-missy-

That's substantial progress from what I saw on Saturday. Keep on keeping on...

 

P.S. You were right about how close a tender shouldn't be. Fat people wouldn't be able to cab it at present. I had to shorten the coupling to stop the cardan shaft coming out but that is not an excuse and it will be corrected (as will the footplate wobble). 

I did do a little bit more once I got home, after all no-one ever gets much modelling done on a demo table at a show! Its been very encouraging to see it come together and I am now thinking of another 'mini test etch' just to get the tweaks done so I can build it again (properly this time)

I did think the tender was a little close, even for 2mm standards. I would love to know how you go about doing the drive shafts too, its something I have always struggled with.

Oh, do we all get to play too? - cool!

 

Wondering if it (and its friends) had a less ornate livery before its first withdrawal though.

 

Bulldogs are quite appealing too...

 

Regards, Andy

I dont know, like with all the other bits I play with, it depends on demand. If enough people ask for one then I will look into making it available to others. After all I have done it because I need one (or should that be 'would like'?)

Dont make the same mistake I did too, there IS a difference between the City and Bulldog classes! I only know that now because I have a half drawn up Bulldog engine after I started drawing one thinking it was CoT!!

M

Hello folks!

Glad I could be of help Missy! If anyone is interested in Missy's lining efforts, here is the part completed tender underframe she did - I timed this at around 6 minutes! Sorry this one was already pre-weathered but it was all I had to hand (don't ask what is going to happen to the B1 it was originally paired with!).

Truro looks so much more complete with the cab now! Shame you're looking at the MKIII version already, where are the problem areas?

Looking at that it looks alright, I dont remeber it being that neat on the Sunday! Thanks again for your help Steve.

I need to change the way the running plate sits on the chassis, I had a few problems folding up the splashers plus the alignment holes dont quite align! There are a few other tweaks I think are needed to make the assembly a little easier but I am pleased with how its going.

Well you certainly inspired me at the weekend Julia. The etches you did for me are beautiful (more on my Bath thread later) and I'm sat here enjoying a large whiskey and a couple of triangles of dark Toblerone - also courtesy of your good self.

 

Jerry

Im looking forward to seeing how you get on with those Jerry. Glad to be of service and Im happy to be a part of Bath (even if its a small part)

Missy, I never cease to admire your persistence and how you strive for perfection. You are building a Mk II of the City which looks amazing to most of us, and yet you have already planned a Mk III. That's tenacity!

Its just wanting to get it right plus trying to figure out the best way of doing it so others dont struggle too much.

M

Thanks Guys

Bet you can't wait to get on with the lining!

Thanks to Atso Steve the whole lining thing doesnt seem as terrifying as it was. I was going to use transfers but now thats changed.

Anyway, thats a while off yet...

Hi Steve.

Likewise and thanks for bringing your engines along for me to take a look at, they are amazing and you should be very proud of them. Thanks also for taking the time out on Sunday to show me how you do that beautiful lining, I am itching to give that a go!

That lining on the tender of 2447 is superb! I have something similar to do on City of Truro so its hart warming to know it is possible!

Sorry to keep banging on about Chris Pendleton, but he doesn't recommend drilling the axle holes. Instead he uses a tiny boring bar after mounting the wheels by the rim in a collett. Not sure if this would be possible at half the size though. He also has some words about how to ensure that the collett is concentric with the lathe spindle - all about making it on the same lathe and marking it so that when you use it you fit it in exactly the same orientation as when it was made.

 

Regards, Andy

That is useful to know Andy, thank you. I have looked on and off for a small boring bar capable of boring sub-1mm diameter holes but havent found anything that I was happy with, not having access to a grinder too makes it hard to grind something suitable to shape too. I thought about turning a wheel rim on the lathe, I even made a tool to turn the tread but its kind of getting away from the idea of using standard 2mmSA wheel rims which I want to do.

Rather than drilling or boring the axle hole in a blank centre, had you thought about having the wheels printed slightly oversize, mounting them on a mandrel and skimming down to size before fitting the tyres? Apologies if you've already tried this.

 

  Alex.

Its a possibility Alex, thanks. I would go for drilling the axle hole though because I will do it after the wheel rim is pressed on, this means the wheel should be true to the rim and not just the wheel center.

If you're interested, I've still got my laser cut wheels somewhere. Not much good for 2mm scale (1.5mm thick material) but it would give you an indication of how they would look.

I would be very interested, thanks. It would be interesting to see what they look like, especially the wheel spokes.

M

Thanks for the idea.

