Revolution Mike

48 minutes ago, KDG said:

Can we order the oo gauge versions yet?

 

Not yet - we’ve got a few improvements on the first CAD that we’ve asked the factory to make. 
 

Cheers Mike

1 hour ago, Long Line said:

I've tried logging into the 'my account ' section on revolutions website but that just takes me to e Bay?

My point is have I got a model coming or not... I ordered and to my best memory..  as nearly four years ago now!! Paid for a loco..  but now I'm concerned nothings gonna appear and I'll miss the limited run via rails..

Pls can someone from revolution  or sonic confirm my locos status ?

Cheers mark henshaw

 

Mark

That sounds like a problem with your machine if you’re being transferred to EBay (I’d be checking it for viruses/malware). You will need to be able to access your account if you have a balance invoice to pay. 
 

If you need any help please drop us an email. 
 

Cheers Mike

1 hour ago, Pmorgancym said:

Yeah in the same boat as you really, the switch in order handling does nag at you making you think, was my order transferred across.

As it says clearly on our website no orders were transferred anywhere. All orders placed with us will be fulfilled by us. 
 

Cheers Mike

That looks like it might have pickup issues. If it doesn’t improve then please get in touch to swap it as it certainly isn’t representative of the random one I tried yesterday. 
 

cheers Mike

1 hour ago, HRH_Dan_Hull said:

Any news on which order the dispatches are taking place?

A friend with order number 47124 has told me he's received confirmation of dispatch, I'm order number 17421 and have yet to hear anything, should this be taken as I've been forgotten?

We only sent out the first orders yesterday evening so no one has been forgotten.

The order was in our newsletter a few days ago and is the same as always ie order of when the order was placed plus you will be notified when your order is "Complete" ie despatched.

Your friend's order number is a balance payment not his original order - if he placed his deposit very early and has paid his balance then he might have snuck in to the first batch but more likely his deposit was automatically marked as Complete when he paid his balance but his order isn't despatched until both parts are marked as Complete.

Cheers Mike

The N gauge Ecofrets are just being checked over and will be in stock very shortly so we will start to send out orders next week. 
 

If you paid a deposit then you should receive a balance invoice by email over the next few days. 
 

Cheers Mike

The 56xx models are en route and we expect them soon. 
 

If you ordered through us we are starting to send out balance invoices (you can check progress on the Projects page of our website). 
 

Cheers Mike

On 17/07/2021 at 15:04, MGR Hooper! said:

 

Nope... Two is better than one. The real locos were manufactured by different factories. So having two different models will more realistic 

Cavalex are tooling the variations for the different builders (and I'd argue that they already look better than Hornby's offering) so I'm not sure that having models from different manufacturers is going to reflect the different builders!

1 hour ago, Pegleg90 said:

Will the OO versions be in pairs also or just N garage? 

We haven’t decided yet but it is definitely easier for us to duplicate the pairs we’re doing in N (in terms of admin, R&D and graphics!). 
 

We will make a decision over the next few weeks as the OO CAD is completed. 
 

Cheers Mike

11 minutes ago, Crepello said:

I see the models on offer are in pairs; will single wagons be an option too?

No, we had to decide whether less choice as single wagons or more choice but as pairs was preferable so we took the pairs route. 
 

There’s an incredible number of variants of these wagons which is great but the risk is always making sure that minimum order quantities are met. If we’d offered them as singles then we would have had to reduce the number of variants. 
 

Also in terms of how they were and are used they’ve been a mixture of block trains and handfuls mixed in with other freight/engineers stock. 

On 10/07/2021 at 18:33, spenc said:

Any idea when they will be ready I have 2 set's on order what I have seen so far they look superb.

Hi Spenc

You can see any estimates we have by clicking on Projects on our website.

Cheers Mike

Cracking lyrical reference! Good effort chaps!

We’re just waiting for the factory to confirm when they expect to complete production of the OO IWAs - shouldn’t be long now then to be followed about 6-8 weeks later by the N gauge version. 

DRS liveried 68s are used if the TPE 68s are undergoing maintenance eg final photo here: https://docbrown.info/docspics/ArchiveSteam/lococlass68.htm

Cheers Mike

5 hours ago, guzzler17 said:

And there's me with a pile of unmade N Gauge Society kits.

 

Will have to see how much Revolution will be asking for ready to run before deciding how to proceed.

We are expecting the N gauge version to go on sale late next week with the price around £35 per wagon with a discount for EarlyBird orders. 
 

The 4mm version will follow a week or two later.  
 

Cheers Mike

16 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Not so sure on the track access. Class 91s were designed with very low unsprung weight to minimise the impact on track. In that respect the traction motors are attached to the body so the weight of them is several stages suspended. It would depend on Railtrack's criteria and how the 93 is designed.

Hi Bernard

Hope you're well! I included the electricity costs within NR's track access charges as I would expect the 93 to be considerably cheaper to operate (successive generations of electric locos have been cheaper than the previous generation) and the tri-mode 93 should benefit.

Cheers Mike

5 minutes ago, cornish trains jez said:

What a waste of money. Class 91’s would be far more cost effective. And still using MK4 stock.

 

Depends what state the 91s are in and what costs (leasing and track access) are for a 91 v 93 - I suspect the 93 will be far cheaper to operate.

