MarkAustin

The White replaces the Red. This was unique to the GWR (as far as I know) and was used to control movements off the main line to sidings. White meant route set to main line; green route set for siding. Mark Austin

The history of these engines is complex, and you reall;y need the account in the RCTS "The Locomotices of the Great Western Railway" for a full picture (If you haven't got this PM me with you email address and I'll scan the relevant pages). In short, painted black, lettered as standard (Fox transfers do Great (crest) Western transfers for black locomotives)---I suspect that in the picture you mentioned, the lettering was simply obscured by grime. Most if not all got GWR standard safety valves and cover, and (at least) 3085/6/9/99 got TVR "A" class chimneys. Again, few if any got a top-feed, and they were basically run with minimal maintenance until they needed an expensive repair---and all had gone by June 1930 except the last (3093) which staggered through to December 1931.

Could you give a bit more detail on the construction of the arch, in particular the height to baseboard top and arch bottom? Mark A

One dodge for keeping figures/vehicle in period, that I got from Tom Knapp who uses it on his Nn3 layout, is to fit all vehicles and people with pins on the foot or vehicle base. Sink correspondingly sized tube into the places where they are wanted. The pins hold them upright and in position. To change the period just lift off and replace. Mark Austin

I'm pretty sure thay have gone. I don't think they were technically abandoned. They seemed to be used in a Builders (?) yard. Mark Austin

I saw the 56xx at Ally Pally on Saturday, and it's not the Langley monstrosity, which has a distinctly oval boiler. It's more likely the Beaver kits version, which was available a few years ago, and then vanished from the market. The manufacturer has since resurfaced, and I saw him at Expong 2 years ago, picked up his catalogue and ordered a few (which are still sitting in my gloat box). He doesn't yet have a web presence to the best of my knowledge.

The 2mm Assocciation description of the twin-pack Opens is highly misleading, in particular for the 4-plank Open. The brief history of these beasts is that the GWR introduced a 4-plank Open in the latter part of the 19th century, and they were built with a single sided brake, lever operated, and acting on 2 wheels only. When the GWR was experimenting with a new brake 3 of these were fitted with various brakes, and eventually ended up with the DC1 brake. The last Lot of 4-plank wagons (of 500) was built with DC1, later mostly converted to DC1x. When the Diagram Register was set up, the wagons with DC1 brakes were allocated Diagram O5, but those with the lever brake were not allocated a diagram (the remaining 2 and 3 plank wagons didn't get a diagram either). As there were 23,000 or so (I'm doing this from memory) of the undiagrammed 4-plank wagons, they outnumbered the O5s by 460 to 1. When the GWR finally decided in c1928 to implement the BoT 1909 (?) directive on either side brake, 18,000 or so of the undiagrammed 4-plank wagons were fitted with an independant brake , lever facing right and acting only on the left-hand wheel on the hitherto unbraked side, thus conforming with the letter if not the spirit of the directive. This was supposed to be completed by 1939, but it is possible that, due to WW2, some of the single-side braked vehicles survived until after the war, but not many, and they went very quickly after that. You can also model the three plank wagon by removing the top plank and, if desired reinstating the rivet detail. I'm indebted to David Walley for telling me this. The situation with the 5-plank wagons is also a bit misleading as you can make several diagrams by ringing the changes on brakes and buffers, one more with a bit of work (one diagram, the first 5-plank wagon had five planks of equal height and was 6in narrower), and a whol slew of others if you are prepared to replace the diagonal strapping with a straight section (the kit has the less common variant with a "knee") or, indeed, if you are prepared to ignore a relatively small detail. Finally, you can make the GWR's first China Clay wagon by replacing one end with a tip door and fitting DC2 brakes (and a few more details). This one was pretty the only type of wagon to retain DC2s, as you couldn't have brake gear mechanism at the tipping end, as it would get clogged with slurry. I would warn people I'm doing this from memory, so I might have got some of the details wrong, and cannot remember the Diagram numbers concerned, but this is the general thrust of it. If anyone wants the diagram numbers, reply to this and I'll repost tonight. Mark Austin

You might occasionaly see two B-sets coupled together (generally as a response to a sudden extra load, e.g. Market Day or a fair), but normally a 4-coach set would be: Van Third, Composite, Composite, Van Third, with the van ends pointing out. Sometimes, a Third would be substituted for one of the Composites. The only real way of telling is from the Local Working programmes, but they're as rare as hens teeth, although there's a nearly complete set from the Bristol Division at the National Archives---up to 1928 in the Bristol Diary (RAIL 253) and 1930 on under its own reference (can't remember/find this one. Will look it up tonight. Mark

If you're looking for allocations, it might be worth checking the Wagon Registers at York. It's possible changes are recoded there. Can't confirm, as I've never looked at those entries, but worth a look if you're at York. Mark

There was some discussion of this on the GWR egroup a few years ago. The consensus was that, roofs were painted using White Lead, so they would very quickly weather to gray---it reacts with atmospheric pollution (sulphur from coal fires IIRC), it's not dirt. Given painting frequencies about 5-10% would be "new" enough to be white. There was some discussion about the GWR briefly using a non-fading white for a period in the 1930s, but no clear conclusion was reached. Mark

Chris, How likely/soon would this be. I've always had a soft stop for the GWR outside framed tanks and coul do with a couple. One as a saddle tank using the Dean Sidings resin bodfy.