I have thought about laser cutting them in the past but I decided on 3D printng mainly because of the profile of the spokes. It maybe worth revisiting laser cutting as an alternative method though.

Yes, the software has snaps, in fact I think its harder to draw things avoiding the snaps instead of using them.

I dont understand it either, the fact I got 2 good wheels shows that it is possible, as you say it might be the tolerance of the machines they are using maybe?

No, the wheels that broke are the ones that were not concentric, they broke mainly because of my persistence trying to fix them, trying out different ideas.

I have sent off for some more so I will take a closer look at them when they arrive although the others seemed fine too, at least this time I have a fall back option with the blank axle holes just in case the same happens again. Persistence hopefully does pay off!

Thank you for all your help and advice

Never heard of it!

Is it any good?

I was trained to use Inventor so it was the sensible thing to use at home....

Autodesk Inventor 2011. what do you use then?

Hello Bill

This is the whole problem I am having! I cannot get the wheels to run concentric, as I mentioned in the entry I got 2 good wheels out of 6, the remainder were not concentric once the rims where fitted and pushed onto the axles.

Im not even going to answer the question about the CAD drawing bit!!

M

Much better to start with a wheel with a undersized bore and then open it out with a hand reamer on the lathe.

Yes, but if that hole is not concentric then the reamer will not make it concentric. Much better to start with no hole.

To answer the question in the title I have no idea but I know the feeling and you seem to be there regularly. I can only sympathise.

 

 

I presume you are using a centre drill?

Yes, I have a collection of them, I think the secret is to find one suitable small enough to be able to use all of the drill. The problem I have is trying to clamp on the taper bit of the wheel tread in the collet. Its not as easy as it seems to clamp something that is slightly tapered. I must try that method which was explained in the 2mmSA magazine a few issues ago.

Although I've no experience of doing it I would expect to be drilling the hole after fitting the tyre for a good result, as others have said.

I think that is probably the best method right now, I will definitely be experimenting when they arrive.

Thank you.

Last night I ordered some more wheel centers. I have now ordered some without a central hole for the axle along with some of the original design. Hopefully my lathe is upto the job and will be able to drill the holes concentrically (I havent had much luck with this previously, even with collet chucks). I will try out the wheels with the axle hole first though as thats the easiest solution!

Thank you everyone for the replies too.

That is true Nick. Its not that I have a terrible temper or anything, far from it really!

I guess I just beat myself up (so to speak) too much when things don't go as well as I want them to. Its not anyone elses fault but my own.

Im not some hormonal crazed lunatic, honest!

OK, apologies but its still a little too thick for 2mm spoked wheels. I have bigger plans for using that!

Me again again!

We should not lose sight of the fact that all 2mm Association driving wheels are conductive to avoid having to use pickups, leading to better running.

I am not convinced about this, I have heard some people say that and I have also heard plenty of others saying it doesnt make any difference, after all both Farish and Dapol have adopted insulated wheels in their design so it cannot be that bad. Please note though that these particular wheels are NOT intended as a replacement in any way to the current range of 2mmSA wheels, I am just testing it to see if it is another viable alternative. As Andy has mentioned I am part of a team looking into various manufacturing techniques to eventually replace the 2mmSA wheels with something a little more 'assembly friendly'.

One way to go in 2mm would be to have them made in brass by i.materialise. http://i.materialise.com/materials/brass It is more expensive and they don't like doing builds with multiple pieces, but it would give you something that has know qualities.

Unfortunately not but a nice idea. As well as the details Andy has posted above, another problem lies in the fact the minimum wall thickness is 1mm. Unfortunately I think the only thing that is 1mm is the width of the wheel, the rest being well under. I am sure that in time the technology will get better and printing such things in Brass will be possible but sadly not now.

I agree with you about the stresses in the wheel, its not ideal but where there are any press fits you will get them. Its all about getting the forces down enough so the material will cope with them.

I do think though that if I had a choice between making something a press fit and making it a clearance fit I would choose the former. The reason is that to me it is much easier to locate something that is a press fit, if something is a loose fit you then have to rely upon some kind of jig to locate the two parts whilst they are stuck together to maintian the wheel back-to-back, run out (wobble), and concentricity, that plus the fact in this situation you would have to allow for accurate wheel quatering too as it will become very difficult, if not impossible to do this after they are stuck together. After all its how the current range of 2mmSA wheels work, i.e. relying on friction to position them accuarately.

I was hoping that 3D printing would be accurate enough to produce a wheel center that didnt require any post manufacturing machining and I think its nearly there but not quite. After all I have managed to get 2 wheels together succesfully.