18 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

As such being able to 'share designs' between models (i.e. the innards of a diesel or the tender of a steam loco does) not massively cut the cost of developing another model.

 

Thus the implication from some that Bachmann producing a 56 to follow on from the 69 will be 'cheap and easy' is not borne out be the realities of where the bulk of the design costs will likely fall and in reality the amount of design work needed to produce a 56 is not going to be significantly less than a 69.

Sorry but you keep repeating this despite being told it is manifestly incorrect. I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to prove but it isn’t right!

If you know from the outset of a project that you might want to use the identical chassis for a 69 and 56 then you design and more importantly tool it for both from the outset.
 

The design is nowhere near the bulk of the cost hence why if you can share tooling (even part of the tooling in this case) it is so beneficial. As you say you will still have to tool separate bodies but that doesn’t make the cost saving from a shared chassis anywhere near trivial. 
 

I have a reasonable/good idea of the costs involved in the various stages and repeating incorrect ideas gives a false impression to others. 
 

20 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

From that comment I take it he is more than your average RMwebber then?

Not at all but I do own half of a model train manufacturer!

11 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Both the 37 and 69s  are co-co locos and I would imagine the core fundamentals like chassis block, gear towers, drivetrain can be used for both with minor tweaking of lengths and dimensions as necessary. When it comes to the bodyshell and cosmetic details like bogie side frames there are of course huge differences and it is thus not practical to use one as the basis for another. The unseen internals on the other hand..

 

 

The fact that a 69 is a co-co like a 37 is completely unhelpful in terms of using the internals from one to the other. The point is that the internals of a 56 and 69 (with a bit of thought) can be identical - close or similar are no use!

The only reason they are the most expensive (they aren’t as some other Farish diesels are more expensive) was that I was using the newest tooled items I could think of. Comparisons with a decade old Dapol Mk3 is not helpful as that tooling will have been paid off and tooling prices have increased considerably in that period. 

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Not So!

 

The biggest cost in model railways is the hours of design work to capture the accrete external appearance down to the last rivet plus subsequent Assembly and decoration of said external surfaces.

 

The chassis block is in fact the easiest (and cheapest) bit of the loco to produce. Think about it - in terms of the chassis or mechanics there is not a massive amount of difference between a 37 or a 69 apart form the dimensions - a designer can simply tweak the length of drive shafts, shorten / extended the body casting, etc with relatively little effort. By contrast  you cannot 'tweak' a class 37 bogie sideframe to look like a 69 one - it has to be a brand new design.

 

As such being able to 'reuse a Chassis block' is probably only going to save you around 10% of the cost of developing a new model.

 

Thanks for the reply but I’m well aware of the costs of design vs tooling vs assembly. 
 

More to the point I didn’t say that tooling a chassis was the most expensive part (though tooling still represents a very significant cost) but that the cost of tooling a chassis that could be used across two locos was beneficial as the cost could be shared. 

I’m not sure why you are comparing a 37 to the 69 as that is irrelevant - the key point is that the chassis for a 56 and 69 is identical because of the origin of the 69! You can use exactly the same chassis. 

3 hours ago, fezza said:

At nearly £320 I can see these sitting on shelves for awhile. You don't have to look hard to find Farish's last 4 car emu still for sale at £120... and that came out a long time ago.

 

I get the economies of scale argument, but that is a massive difference to Kato prices and quite a big difference to Farish's former emu prices. (And bear in mind a current Farish diesel and three coaches won't set you back more than about £260).

Are we talking fair like for like comparisons? Ie new tooling, full RRP non-discounted prices for both? A 31 plus 3 x Mk2fs at full rrp would be £150 + 3*48 ie £294 so not that different to the 319 (which is newer tooling and you’d expect to sell far fewer 319s proportionally than loco plus coaches). 

The Kato comparison is largely irrelevant unless you’re producing 5-10 times the normal Farish production run. 

I hope that the 319 does really well (I’m looking forward to getting one or two) because if it doesn’t then it is a struggle to see how anyone can make multiple units. 

24 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Cant understand why people expect a 56 to follow.  Despite the real world link, in model form these are very diffrrent beasts, cabs, roof, underframe tanks and body sides all very different. Only the bogie sides are common and the internals.

 

Because if you’ve tooled the chassis then that goes a long way to allowing you to split the tooling costs across 2 models. 

1 hour ago, Steven B said:

 

Never say never. Peco and Kato are working together to produce the OO9 "Small England" - a loco with no claims to any links to Japan as far as I know!

Absolutely! 

The OO9 loco is estimated to be £150 ie not far off the price of a 5 car Azuma which gives us a clue that if Kato did enter the UK market (with no potential appeal to their home market) then perhaps we shouldn’t be expecting the price to be the same as the Azuma. 
 

cheers Mike

2 hours ago, fezza said:

I wonder if Kato might be tempted by the 37x family. Not only is the Azuma superb it is fantastic value - a Kato  5 car bimodal for the price of a 2 car Farish 170 (with no lights or DCC socket...)

I’d be surprised if they did - they produced the Azuma because it was a Japanese design which they could sell in Japan (which is how they kept the price down ie by producing in considerably higher volume than would be possible for the UK alone). 
 

There are considerable non-trivial (in terms of tooling) differences in the Electrostar family. I’m sure some variants will eventually get done RTR but not sure which ones or whether they will all get done.