For passenger trains, a plain Van is what other (lesser) lines called a full brake: i.e. a passenger vehicle with no passenger accommodation. The GWR only used Brake (e.g. Brake Third) for a vehicle with a brake compartment but no luggage accommodation. Van was never used, except for some specialised vehicle, when it was always qualified, e.g. Meat Van, for freight stock: they used the term Covered Goods Wagon for what we would more normally call a Goods Van. As had been said if any other passenger rated vehicle was used in a train it was specified by its name (e.g. Ocean Mails Van) or telegraphic code (e.g. Siphon G).

Laser cutting might be a way of doing it. These people http://www.yorkmodelmaking.com/ do a fair bit or railway work, and it might be worth contacting them. Mark

One point to remember about layout design is that, if there is a cattle dock, they were either as close as possible to the yard entrance, or had a dedicated entrance, in all cases allowing access to the dock without crossing any of the sidings and keeping any cattle being driven in as far away as possible for as long as possible. This was to reduce the chances of an engine (or something) panicking the cattle and causing an accident.

Be careful of this type of early colour pictures. Many of them are colourised B&W photographs, done by an artist with no necessary knowledge of railways, working from verbal instructions, e.g. green body, red underframe etc etc.

It's not an O21 as it only has the brakle on one side. Presumably it was sold rather than convert it to O21.

What's th4e sleeper spacing under the buffer stop?

Well, colour me flabergasted. As far as I was aware the GWR did not not letter any of it's saddle tanks (except for, IIRC, no 850 which got G W R lettering ffor a film). Was this just done for absorbed saddle tank locos? It's worth noting, too, that if a side tank loco had a centred number plate, the lettering was omitted if the space was too small. Unlike other companies, the GWR had only one size of lettering.

Did the loco have Great Western on the saddle tanks? Most of them didn't.

Have you considered using the free Gimp software to re-jig the photograph to give a square-on image. Here's http://www.templot.com/martweb/info_files/gimp_example.htm an example of how it was used to get a side-on image of a covered goods wagon. The Gimp is free, but as it's a Linux program it's a bit odd for Windows users. the home page is here: http://www.gimp.org/

Introducing myself and my model in progress. I'm [lanning to model Cockett station, Goods Branch and Yard in 2mm Finescale. Cockett was the first station West of Swansea: at the summit of Cockett Bank to the East and Gowerton Bank to the West---both 1 in 50 for most of their lengths, so pretty well everything was assisted, which is part of the attraction. The Goods yard was a bit unusual in that it was at the end of a branch about 40 chains long and at right angles (near enough) to the station. I'm going to start a blog, and I'll post a few plans when I'm sure I'm not breaching copyright on them.

Chris is of course right. memo to me: think and check before you post. It was the Bristol Division that used B-set for the twin Van Composite sets, and, as he points out, it was also used in the West Country. For information, the Bristol Diary is in RAIL 253/527 (1904) to RAIL 253/829 (1945) and continued into BR days in AN 125. I believe there are more Carriage working books (through trains) in the RAIL 1000 group, but cannot locate the exact reference. I will check tomorrow when I'm there and update.

In the interests of pedantry, I'd just remind people that a B-set in the meaning of two close coupled Van Composites is only a B-set in the Exeter Division. There was no company-wide system, and every traffic Division had their own scheme and, indeed, these could change over time. What you really need is the Local Carriage Working Programme for your area, but these are like hen's teeth. The only comprehensive set I knopw about is in the Exeter Diary at The National Archives (can't locate the reference at peresent). Leading on from that, if anyone knows where there is such a beast for the lines West of Swansea, I'd love to know. Preferably late 1920s, but really any time from the Grouping to the '50s would help.

They didn't just rely on the vacuum cylinder: they had extra cylinders to give more braking power. This photgraphs shows them under the coach http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10306871&itemw=4&itemf=0001&itemstep=1&itemx=4

Not a Southern expert, but I live in third rail country, and I'd say the beam is too high, presumably to avoid hitting lineside details.