David Bigcheeseplant

Really interesting and useful information, Pete. If W240 was restored, I wonder how it ended up in the state shown here: http://www.southdevo.../Coach-W240.jpg I thought the same. As for interior colours looking at colour photos of Thrush the pea green seems a good description. If W240 had pea green seats and W236 had red I wonder one of those two were a one off or there was a mix of colours on the later batch. David

I can't quite put my finger on it and maybe its just me but it looks chunky and the lining heavy, the silver painted handrails look odd too.

The photos of Thrush in 1962 have no line on the front windows but there is still a vertical white line on the drivers door. Maybe the white line was visions of Adam Ant in the future!

I don't really get the lighting thing, the taillight would have only been lit at night, and having a brightly lit interior just jars, I see very few layouts that are lit and those which are just seem gimmicky fine for a Christmas tree but not on a layout. I would have thought railways in the 50s and 60s were quite dull places at night. I would rather have detail and weathering that looks great in daylight rather that lights.

I am frankly baffled why some people are apparently willing to turn a blind eye to two pretty blatant and avoidable shortcomings in the new autocoach, and yet agonise for days about precisely what design of seat fabric a coach had at any particular time, and I can't help thinking that undue deference is being shown towards the model simply because it comes in a blue box rather than a red one. I don't turn a blind eye I do some modelling to correct things if needed, I don't really care what colour box it comes in the model is dimensionally accurate the paint job is fantastic, and it forms a easy basis to make an fantastic model, I have already taken the seating out to measure the floor up to make replacement seating for Thrush Wren and the later bus seat diagrams. I don't really think it would be a major job to fill the slots with filler if you find them offensive. I am a railway modeller rather than a collector and I think this is the best way to have Hawksworth trailer. I spent quite a bit of money and time trying to build a Comet auto trailer to a high standard but the detail on the Bachmann version has made me leave the Comet one unfinished. The fine rivets on the roof exquisite how an earth you could do these on a aluminium roof of the Comet version? At around £60 I still think it is good value it is not perfect what model is, I hopefully think it will produce with some work something outstanding.

I have just found this photo of Thrush http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-GWR-LOCO-NO-5152-WITH-AUTO-COACHTHRUSH-AT-PRINCES-RISBOROUGH-IN-1957-/361428152413?hash=item5426cbf05d:g:ThkAAOSwNSxVdcewthe photo is dated 1957 and shows it in plain unlined livery I guess plain carmine. I wonder when Thrush was repainted from carmine and cream to plain carmine and from plain carmine to lined maroon. With a life of only 13 years there were a few changes.

"Regarding W236, can you be sure that the autocoach interior in the film is actually W236 just because the film shows this coach from the outside in the same sequence? It is quite possible that shots were taken at different times and then edited together, especially if only one camera was being used. As far as I can tell Wren was in the area at the time. Just a suggestion... Douglas" Although I can't not totally prove the interior is of W236 I am pretty certain it is as well being allocated to Banbury from May 1960 which fits in with the film. As I mentioned in a previous post the interior is not Wren due to the length of the bench seating adjacent to the entrence doors. David

I have noticed on page 374 of autotrailers book by John Lewis it gives details of trailer 240 on the Dart Valley Railway as it was in 1968 and notes seats mid green moquette! So we have W236 with red and W240 with green seats, as was noted in a previous post the seats are slightly different between W236 and W221 with the chrome surround to a differnt patten. I guess if you are modelling the first batch with bench seats like the Bachmann model, these trailers plus Thrush had curtains the later batch did not. David

The inside shots are of W236 the number apears several times in the film, It is not Wren as in bench seats by the entrance door were longer than the A40 diagram the bench seats only run for one window length, which they do in the photo I posted earlier. on Wren they were longer maybe two windows but one an a half at least. The preserved autocoach 233 is a real dogs dinner and nothing like how it was in BR service, different bogies it has a window plated up different buffers, and the current restoration has put windows in the non driving end which none of the BR built trailers had. The seats are from a modern road coach. I have been looking through other colour photo books and agree in some shots the seats do seem green on the A40 batch but not clear enough to know for sure. What we do know is that the seats in the first batch as modelled by Bachmann should be brown, W220 Thrush was green, W221 Wren maybe green. W236 is red I recived my maroon autocoach yesterday and I must admit it is a really nice model the finish and lining are fantastic. It needs a few extras the brackets and linkages under the driving end and the weathering of the roof and underframe and changing the inside to Thrush. The bogies seem really fine and there is even the drain on the steam heat pipe on the underframe. David

