coline33

Pete, I am waiting to see the first RT bus on service 115 cross the bridge! Trust you got the close-ups OK? Colin.

Pete, further info on the use of the VEP driving trailer. Geoff Smith confirmed that the trials took place on Sundays, 15th and 22nd February, 1970 and again on Sunday 20th February, 1972. The driving trailer was S76370 from VEP unit 7739. I read that the Swanage Railway volunteers salvaged from Waddon Marsh station, platform edge coping slabs (platform was on a brick base), seats, lamp posts, fencing and the arris rails. So if you have not been there to get the right colour, here is your excuse!!! Colin.

Pete, the X girders between the pillars under the bridge of the original are larger that yours. It was a pity that I did not continue my walk along the pedestrian way that goes under the bridge as I could have photographed the original for Ernie and yourself. This I can do the next time I fill up with diesel - alas the tram does 80k on that stretch so impossible to take from that! Please do not forget to email me as the other photos are much closer so I do not wish to place in the public domain. Colin.

Pete, you might find the other photos I took more rewarding so look forward to hearing from you in due course. Colin..

Pete, from your layout photos I do not think you have the depth for low-relief buildings as the gardens between the boundary fence and the houses is greater. You may find it better for the houses to be 'printed' on the backscene with only the boundary fence, trees and foliage in the gardens added. Colin.

Pete, I attach three views to cover the Waddon Marsh estate from west to east. I have taken much closer views of the properties and if you need them please contact me direct. The original SR high concrete posts and wire mesh boundary fences are still in place although now lost in many places in the undergrowth! Colin.

Ernie and Pete, I can see the basis of Ernie's original query. West of the Purley Way bridge, it is Croydon B that would be the best backscene while east of it for just the Halt section, the Waddon Marsh estate makes a low height backscene. I hope that if in future the two were to come together for exhibitions then the south side of the line would provide the best backscene. Pete's work is coming along beautifully and I hope he can easily change the backscene side in future. I would like to think his 'blocker' bridge is modelled on the former Wandle Park Curve bridge which could be affixed to a temporary end piece for relocation whenever the next extension is ever built. Certainly in that situation, I would want to change sides for the backscene to avoid the height created by Croydon A's cooling towers!!! Keep up the good work, Colin.

Pete, have you the backscene details of the estate? If not, I have to go to Sainsburys Purley Way this week and I can photo it from the tram stop and path. Colin.

Pete, is your backscene board high enough for the pair of Croydon A's cooling towers??? Or are you leaving that to a future board so just sticking to the Waddon Marsh estate houses? Good job the refuse plant was not built then as you might get complaints when you switch to DCCSmell!!! Colin.

Yes, Malcolm, Trojan used their sidings for materials inwards and vehicles and parts outwards. Philips too used their siding. I worked for London Carriers in 1957 so was involved with Philips logistics in the UK. Already much of their UK manufacturing was being moved up north. So that leaves open the extent of traffic in Pete's 1970s period. Certainly OK for steam!!! I do recall seeing the tops of cranes at Beddington Lane Sidings through the houses and trees that bordered Mitcham Common when I went to Beddington Lane Halt. I find the area used by the Engineers have from time to time been referred to as the 'bridge works' presumably the ample open land was good for trial construction of girder and pointwork. Pleased to meet another Mid-Whitgiftian. I used run on the school track there in matches against them and an old friend Mike Fleet. Small world! Colin.

Great views, Dave, did you take any of Beddington Lane Sidings and halt? Colin.

Modelling the buses for Purley Way bridge, I recommend <www.londonbuses.co.uk> for full details of routes 115 (1948-1981) and 289 (1981 to date). D type buses from Sutton garage used 1948-1953, RT type during 1948-1971 from South Croydon, Sutton and Thornton Heath garages, SMS type 1971-1980 and DMS type 1980-1981 from Thornton Heath garage on 115. LS type from Elmers End garage on 289 until 1987 when London Country took over. So really no need to look later than 1984 unless a passenger service only with dereliction interest you!

Thanks, Pete, there is also a forum under "London Goods facilities in the Southern Region" under Prototype. It is here that I have responded about the Pointers sand train that came through Waddon Marsh on the Passenger Line for delivery of sand to the Blue Circle sidings from 1967 to 1971. It is an interesting working into those sidings from the Beddington Lane end. So as you can see I find I am having too many threads! So I will read "1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s" in place of "1970s" in your title and continue here, to ensure nothing I can add is missed for all to use as they want. Track supply is a nuisance and at 25 lengths a go for posting, is expensive. With the disappearance of the old Modelzone in Croydon (forget the new one in Smith's and alas the former staff who opened up in the basement of the former Allders store only carry kits and scenery items) I am forced to go to Tattenham Corner as my nearest but very now and again I do get to Gaugemaster at Ford in Sussex for the heavy stuff. For my lighter items both they and Kernow do me proud. Good blow-up of the original bridge and I will revert with bus details for some thing to go on it! You would not want to model the present bridge which I hate, using it quite a bit to get to Ikea, Homebase, B&Q, Sainsburys, Hobbycraft, etc. I would use the tram straight from home to Waddon Marsh but I go to Sainsbury's for the cheapest diesel and there were complications in my getting entry to the Ampere Way stop from Homebase and Courts (now Matalan) in the development stage of Croydon Tramlink as it was then. Colin.

