Dominion

I just happened on a 6 page article in the GERS journal (Number 117 Jan 2004) "Deltics on the GE" by Peter Paye. There are 10 pictures covering 5 of the class and mentions of 7 others. The dates of the trip mentions or photos seem extend from 1962 to 1981. I believe buying electronic back issues on the GERS "Emporium" is fairly simple but only open members.

Ah great, thanks Paul. The photo I was referring to was on a third page from the Journal 61 article, I missed it the first time, as the article finishes its text on page 2, but has that photo over the page. It is the same photo you posted above of the S15 pulling the vans. Yes your version is much better definition than the earlier version I had referred to. Thank you.

Hi Paul, the photo John Watling refers to in the text that you mention is actually on the top of the following page to the 2 you showed. My version of it is from a pdf of the journal from the GERS emporium, it is a bit too grainy to see any livery on the vans. I am wondering if your version of that photo may be better ? Tom

On Paftran’s running issue, you may want to check the cover over the worm gear is clicked down properly on both sides. It makes a definite click on each side. That cover is what holds the worm bearings down and if either end lifts it can disengage from the top gear. It can be deceiving as it seems secure with only one side clicked. This is the W1 set up.

I am most dreadfully sorry. I made a mistake when I posted yesterday. The radius that the W1 was working OK on with the finer flanged wheels was 34 inches radius, not 30 inches as I said yesterday. I hope that hasn't lead to any frustration for anyone that tried it in between. I misremembered the minimum radius in the main line. 30 is the minimum elsewhere.

Hi Paftrain, I have had an issue that sounds just like that on 2 different Hornby locos, though not a W1. With the body off I could see that the worm gear was lifting and skipping teeth on the top drive gear gear in one direction only. With one I put a sliver of plasticard under the rear of the motor to tilt it more forwards slightly. On the other there was a clip fit cage over the worm that hadn't engaged properly on one side which I clicked back in. In both cases the issue disappeared and has not reoccurred. Good luck. Tom

I have been messing around with the trailing wheels again. I don't have the right tools to remove any metal from the chassis block so I can't try anything complicated. I fitted the Hornby supplied trailing wheels I found they rub on the underside of the chassis adding resistance and lifting the driving wheels occasionally. The instructions do say they are for static display only. Instead I tried some finer ones I happened to have (Perhaps Markits ?). These have less deep flanges, slightly under 14mm diameter vs. 14.25 mm for the Hornby ones . I used the same 20 thou of spacer washers to drop the keeper plate again. Success, it just makes it around the 30 inch (I WAS WRONG, IT"S 34 INCH THERE) minimum on by MAINLINE (NOT layout minimum). It is only just as there is one tight spot on the circuit that must be under the planned 30 (WRONG 34) inches there as it binds a little at that point. The inner wheel also lifts a little sometimes but it does not derail. It is more comfortable on the 32 (WRONG IT IS 36 THERE) inch minimum loop. I think it helps significantly that these wheels have no boss on the back, allowing more lateral movement.

Peter Tatlow in book 4A says the arrangement was for 225 vans, ex NER, GC, and GER. I have not found a picture yet of a GC one. In Tatlow Volume 1 there is a fitted GC van with a light coloured circle like the GW used then for Banana vans, but it is not labeled on the van or the caption as Banana (Pg 126). I wonder if any GN Banana vans were included in those lent to the Southern. There is a picture of a former GN Banana van in the same volume, pg. 55. It would be interesting to see how many of those types are in Graham's pictures.

Looks good Graham. I would love a southern designed Banana van to go with my GE/NE ones. Do those knowledgeable about the Southern think that the Diagram 1479 van wore the stone livery with red lettering, as depicted on the Parkside 7mm Diagram 1478 model or would the 1479 ones have been brown by the time they were built ? I have only found pictures in BR livery. Any guidance appreciated. Tom

I have just been reading an interesting 2 page article titled "Yes We Have No Banana Vans" by John Watling. It is in the Great Eastern Railway Society Journal number 61, from January 1990. It starts with some information on the traffic before the first World War, including a description of the MR vans being used before the GER built theirs. It then moves to the GE vans. There is a full size line drawing of the GE banana van, a picture of a van in BR livery and a picture of the similar General van in NE livery. There is also a discussion of some of the vans being lent to the Southern, and reference to the location of 2 pictures showing the vans labelled SR.

I think this is the page "Pre Grouping Fan" is referring to. https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/c/765/Hornby-2022-Range

I have Athearn Genesis, Rapido, Intermountain, Bowser, Walthers Proto and Trix North American models running on my English layout sometimes. The scenic side is mostly my hand built OO-SF track with as much of Wayne’s that is available so far, with Peco and Fasttracks jig made turnouts in the fiddle yard. No problem. I occasionally have to ease out the back to backs on some Hornby models.

