Golden Fleece 30

I now have my Garratt back running, for how long I do not know I have attached photos of the original chassis blocks before and after I have modified them. I had actually removed the screws and started to separate the top block when I took the photo and due to wire and blue tack I did not want to force it back down afterwards. The top blocks have had a hole drilled in the top over the front o ring groove and some material removed at both sides on the front end. This is to hopefully give a little air circulation which seemed to be less than generous in its standard construction. I know it is not much, and unsightly, but I did not want to remove any of the motor holding part of the casting. The motors do have two small slots which I guess are for air circulation so more air around can only be a good thing. There is very, very, little room to fit wires in situ especially as I have fully hard wired these units now. Each unit could work independently now if weight was put on the pivot point as without the boiler in place they are front heavy and tip. I have had to resort to using blue tack to hold the wires in place and to insulate the soldered joins as there is no room for spare wire to be left loose and folded up inside the body as such, all original wires are laid in small grooves cast into the blocks (please give me an old Dublo or Tri-ang loco ). Both lights and the circuit board have been removed and disposed of so fingers crossed it lasts more than about 30 minutes , so far about 10. On a slightly different note I have found that the revolving coal bunker is off set, so much so that when placed on the track in one direction the whole unit will not go around 3rd radius curves with derailments, on my layout this would be bunker first on the outer track. By turning the units around so with bunker trailing on the outer track there is no issues. I did try to remove some material from the cab rear plate but to no avail. Garry

I have just received this response from Hattons and don't really know what to make of it. It seems lots of other manufacturers have lots of problems going by the response here. I will be finished my modifications and replacement motor later and will post photos when done. It seems Heljan have had a few Mazak crumbling issues with their class 47 if you look for it on here and replaced some chassis's. I know recent Hornby class 31's did with their bogie castings too. Garry

Hi Tony, I could but at the moment I have reassembled it BUT, a BIG BUT, when taking the wires out from there grooves one of the motor pick-up wires was bare against the back of the light as if it had "burnt" through and the red was more darker to black in this vicinity. This made me suggest overheating/short in this area. I thought I had photographed it clearly before dumping all the extra wire (no chip module now plain hard wiring) into the bin. Due to the poor photo with the wire in situ I had to search for the cut off part to re-photograph. Sorry for the poor photos of this. I have no idea if this was the problem but clearly something was wrong. The motor works in the chassis if I hold it but I need to remove some metal from the top block now as there is very little clearance between the casting and the wires. At the moment I dare not try to put the top on so that will have to wait until I have time. It really is silly how everything is so tightly packed it is no wonder there may be issues. Hopefully tomorrow or the day after I will have it running again. If after a while the same happens I will be sending the photos back to Heljan. Garry

Today I received my replacement motors from Heljan which come complete with the flywheel and prop shaft fitting already fixed. Great service. This does leave me a little unsure as to what will happen as they do look the same but I will put one in and see how it goes. Now unsure about the service. I was hoping that it might be the supposed "good" motor from the 02 but I have no idea if it is the same outer case and size as the Garratt was. I was hoping for something that looked slightly different to be a little optimistic. I can only wait and see. I have still had no more response from Hattons after they asked for the photos, someone said they were talking to a manager but I guess 2 days (3 including a Saturday) might not be enough Garry

Never mind over the counter, you have difficulty getting parts off the internet as well. Most companies don't provide spares these days. You do see the odd screw, wheel set for Hornby (a lot of which is because someone has stripped a good loco) but I have yet to see anything for Bachmann or Dapol, ( I don't look for Dapol so that could be a reason). It seems spares are no longer required from manufactures, you buy a loco to run till it stops (30 minutes to a few years) and then buy something different because that loco is not made anymore then.

Hello Francis, all I used for testing I think are Bachmann wagon wheels which still show their pin point axles. I am not worried about correct spokes etc just a confident reliable runner which it was until the motor blew.

Maybe they do look like it but they are ALL still running

I have just been reading this thread from start to finish and although I will not be buying another Heljan loco after having a Garratt one item MAY be similar, I don't know. A lot of Garratts had their front pony trucks derailing (or front drivers coming off), mine included, and after quite a lot of time I found out what the problem was. The buffer beams were actually resting on the NEM pockets preventing any vertical movement. It seems this was known by Heljan as both NEM pockets had been carved on the front top edge, not uniformly, either by a knife or file. Even after the carving the buffer beam was resting on the pocket so before this the leading drivers would have been off the rails. Fitting slightly smaller diameter wheels cured this problem and not one more derailment occurred in the 30 minutes I had it. Off Tango topic now Having had mine since it came out it was only a month ago it got its first run as I had 3-railed it for my layout, after 2 running sessions 30 minutes in total or less it just stopped with a whiff of smoke. As I knew it was out of guarantee, well over time and I had 3-railed it, I decided to strip the motor and the photos show what a mess it had become literally within a couple of seconds from running okay to this. Heljan are sending me some replacement motors but I am not convinced they will be any better if from the same supplier. Others had their motors go in less than 5 minutes, some after a few hours so no set pattern. Back on your topic above With reference to the gold or yellow gold numbers this was the instructions for coaches in regional colours (SR had yellow or cream on green coaches) not locos. I worked at the carriage works in York from 1968 till it closed and the numbers on maroon coaches (including Guard, Buffet Car etc) were transfers in both colours WITH a black edge to them. When they were being disposed of I did get quite a supply but over the years they cracked and were thrown out. These were gold size (varnish fix) transfers not self adhesive which appeared later in the Blue and Grey era. In a post post someone said Tri-ang and Dublo had bomb proof valve gear. Maybe so but mine are all still running 50 and 60 years later, my Garratt lasted 30 minutes. Modern locos may look more to scale than their counterparts but they do not have the quality feel about them or will last I imagine 10/15 years although i will hopefully be proved wrong on that. One comment was made about being expected to add broken pieces etc on, RUBBISH, you do not buy a car and expect to fit the door handles etc because they have come off during delivery. When you pay for goods by law it is supposed to be "fit for purpose". Too many people just go along with it and this is what causes, lets, manufacturers get away with poor shoddy workmanship. Garry Garry

Just had this message reply to me on the HRCA forum after putting photos of the Garratt motor on there. No doubt there will still be quite a few more happening.