Clive, I have just seen your post and some how the confusion on having the subject on at least three/four forums has caused me to respond to you on the power stations one. Certainly to stop confusion I am only posting here from now on and ignoring the 1970's tag as really the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s until 1984 is so interwoven when it comes to freight operations, and I see we have in this forum interest across these years. For instance when did the Goods Rings come off the signals - for the Goods Line I have 23rd February,1954 as they did not comply with BR practice! Its snippets like that coming up in conversation that could be a benefit for others. So Pete, can this forum be retitled? Colin.

Yes, Dave, great way for us all to get together again and I expect I am not the only one wondering for what Smiffy got expelled and when!!! Incidentally Dave, I still operate one of the trams from the Manor Park days on "West Croydon". If you come to the Wimbledon MRC show in November then look out for white roofed E/1 1083 (reserve car for service 42). Nick, as far as I am aware in my notes on WC-W, I have no track lifting dates. I tend to stop at closure dates as I hate the negativity that surrounds them. The WC-W passenger service first went on Waterloo's closure list in 1951, but no significant savings could be made due to the high level of freight. It arose again in 1962 on the 'unofficial list' but the result was still the same. Closure loomed again in 1971 and the line remained under a cloud until reprieved in July, 1974. Although closure of the Goods Line was stated in "Croydon's Railways" as 1st February, 1976, this is wrong. I suspect it was the date when the WTT stopped referring to regular operation over it. Fortunately, Geoff Smith was able to find the Special Traffic Notices which showed the last mention of movements over the Goods Line in March, 1977. Now to the Goods Siding which you would have seen from Beddington Lane. Although a continuation of the Goods Line, the operational divide was at the Waddon Marsh signal box which was resited to there in 1930 for the opening of the Goods Line and Goods Siding. The Goods Line was controlled by both West Croydon 'B' and Waddon Marsh boxes, whereas the Goods Siding was used by permission of the Beddington Lane and Waddon Marsh boxes for entry/exit but all other movements between boxes were performed by the train crew as they required. I trust I have given a basic view although there were a lot of instructions on how to use the Goods Siding. Kind regards to all, Colin. .

My sincere apologies, Pete, I misread my note on the closure of the Goods Line which greatly alters the scene for you. The last Special Traffic Notice was for March, 1977 - not 1972. Colin.

Pete, why not a special working taking a Class 85 from Willesden to Selhurst for traction motor repair behind a Class 33 or 73 or 74. Ernie, E4s were allocated to Norwood shed but I have only seen photos of E4Xs on Waddon Marsh trains - surely there must have been a time when a loco inspector had inadvertently put an E4 on by mistake. Like the Norwood depot tram inspector who put a wooden bodied car through the Kingsway Subway on service 33 when wooden bodied cars had always been banned! What is more I have photos to prove that! Anyway, I shall be getting an E4. When it comes to the 5-BEL, well I am only interested the 1948 liveried version, which I read somewhere Hornby will be releasing in the future. Alas I cannot find any record of such a rail tour with it through Waddon Marsh in any livery, but Ernie if yours is blue/grey then the "Farewell" rail tour could have had an "overlow" the same day using the remaining single unit and adding a run along the WC-W! Colin.

Pete, sorry to put a shot across your bows, but do you realise that the last freight through 'your side of Waddon Marsh bridge' was in March 1972 with coal empties being cleared. Thereafter, the only freight was the Fawley oil tank train via Wimbledon which was handled on 'Ernie's side of Waddon Marsh bridge'. I do not think therefore that there was much dereliction to be seen in 1972. After that date there was just the passenger service plus special workings. Mentioning dereliction, special workings and referring to your comment on another forum about plated-over gangways on 4-COR units, some 4-COR coaches were partially stripped at Beddington Lane Sidings in your period and their remains hauled through 'your part of Waddon Marsh'. Over the past fortnight I have passed all my data on Waddon Marsh to Ernie to share with you. I still think the period 1965 to 1970 would give you the best minimal operational pattern for 'your side'. Colin.

Ernie, have a look at Richard Adderson's photo I sent you of the train leaving Cawston. The four highfits can be clearly seen behind the Class 31 but the angle does not confirm whether or not they are loaded. My thoughts are that they should be to increase braking power. Colin.

Thanks, Bill, yes I have this as well as a colour one of the wagons in the train as it left Cotteshall behind the Class 31 for Beddington Lane. A past signaller on the WC-W commented to me in describing the operation at Beddington Lane that it was a good job there was not today's traffic on the Lane, even at that time of the morning!!! Colin.