I would love to be proved wrong but right now I just cannot see how adding a clearance hole would improve things.

EDIT: Don / Bill I would be more than willing to print a set with clearance holes if you would like to show me how they could be easily assembled...

Me again.

Im glad you grasped the last bit of the previous message Don. I was worried that the cart wheel analogy would be wrong.

The wheel rim is a 'snug' fit onto the wheel (a 2mm SA standard wheel rim btw) and doesnt have to be 'forced' in (I dont like the word 'forced') and the same goes for the shaft too although the wheel / shaft fit is a difficult one to get right. If you fit the wheel center to the rim before the shaft the forces involved in fitting the shaft are transmitted through the wheel center to the rim (which is more than capable of dealing with the forces) and should then make a stronger wheel. Its when I fit a shaft onto a wheel center without a rim that causes the problems because the stress/force cannot be transmitted through to the rim.

Well that was my thinking behind it anyway, please, someone tell me I am wrong...!!

EDIT: Remember though that its not the fit that I am having problems with, its the concentricity of the wheel once its on the rim and shaft.

I'd be interested to know how aerodynamic the Peckett is and what top speed it achieved during flight. Could be a new world record

David V

 Hehe, there is a bit of weight to the chassis for something that small so it left a little dent. A perminent record of me loosing my temper!

M

Thanks for the comments folks .

Rather ironically the broken wheels occurred while the wheel center wasn't fitted to the rim, I have never had a broken wheel while fitted to a rim. The rim acts as a good 'clamp' containing the stresses within the wheel, a bit like fitting a steel rim to a old fashioned wooden cart wheel I guess.

M

Hello Paul.

No, I didnt do any machining, just cleaned them up with a stiff brush and some IPA.

Sorry yes, Andy was right, the Welshpool and Llanfair railway.

I am tempted by a small NG / SG layout but I really need to be 100% convinced myself that it wont end up like Highclere.

Thank you for the help and advice though...

Thanks for the replies folks. Its definitely where forums like this have its advantages.

I would firstly like to say that I am not giving up or thinking of giving up modelling. True it can be frustrating at times but I enjoy it too much to give in, that and I have invested too much time and money too! I am full of ideas I would like to try out but just cannot seem to get the time to do any of them!

Its fantastic to know that some of my stuff has been inspirational to others, that to an extent is part of what keeps me going and its good to know that I am paving my own way in the 2mm world.That too has its disadvantages though when others use some of my ideas for their own personal gain without any acknowledgement (but that's another discussion).

There has been some great advice posted above so thanks again. To be honest I still don't know where I am heading but one thing I do know is that I have the support of others, its something that the 2mmSA is not short of. I think this year I am going to just go with the flow and see what happens. I really do apologise to the exhibition managers though who keep on asking me to take Highclere to shows though, I can just ask to be patient.

Missy

PS Does anyone know where I can find some scale drawings of the W&L steam engines?

Thank you David.

Im glad that some of my work has been inspirational. Over 2012 and previously that has kept me going and producing stuff although it has focused me towards developing new ideas and techniques. I guess I do try to stay of the forefront of modelling and that is not as easy as it seems these days. I guess I need to know where this is all heading really, its not that I am giving up, its quite the opposite, asking here seemed the best way of getting some advice..

I DO want to finish Highclere but its not where my enjoyment is right now, as you say its a hobby after all and I shouldnt get frustrated by it but sadly I do.

Thanks for the reply though David, I wish you a happy 2013 too.

Hello again Jon.

I think a little bit of patience might go a long way here. After all what you are asking doesn't have an easy or simple answer. There are some very talented people involved in the model railway hobby and as far as I am aware no-one has come up with something like you have suggested.

This is not to say it cannot be done though. What I would suggest you try is to experiment with some of your ideas in a much larger scale/size, then you do not have the problem of the small size to worry about, then you can concentrate on getting the method right. Once you have mastered that, then start looking into making it smaller.

Have you got anyone from school or friends/ family that can help? As Mikkel said above, posting messages like you have will have the opposite effect to what you want. Try out a few experiments and post your results here, people can comment on things like that a little easier.

Missy

WOW, that sounds an interesting little project you have there.

The only advice I can really offer is take a look at the E-Motion figures from Viessmann..

http://blog.eurorailhobbies.com/2012/09/product-feature-viessmann-e-motion.html

they are the closest thing I have ever seen to moving people in 4mm scale, hopefully that will give you some idea of what has been achieved so far.

I wish you the best of luck though...

Missy