FourSUB

Big thanks to Hornby for sorting this. Mine now fitted using the replacement screws provided which are thinner than the originals. You'll also find a brake handle in a bag taped to the inside to the new body.

Gould lists 7860/2/70/940/5/8/51/55/8000 as being red/cream prior to the 1953/54 conversions with only 8000 remaining as a RFK. He also has 7934 in r/c but that is shown in the 1953 CWN(link above) as chocolate/cream. In addition 7947 was r/c in 1953 https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=87106&search=Maunsell 7955 retained r/c following conversion, there's a pic in the file I linked previously Transport Library also have a pic of 7858 in 1950 with added saloon end door but retaining the small window next to the double doors https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=86419&search=Maunsell&page=2

Photo of 7951 in 1932, 1930 batch diagram 2651, on page 25 of ftp://gw.winslow.bg/SPISANIA/StreamDays/Steam%20Days%20042015.pdf Kitchen window layout is same as Hornby's 7946. 7951 also has the fixed frosted light and vent at the saloon end in common with the 1927 batch. Graham

When assembling items like solebars that need to be vertical I use a few spots of thin cyano(ZAP thin CA) to hold them. Hold the solebar in place, apply drop of ca to a couple of locations on the back with a pin, it will wick into the joint and hold a few seconds til set. Once happy with the position the joint can be flooded with liquid cement. One benefit of using ca is the joint can be easily broken if not positioned correctly. I'll be practicing later on a batch of Parkside 13T steel highs. Be very careful when drilling out axleboxes for bearings not to go right through, been there, done that! Graham

Fish traffic was moved around the Southern on Van trains so its likely those pictured had either arrived from Kings Cross to be attached to a Van train or empties doing the reverse. Similar occurred at Waterloo and London Bridge. The was a discussion on mainly South Western fish traffic recently on the SRLHCS Yahoo Group. Graham

The King Arthur 6 wheel tenders were 3500 gallon Ashford style with a higher footplate than the Eastleigh type. The only S15 to have one of these was 30847 from 1960 to withdrawal. The S15 4000 gallon 6 wheelers were a flat sided version of that attached to the Schools. In fact the some of the earlier School's tenders were modified flat sided ones that ran with for a while with Arthurs and Nelsons. Urie tenders had flat bottom bogie frames and later Maunsell arched( appearing from 1927). I think there were only 36 of the Maunsell arch bogie version, 10 flare top and 26 flat sided, their history is rather complex! The only photos I've come across of tenders with the 'wrong' bogies are of N15s. 30738 had Urie tender 852 which in BR days had arch frame bogies, this was later transferred to 30795. 30768 received AVR fitted tender 885(ex 3225) in 1932 which was originally attached to S15 30828 and 'should' have arch frames but BR period photos show it with straight frames. Apart from balance weights another thing to watch for is footsteps, these were straight on 30823 to 832 and curved on 30833 to 847. The final ten 30838 to 847 had smaller cabside cutouts to match the flat sided bogie tenders. Graham

Southern as in post 1923 Maunsell era. The first batch built for 823 to 827 were identical to the flared top Urie tenders except for arched cutouts on the bogies(see Bachmann Lord Nelson) and pedestal hand brake. Technically Maunsell built Urie tenders! Flat sided tenders commenced with 833. Graham

Post war it was very common to have loose coaches between loco and first set. Most often Third/Seconds though up West Country trains would often have the catering pair added to the front at Exeter Central. Plenty of photographs of this but not of the other end of the trains where it was not unknown for loose non-brake coaches to be marshalled. See King's Southern Coaches pages 78, 84 and 155 for comment plus details of the Oxted line sets 194 and 767 with the brakes inside the set. Having brakes at both ends of a train was a MoT requirement but it didn't happen in the real world! Working through a 1955 Waterloo departures listing on the SRLHCS Yahoo Group I was surprised to find that virtually all the express train sets did just one round trip a day with a few doing just a single trip and returning empty to their start point. Graham

Correct In 1950 30823-27 had Southern 5000g and 828-832 Urie 5000g bogie tenders, only 838-847 had the flat sided 5000g bogies. All were built with Southern 5000g tenders but they came in both flared(823-832) and flat sided(833-847) variants. Correct Graham

I wish Hornby well with the correct loco to tender pairings! The subject is as 10800 posts quite a story, I spent a considerable time producing a spreadsheet of all the combinations to get my head round it but it still hurts!!! I think only one S15 30847 ran with a King Arthur style 3500 gallon 6 wheel tender. From 1936/7 833-837 had 4000 gallon 6 wheelers that were essentially a flat sided version of that paired with the Schools some of which were originally allocated to Nelsons then ran with Arthurs before being transferred. The original Southern S15 tender was the 5000 gallon bogie that was an updated version of the Urie tender produced by Hornby for the Arthur. The main visible difference being cut outs on the bogies. Only the first five stayed with S15s, the next five fitted with auxillary vacuum reservoirs went to Nelsons then Arthurs being replaced with standard Urie 5000 gallon 8 wheelers. All the rest had the flat sided bogie tender though 833-837 lost theirs to Nelsons and had Urie tenders before the 6 wheelers. 833 appeared to try one of each type of tender including a watercart before its 6 wheeler but then swopped that for a Schools version in 62! The locos themselves are much simpler with only a few variations. Feltham was my local shed so looking forward to the model in later BR condition along with some of the different tenders. Graham

Congratulations Colin, I am impressed with your ability and patience in turning out so many identical detail parts. It certainly looks like the 4-SUBs I watched and travelled on for so many years. Most noticeable from platform level as a train arrived was Bulleid's curved side, the never ending row of commode handles and as it slowed the inner coach ends with the single buffer all captured so well on your model. Don't forget the greasy patch the buffer slid on! The view of 4-SUBs from bridge parapets was a familiar sight too with the now distant memory of lookouts, ventilators and conduits with their inter-coach connections that are all there. If this sounds like an outbreak of nostalgia it certainly is, thank you. Graham

I like this topic! The first passenger train I ever saw at 0 years old would have been a 4-SUB and travelled on them for so many years. Maybe if the NNK kits re-appear I might have to acquire a few sets. Excellent detailed modelling Colin, I'll be watching this one develop with interest. And its going to be the proper livery! Graham

Photo reference in my post 181 on page 8. Several other photos around of early numbered units with this style, an example is 2023 at Brighton in 1968 on page 50 of John Glover's 'Southern Electric'.

The shoebeam looks to be of the correct shape if a little too deep for the early units. NRM photo of unit 1897 on page 23 in Michael Baker's 'The Southern Electric Story' shows this style, unpainted and showing the wood grain. Page 24 has a NRM photo of 2152 with the later style, both units being new. Study of photos shows the early style remained in use and was also fitted to Brighton line express units including the BEL though the other way up with the straight side at the top. I never realised how varied the shoebeams on Southern Railway units were. Used to see the BILs regularly on the Waterloo-Reading services non stop through my local when I were a lad. Travel to Reading meant a change at Staines from the Windsor/Weybridge EPB splitter into the BIL/HAL and make sure you got in the right half if you didn't want to go to Guildford! The coupe was the compartment of choice and I don't remember droopy horns but do recall ex works units with sliver(aluminium?) painted roof. There was a 7 coach unit. 2006 with 5 ex SUB trailers became 7-TC unit 701 in 1967 for Oxted line services usually powered by a Birmingham Type 3.