NXEA interest in the WC-W line in the period 1967 to 1971 has caused me to reply, especially as Olddubbers refers to the 1434 Cottishall - Beddington Lane working and Fenway Park thought the APCM Cement workings had ceased. In fact, NXEA can model this interesting sand train which ran during his period. The Blue Circle facility had been redeveloped to produce their Sandtex products and to relocate Hall & Co. from East Croydon plus handle Ready-Mix Concrete's operations. Pointers got the contract for the supply of sand and purchased from BR a fleet of diagram 1/112 cupboard door minerals (renumbered into their PR series). The Blue Circle sidings were renovated to handle the 18 PR wagons plus the four highfits at the head (to help with braking an otherwise unfitted train) and being facing and in sight of the Beddington Lane SB was controlled from there. Train No.7O55 arrived at Norwood Down Yard and the Class 31 detached. A Class 73 backed on and at 0545 slowly under diesel power drew the train on to the electrified track to lower the shoes. The train was electrically hauled via the Passenger Line to arrive at Beddington Lane at 0610. Depending on its length, the gates had at times to be opened throughout the operation. The Class 73 on diesel power then propelled the train into the loop from which the Blue Circle sidings had a trailing point. As soon as positioned, the Class 73 rapidly left the scene 'light engine' booked no later than 0625, for Mitcham and Streatham Junctions for its return to Stewarts Lane. This did give a contingency for any trouble to keep the first passenger train of the day (0631 from West Croydon) on time (or warn intending passengers!). The breaking down of the train, shunting the Blue Circle sidings and return of the PR empties to Norwood Up Yard was in the hands of Classes 08 and 09. The incoming Class 31 at Norwood of course returned the PR empties to Ipswich to await next orders. I hope this helps NXEA with an additional operation. Good job Parkside Dundas do a diagram 1/112 kit at a reasonable price!!!

Thank you, Phil, for stating your recollection of a Q1 on a long coal train through West Croydon. I have been waiting for someone to confirm seeing one and being long, ie. more than 20 wagons, can you recall it snaking across the tracks at the bridge end of the station? Alas, so far no photos have come to light but I have always thought the Q1s must have appeared as the Qs had been allocated earlier to Waddon Marsh duties, albeit general freight but could have performed any shunting duty whilst there.

Pete and Nick. My first form and Geography master was a Mr. Barrington-Tatsford and if only I had known then that he was a railway book author!!! He was there until the end of my first year. It was a decade before John Smith accepted me for being more that just one of those 'kids sending me into the cellar for back numbers' that he told me who he was. Regarding the VEP motor coach, I wonder if the body shell is available from one of Hornby spare parts suppliers? Dave. Despite the silence since we last met at your Epsom Downs racecourse show, I have been keeping an eye on you!!! My 2-WIM is still with the first coach at floor level! I had been offered the chance that if I produced a second set of parts, a resin kit could be produced. I still mull this over but am impressed with the Shapeways process. If there was interest then it could spur me on further with the 2-WIM and eventually the 2-SL. I loved travelling on the 2-WIMs with their distinctive smell and the comfort of those deeply upholstered seats. Any chance of getting Hornby to do the 2-NOL after the 2-HAL? My 2-HAL is on pre-order so I am looking forward to this summer and pulling up the number two 'half' stencils at each end. My 2-EPB is so numbered each end leaving me to now add the removable rear oil lamp!

Nick, I remember well the old timber trestle to the 'bamboo' island, in fact I used to row the boat round it. Those good old days before the main building burnt down, or was it. Through Beddington Park, along Half Mile Lane (hold yer nose!), Beddington Lane, Guy Road, the Dovecot, back round the Park - we had marvellous winning cross-country teams in those days. In 1950 I started but not in the main school as the first form had to be accommodated in Beddington Orphanage/Manor. Pete, I read your comments on the other forum about test trains. After 1965 when WC-W was closed on Sundays, special workings occasionally occurred. I have a note that on two unknown Sundays with a Class 33 at one end and a Class 73 at the other, a VEP motor coach was used to "impact test shoe-gear". Another note is that on Sunday 22.8.1994 the Victoria - West Croydon service was diverted via Mitcham Junction and Waddon Marsh. Classes 319 and 455 passed through on that day. An interesting sighting I have noted was of a 4-EPB passing a 2-EPB at Waddon Marsh Halt on an unknown date much to the concern of the signalman who had never experienced EMUs passing there. The years I have notes for the movements of Waterloo & City motor coaches between Wimbledon and Selhurst are 1970 and 1972. As to pull-push stock, the only note I have is of Set 715 being used with a class H on a rail tour in 1958 - the loco used the water column on the Goods Siding at Beddington Lane Sidings. My father recalled one instance of being on steam hauled 2 coach trains but could not remember whether it was due to wartime conditions, the power problems of 1947 or a week when the Wandle flooded the line at Morden Park but ceretainly before the 1950's. All the best, Colin.