Chris hndrsn

JW and Phil, Thank you, I have requested postage info from both. Now if I could just sort out the metre gauge rolling stock and tramway engines used by the ROD ! Plus the 60cm loco's from Bachmann though very nice, are eye watering in price Cheers, Chris

Does anyone know of an OO scale model of the LSWR brake van that was copied for the ROD? Apparently post war they were used on the NORD, Midlands, Metropolitan and Great Eastern Railways. Cheers, Chris

Ian, Having been in the Australian mob and also having dug far too many hole to fill them in again, there is a difference between putting the spoil behind a trench/weapon pit (the 'parados') and removing the spoil from around a drainage ditch. If the spoil isn't removed from the drainage ditch area it would hinder water removal, thereby the inevitable mud holes under the track and derailments will occur. Cheers, Chris

Indeed they are Simon, clearly made to a pattern by the Egyptian State Railways in their workshops. Cheers, Chris

Simon, Great image, you are right they are three plank wagons with a locally designed superstructure being operated by the Egyptian State Railway. Not sure why they are built that way, possibly for horses. Cheers, Chris

I was reading (browsing) the New South Wales Railway and Tramway Magazines from the 1920 today and found an image of a Baldwin Mallet 2-8-8-0 locomotive operated by the ROD. From memory 50 were purchased by the War Department for use by the ROD in Salonika and for the Russians. When I have the opportunity I will grab an image. Cheers, Chris

Rob1090, The layout looks superb. When did the thread title and unit name change from 17 LROC to 35 LROC? Cheers, Hendo

I found this image of the Manning Wardle Armoured Petrol Mechanical Tractor in Vol LXXIII (Jul-Dec 1933) copies of the Railway Magazine which I received today. About ten served with the ROD in France and Belgium and the same number in Palestine. Apparently they were intended for moving the rail guns around, but were a bit temperamental for that task. I would guess having the radiator exposed without an armour cover on the roof may have added to the potential for puncturing by shrapnel. Cheers, Chris

Thank you Andy, unfortunately we don't get that magazine here in Australia. Cheers, Chris

EddieB and The Stationmaster, I have the various editions of the Railway Magazine you kindly mentioned on order. Do you know whether the magazine dealt with the light railways on the Western Front, Egypt, Mesopotamia and Salonika at all? I would be keen to get hold of the relevant magazines if they did. If they also had articles about the French Pechot and German Feldbahn, I would be a pig in heaven! Chris

This is the image of the Royal Saloon from the 1921 Railway Magazine I mentioned previously. Cleary it is a converted D class bogie wagon with a half length enclosure, stove and corrugated iron roof. Being somewhat of a pedant for historical accuracy, note that the magazine describes the saloon as being on the "military light railways" not as being on the WDLR. So unfortunate that enthusiasts today incorrectly describe the military light railway networks operating in France as being the WDLR, when the W/|\D prefix painted or stamped onto equipment meant that it had been produced specifically to a War Department contract, and was owned by the British Army. Cheers, Chris

In the Volume XLVIII, Jan-Jun 1921 series of TRM there are two articles on the operations of the ROD in France written by MC Robson, pages 81-88 and pages 169-175. There is also an image on page 147 of "A Royal Saloon on the MIlitary Light Railways in France", showing a converted D class bogie wagon running behind a 20hp Simplex tractor. I will post the image later. Cheers, Chris

There was an article about 1921 on a Royal Coach on the light railways. I am awaiting a copy. Cheers, Chris

William Shelford over at the Great War Forum, kindly posted this information about the Royal Engineers ROD light railways in Egypt and Palestine: "Posted Today, 08:18 AM Both photographs show a 2'6" gauge light railway in Egypt. The first line here was built in early 1916 from Port Said to Mohamedieh (near Romani) in Egypt. Later in 1917 after the Turks had been pushed back into Palestine, the 2'6" (and 60cm) gauge light railway equipment was redeployed nearer the front lines. A 2'6" line being constructed from Deir-el-Balah on the coast towards Shellal, near Gamli, running along the south side of the Wadi Gaza valley. I am no expert on these campaigns, so possibly someone could enlighten us.? The first photograph is as you said one of Hawthorn Leslie 0-4-0PM (Petrol Mechanical) 2'6" gauge locomotives. Built in1915 and allocated works numbers 3107-29 they were numbered by the ROD 61-83. These had Gardner four-cylinder engines of 55hp at 600 rpm. The transmission was via a disc friction clutch and a three-speed gearbox, giving speeds of 4, 8 and 15 mph. Coupling rods connected the wheels which were worm driven from the gearbox. Weight was 8.75 tons, with 27" diameter wheels and a wheelbase of 5ft. The second photo is more interesting as it is the first one I have seen showing a front view of the 0-4-0PM locomotives also used on these lines in Egypt build by the Avonside Engine Co. of Bristol. Built in 1915 and allocated works numbers 1703-14, these were numbered by the ROD 31-42. These had Parsons four-cylinder engines of 60hp at 550rpm, and a four speed gearbox giving speeds of 2.5, 5, 10 and 15 mph. Weight was 9 tons 2 cwt., with 24" coupled wheels and a wheelbase of 4ft. Overall dimensions were length 12ft 1.5in, height 8ft 9in, width 5ft 6in. Manning Wardle did build ten standard gauge 0-4-0PM locomotives for the Ministry of Munitions. None are recorded as going overseas. Comment: I pointed out that three did operate on standard gauge in Palestine as quoted in the Special War Transportaiton Number of the Railway Gazette in 1920. Published sources on these light railways and their equipment is sparse, in compiling the above notes, I have consulted the following: The British Internal Combustion Locomotive 1894-1940 by Brian Webb, published by David and Charles in 1973 Narrow Gauge at War 2 by Keith Taylorson, published by Plateway Press in 1996 Middle East Railways by Hugh Hughes, published by the Continental Railway Circle in 1981 (although this was of very little help, other than confirming works and running numbers). The choice of 2'6" gauge for these lines is interesting. Following pre-war experiments, 2' 6" was chosen by the military for siege railways, despite the Germans and French choosing 60cm (1ft 11 5/8") gauge, as both counties (especially France) had built a lot of these lines to serve rural areas. So when light railways were found to be required on the Western Front, the War Office had to adopt 60cm gauge. It was however decided that railways in other theatres would stick to 2' 6". Hence the use of 60cm in France/Belgium, 2'6" gauge in Egypt (with some 60cm diverted from the Western Front), and metre gauge in East Africa, where the lines were built using the Indian Army Military Railway reserve (this was later replaced in 1920 by surplus 60cm equipment). Kenya has metre gauge railways to this day, despite a realisation from the 1920's onwards that 3'6" gauge as used in South Africa would be better. After the war in the UK, the Army did its best to avoid narrow gauge railways, but those it had were 60cm gauge, the Admiralty used 2'6" gauge in armament depots and dockyards (except for these at Gibraltar and Singapore which used metre gauge), while the RAF decided to use 2ft gauge in its armament depots. So much for standardisation!" Cheers, Chris

