Chris hndrsn

Simon,

Great image, you are right they are three plank wagons with a locally designed superstructure being operated by the Egyptian State Railway. Not sure why they are built that way, possibly for horses.

Cheers,

Chris

I was reading (browsing) the New South Wales Railway and Tramway Magazines from the 1920 today and found an image of a Baldwin Mallet 2-8-8-0 locomotive operated by the ROD. From memory 50 were purchased by the War Department for use by the ROD in Salonika and for the Russians. When I have the opportunity I will grab an image.

Cheers,

Chris

Rob1090,

The layout looks superb. When did the thread title and unit name change from 17 LROC to 35 LROC?

Cheers,

Hendo

I found this image of the Manning Wardle Armoured Petrol Mechanical Tractor in Vol LXXIII (Jul-Dec 1933) copies of the Railway Magazine which I received today.

About ten served with the ROD in France and Belgium and the same number in Palestine. Apparently they were intended for moving the rail guns around, but were a bit temperamental for that task. I would guess having the radiator exposed without an armour cover on the roof may have added to the potential for puncturing by shrapnel.

Cheers,

Chris

Thank you Andy, unfortunately we don't get that magazine here in Australia.

Cheers,

Chris

EddieB and The Stationmaster,

I have the various editions of the Railway Magazine you kindly mentioned on order. Do you know whether the magazine dealt with the light railways on the Western Front, Egypt, Mesopotamia and Salonika at all? I would be keen to get hold of the relevant magazines if they did. If they also had articles about the French Pechot and German Feldbahn, I would be a pig in heaven!

Chris

This is the image of the Royal Saloon from the 1921 Railway Magazine I mentioned previously. Cleary it is a converted D class bogie wagon with a half length enclosure, stove and corrugated iron roof.

Being somewhat of a pedant for historical accuracy, note that the magazine describes the saloon as being on the "military light railways" not as being on the WDLR. So unfortunate that enthusiasts today incorrectly describe the military light railway networks operating in France as being the WDLR, when the W/|\D prefix painted or stamped onto equipment meant that it had been produced specifically to a War Department contract, and was owned by the British Army.

Cheers,

Chris

In the Volume XLVIII, Jan-Jun 1921 series of TRM there are two articles on the operations of the ROD in France written by MC Robson, pages 81-88 and pages 169-175. There is also an image on page 147 of "A Royal Saloon on the MIlitary Light Railways in France", showing a converted D class bogie wagon running behind a 20hp Simplex tractor. I will post the image later.

Cheers,

Chris

......................

 

I think there were also some articles in The Railway Magazine in the 1920s 

There was an article about 1921 on a Royal Coach on the light railways. I am awaiting a copy.

Cheers,

Chris

William Shelford over at the Great War Forum, kindly posted this information about the Royal Engineers ROD light railways in Egypt and Palestine:

"Posted Today, 08:18 AM

Cheers,

Chris

Eddie,

Thank you. So one would suspect that the two images I have seen, and posted, are actually the two different 2'6" gauge loco's,

Chris

D77 Picnic Saloon?  Here.

Spot on, thank you, they even have the 45' brake vans based on the Picnic Saloons.

The locomotives were all built to a similar design but each manufacturers product had identifiable differences, the curvature of the top corners of the side panels and vents and access panels for instance and the length of the bonnets. The Avonside locomotives are an exact match to the photographs.

Sorry Phil,

But no they aren't an exact match, they are two different locomotives. The first image is this type of loco, from http://www.railalbum.co.uk/mystery/mystery04.htm

Where it is described as:

"This First World War view was taken on the 2ft 6ins gauge Port Said (east to) Mahembiya military line built by the British in 1916 as part of the Suez Canal defences. There were 23 of these 0-4-0P 55hp locos built by Hawthorn Leslie B/No. 3107-29 in 1915 as part of the RE "siege packs" and were ROD Nos. 61-83. All of these worked on various 2ft 6ins gauge lines in the Middle East in Egypt / Sinai / Palestine. The Port Said line was exclusively worked by petrol locos, including some by Avonside." 

If that is correct, I would like to find the posters (AH) reference source.

The second image I posted from the Australian War Memorial is a noticeably different type of locomotive, which I believe (based on nearby rolling stock, may be on what was close to Metre gauge track.

Cheers,

Chris

They were built by Avonside (wks no. 1703-14) built in 1915.

Which one?

I know officially, from the 1920 Railway Gazette quoting an official report from 1917, that there were three Manning Wardle locomotives running around.

Chris

Sorry, but which book (K Davis or WJK Davies?) and website do these pictures come from, and where were the pictures taken?

 

Certainly Avonside supplied a batch of 2'6" gauge 60hp petrol locomotives to the War Office (builders numbers as Phil gives).

Eddie,

K Davis and D Bishop - Railways and War before 1918

Andy,

Thank you. I have had a look at the 1920 Railway Gazette reprint and General Haig's Advanced GHQ train shown above was made by the LNWR from twelve 42' bogie Picnic Saloons, with another two 45" coaches as a generator van and a stores.brake van.

Does anyone know of any 42' LNWR Picnic Saloon kits?

On a parallel subject can anyone tell me, with a reference, which is which from the following two images. I ask as K.Davis's book has one of them as a Manning Wardle and a website refers to the same  loco as a Hawthorn Leslie and yet another as a Avonside and Hawthorn Leslie, I am slightly confused.

Cheers and thank you in anticipation!

Chris

Is anyone able to tell me the details of coaches that made up the commanders trains. I would like to make up a representative train for my intended Great War themed layout: AWM image ref  H12252. "France. 16 November 1918. French Army Marshal F. Foch and British Army Field Marshal Sir Douglas Haig entering the advanced General Headquarters train. (Donor Imperial War Museum Q7178)".