I notice Hattons had some GE livery vans and Banana vans back in stock yesterday, 10 or more of each. The banana vans have already sold out again, but there are some GE vans still available.

Unlikely with these I would have thought. It’s not an assembly issue. It is in the tooling. But they are still very nice models.

Agree, I should thank them really as they are very nice models and each time they do this I learn a bit more about how the real wagons worked, eventually :-)

Oh yes you are quite right. The push rod locations are different as they should be. I had noticed that yesterday when I modified the brake lever attachment position on the non morton side. However I forgot that I suspect searching for a reason for the error. Both sides do have the pin for the brake lever above the lower half of the Morton clutch. Even more curious.

They look very good James, well done. Like Nile I would like to know which paints you used, especially the French Grey as it seems to match well. I would also like to add a little weight to mine too. Any pointers on how the body comes off ? Thanks, Tom

Thanks Compound, I wish I had read that about the action on the real caliper brakes being pull rods before my first swap on the Banana van :-) We should not blame it on poor or inconsistent assembly though, it is baked into the design. There is an integrated component on the general van that is the V hanger, one brake push rod, one brake shoe & hanger, and the stay. That includes the "boss" of the Morton clutch inline with the cross shaft and just above it includes a molded pin that the separate brake lever attaches too. That integrated component is NOT the the same on both sides. (That was incorrect, they are different on both sides as one push rod is above and one is below as pointed out below by Flying Pig in the post below, but the lever mounting pin is still above the shaft on both sides) There wont be any randomness in how they are assembled, they will all be like the few photos that have been posted so far, 2 Morton sides on the General van, 2 non Morton sides on he banana van. No need to search physical store inventory for one that happens to be right !

Now it is on the correct side. Thank you Compound. There is a picture showing the vacuum cylinder clearly and the non-clutch side in Tatlow 1 (NOT4A) pg. 205 of a fitted GE van. I also looked at the drawing on page 7 of Tatlow 4A and can see how the levers and vacuum cylinder interact and the central rods pull on the far yoke of a clasp brake set up, so I can now see how the mechanism works. Murphy's law dictated that there was indeed more factory glue on this side and the pin broke off the V hanger. However my fake clutch boss (wire-insulation) seems to sit close enough to the correct position anyway. As the far side was intact I was able to put that lever back in the correct spot easily.

Thank you. I was afraid of that. I knew the general van was correct but I wasn't certain how the rods behaved behind the wheels on the fitted one. Swapping sides should be easy enough provided there is not more factory glue on the other side. Thank you for the feedback.

The extra Morton clutch now removed from this side of the van. More detailed pictures on the banana van thread.

I increased the CVs for the red and yellow LEDs from 15 to 31 which is the max. No visible changed in brightness, though reducing below 15 does make them more dim. I used a Lokprogrammer. You have to be careful and set the index CVs 31 and 32 correctly before trying that. I put details of those on the earlier V2 thread and don't want to misremember them here.

A little crude, but will look ok out of the bright lights. Morton representation on one side of the banana van. I hope I did the correct side. (Oops, this was the WRONG side on the Banana van - corrected version 3 posts below) And clutch removed on one side of the GE general purpose van.

You are right they are separate. However, on the GE van I think they are molded as one part with the brake push-rod, brake shoe, and stay, and the rest of that "assembly" needs to stay on the GE van.

First foray to swap the brake lever from the side that should have a Morton clutch on the banana van with the side of the GE van that should not have the Morton clutch looked promising. The lever has a small hole in the back, and the V hanger has a small pin in line with the cross the shaft. So far so good. However, the brake lever from the GE van does not have both parts of the clutch molded with it. It has the top boss and amazingly its drive cog molded on it, (and so is slightly different than the one that comes with the banana van.) But the lower boss and its matching drive cog seem to be molded with the V hanger. Sorry that is slightly out of focus below. The upper of the 2 loose levers below the van is from the GE van, the lower is from the banana van. That upper lever is not badly cut from the sprue, it is actually a representation of the Morton drive cog. I may as well swap the levers over between the vans now that they are both off, and will reposition them. But no need to buy vans in pairs to make the swap easy. I may try to slice the lower cog off the GE V hanger to try to reuse it on the banana van, but if that does work I will represent it on that van with a bit of stripped wire insulation, like I believe Niles did with the LNER 6 planks. PS the vans behaved like the opposite of falling buttered toast. The first side I looked at to start work was always the correct side that didn't need work. I guess the opposite will be true when placed on the track for any vans I don't do the conversion on !