that's how it would have got there - though I did have to check the closure date for London Road Low Level. What I meant was that I had never before seen any pictures of GN/LNW Joint line trains with LMS/ex-LMS engines in Victoria.

No, me neither!!

 

Rob

IMHO this last batch is the best so far, and there has been some real competition! A light Pacific at Cambridge, and 2Ps at Nottingham Victoria!

The 2P will have come up the GN/LNW Joint line via Melton North. These services were diverted to Victoria from London Road Low Level in 1944.

 

ROB