Cheers,

Chris

If you have the L&Y wagons book, there are quite a few photos of wagons (open and box) that were photoed at Horwich either just before, or just after going to war. Some of these wagons were done as kits by MAJ and then by ABS (Fourmost?). Sadly I've learnt that Adrain has plenty of bodies, but the underframe moulds have been lost...

 

Andy G

Andy,

Can you tell me the details/ISBN of the L&Y book, being from Australia it is not immediately obvious to me. Also I would have thought that rather than the L&YR that the point of embarkation for the rolling stock would have been in the London, Brigton and South Coast Railways network.

Also do you know of any websites I can view the MAJ and ABS ranges, I could not find websites on Google.

Cheers,

Chris

I have just purchased a book "The Belgian Vicinal: Tram and Light Rail Fleet 1885 - 1991" by Dirk Eveleens Maarse, published by the Light Rail Transit Association. It has details and images of the metre gauge tram engines and rolling stock produced (48 type 19 loco, plus a van and open wagon produced in the UK), and the Belgian Trams (Principally type 18 loco's) used during the war by the Railway Operating Division, primarily around Ypres. I will post some images over the coming days. It also has details of the twenty type 20 Alco of the US loco's purchased "of the shelf" for the Belgian Army.

Cheers,

Chris

.........  One thing I would really like is a railway gun.  There is a very (very) expensive kit in (I think) 1/72 available but the H0 Model Power one can, I suspect, be used comfortably with 4mm figures.

You better jump in reasonably quick on the Model Power product, they have just gone belly-up.

As for the D53 and ROD in HO, I emailed Eureka Models and got a very prompt reply: :I will be producing the D53 when we do a re-run of the D 50.   I have looked at the ROD and may produce one at a later date. The problem with British modellers is that they model in OO and any model produced in HO is out of place."

Looking at their website, the D50 is due for re-run shortly, so I would imagine the D53 will be available soon.

Cheers,

Chris

The D53 class is/was produced by DJH for Footplate models (AUS) which is now part of AR Kits. It is available from AR Kits for AUD $450 (about GBP 250.60) from http://www.arkits.com/catalogue/16. There is however a RTR injection moulded one "coming soon" from Eureka Models according to their website.

Chris

Having a quick look around a New South Wales 53 Class locomotive is planned by http://eurekamodels.com.au/ in HO. Ten of these were taken over by the ROD and post war purchased by the SNCB as the SNCB 76 class. If someone spoke to eureka models and mentioned the ROD/Belgian history and the possibilities for marketing in Belgium they may bump it up there program (which can be slow). 

Cheers,

Chris

1ngram,

I believe there is a HO ROD locomotive planned for/being produced for the Australian market. A number of them were used until 1973 on colliery lines.

Chris

John,

Thanks for the encouragement. 

I also note Hornby are doing the J15 this year. 

Cheers,

Chris

Worth having a look at AMF87 to see if there's anything worth pursuing? His prices can be a bit eyewatering but I'm told the kits are pretty good. The very existence of the kits suggests that drawings and/or photographs exist.

 

Has anyone tried the SNCF Society? I obtained some decent drawings from a magazine article when I was building a French ferry van a couple of years ago.

 

 

 

Jonathan,

Thank you very much for pointing me to AMF87, the Euro price is eye watering for me! But a few intriguing wagons popped up. I am taking liberty to post the images of the wagons from the AMF87 website and translated extracts from the website as well.

First is a WD well wagon (AMF kits K220 and K221) which was produced in a short and long version: the translation from AMF87 states: "These lowered cars were built for the British War Department during the First World War, arrived in France in 1918, several specimens were embedded in Park Co. North with 2 styles here reproduced 13.2 m and 17.7 m (which make a very long car for the time), some of these cars were modified wagon obviously central. All had a very long career and experienced for most registration UIC." Comment: I suspect these wagons would have been introduced for carriage of the Mk IV and Mk IV tadpole tanks, the tadpole being noticeably longer than the MkIV.

The next is a 20 tonne metal van (AMF kit K240), the site states: "These cars were built in Britain at the end of the First World War on a model derived from boxcars to 20t skins friezes wood Co. North and attributed to it in compensation for losses suffered during the conflict. The body is full metal, a characteristic they share a little later with the North covered unified "rebuilt" with domed roof." 

Third is a WD Guard Van (Kit K241) : "These cars were built in Britain at the end of the First World War for the operations of the British Army in France. After the war they were sold to the Compagnie du Nord. They share many common elements with the boxcars built simultaneously for the same reasons. Originally vans were equipped with a corrugated tin roof and a large periscope, some were also equipped with a hand brake screw gangway to make them linkable to increase the weight of the trains brake while n 'using the services of a single agent. Quickly, roofs were redone in a conventional manner (wooden slats covered with tarred canvas), lost their gangways for those who had received him and provided a smaller periscope."

Finally there is another short wheel based van mentioned with commentary mentioning WD relating to the Brake Van, but the translation is not quite clear, overall very interesting, a pity they are not in OO. Given the cost for these HO kits and the likelihood that they will be noticeably smaller with OO stock something I am unfortunately not willing to risk buying.

With regard to the SNCF Society, no I haven't, though given my quite narrow and specific interest I am not sure joining would be worthwhile.

Cheers,

Chris

 

As for models of the wagons themselves not only hasn't anyone done a 4mm version of the French van but I've never come across even a H0 version - and as a H0 modeller I've looked for one.  The same goes for French coaches  - the only ones I have come across are old Jouef ones and they are for he wrong French railway of the time.