Here are some shots from landscapes of steam, what looks like one auto train from Princes Risborough to Aylesbury and also filmed at Haddenham is in fact two auto trains one with a lined Thrush and the other a unlined maroon train from which the inside shots are taken. The film is edited so a train arrives at a station and then filmed departing but is not the same one! I never noticed it before. At this time there were two auto trains at Aylesbury so I guess who ever filmed them took both, as they had both Hawksworth trailers and 64XX as motive power. I have stopped framed in a few places and can see the number of the unlined trailer as W236.so this one proves the fact that the later bus type trailers had red seats well W236 at least. Also seen in the screen shot is Thrush which the inside end is lined maroon and very dirty and not black. Another interesting thing in the film is 64XX is lined green and left hand tank is lined green late crest while the right hand tank is plain black with early crest! Judging by the DMU and other clues the film must date from no earlier than 1960 and no later than 1962, I would think more 1962. David

6429 was transfered to Banbury on 13/06/59 before that it was in Wales so my guess is that Wren is in maroon, also Wren was in carmine and cream before so I think it would be unlikely to have then gone in to plain carmine before maroon. David

Here is another picture of Wren unlined maroon again but having a maroon inner end rather than the black end in post 196.

In Great Western Coaches Appendix Vol 2 by J H Russell there are some full page photos of boths sides of both Thush and Wren in carmine and cream, both before and after names were applied. Interesting both have white horizontal lines on both the three end windows and drivers doors. Thush was built unnamed with the normal trailer seating and was then rebuilt more or less straight away with the new interior, repainted in lined Maroon and lost the white lines on the end windows while the white line on the drivers door went from horizontal to vertical all this in a life of only 13 years. David.

I think the seats are a green leather/plastic/vinyl with a brown fabric down the centre you can see this in black and white in the John Lewis book. I still think all the bus seat type trailers were in red, The seats in the preserved Chaffinch should have the bus type seating and no windows in the end bulkhead, I am pretty sure one of the preserved trailers on the South Devon Railway has the bus style seats that may be original. some had all the interiors ripped out and turned into observation cars when used by the Paignton Steam Railway in the 1970s

I just found this http://plymouthrailwaycircle.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/4/8/3148911/7260472_orig.jpgThrush seats seam to be light green with a red brown fabric down the middle.

My autocoach is winging it way in the post to me as I type this. looking at the interior in the photos in the previous posts, I am thinking of making a whole new drop in floor with Thrush and also bus style seating, in laser cut parts plus resin or 3D printed bits. the reduction in height of floor could also be done. Would anyone be interested in parts if I done this? David

Here is a couple of screen shots of Thrush It does seem the seats are green. I would be interested to see a screen shot showing blue seats, we know red seats where used as per my previous post. David

"There is also a picture of W220W Thrush at Dulverton in November 1962 on page 13 of the book British Railways Western Region in colour by Laurence Walters where the seat cushions and seat backs look a bluey- grey colour. The chrome hand rails on the seat backs are clearly visible.​" I think I am looking at the same photo in Great Western Coaches in Colour by Kevin Robertson and would say the seats in Thrush look a brown/grey. The seats in Thrush where high backed with headrests and are quite visible through the windows there was also an additional bulkhead in the big saloon. David

The first two photos in post 203 were taken on the last day of the autotrains on the Risborough - Aylesbury 17th June 1962 with 1440 as motive power, note the bow tie on the driver! the third photo was taken on 29th August 1961. Looking through colour photos I have found black painted inner ends in 1961 and lined maroon ends in 1964 so it I think some got painted black and some were left maroon and some just got dirty! It is far easier to paint a lined maroon end black than do it the other way round. David

No its not, but I will find out who they are, the middle one is the shed master. Attached is a photo of my Dad at Risborough he will be 82 next week and still rides his bike to the paper shop most day.

​ Three photos of Thush at Aylesbury taken by John Reid, I have noticed although there is no horizontal while line on the end windows there is a vertical white line on the drivers door window, normally if there was white lines applied this line was horizontal. David

Whatever coach model I tend to spray the roof with Pheonix roof dirt and the underframe and ends in a matt colour. and try and gloss up the sides a bit, it really makes a model look something like the real thing.

Landscapes of steam No. 3 Countryside Through the Chilterns it has plenty of interest if you know the area.

A crop of Wren at High Wycombe in what looks like unlined Maroon, all the photos I can find of Wren show it as unlined in Maroon while Thrush was lined. I am not too sure if the non driving end was painted black or just got that way due to lack of cleaning in either crimson or maroon livery. It is not me in the inside photo, I was not around then. The photo is a clip from a film Landscapes of steam of an autotrain on the Risborough Aylesbury branch, most of the outside shots are of Thrush but the inside ones are of another trailer so thats where the confusion came from, there are a few outside shots of the auto train which show an unlined hawksworth trailer which I guess is the same one of the inside shot. David

The picture I posted is not Thrush as that should have high backed seats but one of the standard later lots