Eddie, Thank you. So one would suspect that the two images I have seen, and posted, are actually the two different 2'6" gauge loco's, Chris

Spot on, thank you, they even have the 45' brake vans based on the Picnic Saloons.

Sorry Phil, But no they aren't an exact match, they are two different locomotives. The first image is this type of loco, from http://www.railalbum.co.uk/mystery/mystery04.htm Where it is described as: "This First World War view was taken on the 2ft 6ins gauge Port Said (east to) Mahembiya military line built by the British in 1916 as part of the Suez Canal defences. There were 23 of these 0-4-0P 55hp locos built by Hawthorn Leslie B/No. 3107-29 in 1915 as part of the RE "siege packs" and were ROD Nos. 61-83. All of these worked on various 2ft 6ins gauge lines in the Middle East in Egypt / Sinai / Palestine. The Port Said line was exclusively worked by petrol locos, including some by Avonside." If that is correct, I would like to find the posters (AH) reference source. The second image I posted from the Australian War Memorial is a noticeably different type of locomotive, which I believe (based on nearby rolling stock, may be on what was close to Metre gauge track. Cheers, Chris

Which one? I know officially, from the 1920 Railway Gazette quoting an official report from 1917, that there were three Manning Wardle locomotives running around. Chris Eddie, K Davis and D Bishop - Railways and War before 1918

Andy, Thank you. I have had a look at the 1920 Railway Gazette reprint and General Haig's Advanced GHQ train shown above was made by the LNWR from twelve 42' bogie Picnic Saloons, with another two 45" coaches as a generator van and a stores.brake van. Does anyone know of any 42' LNWR Picnic Saloon kits? On a parallel subject can anyone tell me, with a reference, which is which from the following two images. I ask as K.Davis's book has one of them as a Manning Wardle and a website refers to the same loco as a Hawthorn Leslie and yet another as a Avonside and Hawthorn Leslie, I am slightly confused. Cheers and thank you in anticipation! Chris

Is anyone able to tell me the details of coaches that made up the commanders trains. I would like to make up a representative train for my intended Great War themed layout: AWM image ref H12252. "France. 16 November 1918. French Army Marshal F. Foch and British Army Field Marshal Sir Douglas Haig entering the advanced General Headquarters train. (Donor Imperial War Museum Q7178)". Cheers, Chris

Andy, Can you tell me the details/ISBN of the L&Y book, being from Australia it is not immediately obvious to me. Also I would have thought that rather than the L&YR that the point of embarkation for the rolling stock would have been in the London, Brigton and South Coast Railways network. Also do you know of any websites I can view the MAJ and ABS ranges, I could not find websites on Google. Cheers, Chris

I have just purchased a book "The Belgian Vicinal: Tram and Light Rail Fleet 1885 - 1991" by Dirk Eveleens Maarse, published by the Light Rail Transit Association. It has details and images of the metre gauge tram engines and rolling stock produced (48 type 19 loco, plus a van and open wagon produced in the UK), and the Belgian Trams (Principally type 18 loco's) used during the war by the Railway Operating Division, primarily around Ypres. I will post some images over the coming days. It also has details of the twenty type 20 Alco of the US loco's purchased "of the shelf" for the Belgian Army. Cheers, Chris

You better jump in reasonably quick on the Model Power product, they have just gone belly-up. As for the D53 and ROD in HO, I emailed Eureka Models and got a very prompt reply: :I will be producing the D53 when we do a re-run of the D 50. I have looked at the ROD and may produce one at a later date. The problem with British modellers is that they model in OO and any model produced in HO is out of place." Looking at their website, the D50 is due for re-run shortly, so I would imagine the D53 will be available soon. Cheers, Chris

The D53 class is/was produced by DJH for Footplate models (AUS) which is now part of AR Kits. It is available from AR Kits for AUD $450 (about GBP 250.60) from http://www.arkits.com/catalogue/16. There is however a RTR injection moulded one "coming soon" from Eureka Models according to their website. Chris

Having a quick look around a New South Wales 53 Class locomotive is planned by http://eurekamodels.com.au/ in HO. Ten of these were taken over by the ROD and post war purchased by the SNCB as the SNCB 76 class. If someone spoke to eureka models and mentioned the ROD/Belgian history and the possibilities for marketing in Belgium they may bump it up there program (which can be slow). Cheers, Chris