Out of interest, yesterday I wrote to Heljan to ask if they had actually had any knowledge of the Garratt problem (thinking Hattons may not have forwarded anything) and stated that a considerable few, in my opinion possibly 40 or more Garratts, had been returned to Hattons being defective possibly with a similar problem but no one else had opened a motor up. I said there had been considerable discussions on this form regarding this and actually sent a link to the Forum. Although they are sending me some replacement motors this reply does not inspire me with confidence especially after reading about a class of diesels they manufactured that were supposed to get a new chassis for burnt out motors. Reading about those diesels it did say one issue was probably a tight gearbox, my Garratt one works still as mentioned but I cannot say if it is tight or loose as I am only turning it with my fingers via the short prop shaft in a confined space. Its make your own minds up on this one now. Hi Garry Thanks for the e-mail. Unfortunately we don’t follow the various forums around the world (UK, Denmark, Germany etc). Although each locomotive that we have ever made does (unfortunately) have some that are defective. Either by the electronic or motors or perhaps something else. This also goes for the LMS BG. All model train manufactors around the world are trying to avoid this, but when it comes down to electronic and motors (just like a car), then something can go wrong and hopefully we and our retailers are trying to help customers where there are a problem. Med venlig hilsen Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Best regards,

Heljan are already sending me replacement motors FOC.

No, nothing from Hattons yet Tony. Using their website for contact I could not post photos unfortunately but did tell them what had happened and what I had seen and if they provided an e-mail address I would send them the set. Garry

Hi, mine was on DC only. The loose wire? I have no idea about that one but I have cut off the white plastic connectors now for each unit. If I remember correctly when I first tried it out (after 3-railing) only one of the lights was working, that wire may be why, but as I was not interested in lights (or sound) I never looked to see if it was or not. What I can say is when the top block was removed the motor had "locked up", after removing it a few twists with my fingers had it revolving again so I wired it up to a controller via the brush terminals and it then gave a very, very quick revolution before glowing then smoking. At that point I thought it was out of guarantee (time wise and I had 3-railed it) so I had nothing to loose taking the motor end off to reveal what you see on the previous page.

I have just been informed by Heljan that the motors have already been posted out to me. Fingers crossed these are okay but very good service so far from Heljan.

Here are the photos you asked for regarding the circuit board. Garry

I wrote to Heljan last night about 9.00pm sending my photos and at 7.15 am this morning (yes that early) got a reply asking for my address so they can send replacement motors. I cannot fault the response in time or outcome from Heljan and just hope the new motors are to a better specification. I did specify that I knew it was out of guarantee and had only just started using it and they have been more than helpful so far. Fingers crossed. Garry

This is only after about 30 mins run time in total.

For interest this is one of the brushes out of the motor alongside a 5 pence piece. I don't know how long Heljan anticipated these to last. The brush seems to have the same tapered shape as the commutator.

Well, after a short while my Heljan Garratt has succumbed to the dreaded lock down. After stripping the casing to remove the motor the wheels were "free" as much as they can be as the enclosed gearbox stops them turning but by turning the prop shaft the chassis was okay. I then decided to apply a little power to the brushes on the motor and a bright glow from inside was seen with a puff of smoke. I had no option now but to remove the end of the motor to look inside and it looks like the commutator has melted. The shape looks very strange being V shaped and you can see all the "bubbling" of the plastic and the commutator sleeving. It is as if the commutator is a thin piece of copper around some plastic which due to the build up of heat has destroyed it all. I cannot run on one motor as the gearbox stops the second unit from moving so will see what Hattons/Heljan say about the motor. Garry

I have to agree with you David about the "muck" Mazak wheels can pick-up and as you say Romfords were quite bad. I wonder if there was a different make up in the Mazak or just that we did not really notice it as such due to the nickel on one side being a lot cleaner? Regarding the Tri-ang motor bogie magnets I put the wide part with two slots in the vice and snap the prongs that go either side of the cog off with a hammer. What is left still holds the nylon bearing down but no magnet near the wheel as such. How many R1's have lost their chimneys over the years? Garry

It is not just you David, a lot of people over the years have all noted that plated wheels do not give as much traction as non plated do. It was possibly due to the far better current pick-up (less resistance or something) that they were done that way. Even now my old Tri-ang locos with sintered iron tyres are better than their later plated wheel models. I remove the magnets where possible as they are not needed for nickel track and I will not be going back to it, who would? The magnets do tend to hold back the wheels so removing them gives the little extra freedom. It's all part of the fun of the hobby I guess. Garry

Here we have the Co-Bo which has had its tyred wheels replaced with plain steel ones. This is probably its limit without extra weight added but it is long enough for my layout so I probably wont be looking at increasing the weight. The R1 on the up line is comfortably pulling 6 coaches and a wagon later in the clip. The last shot shows her trying to compete with Mallard for the world speed record I think. Garry

Here are my 2 Garratts (1 Heljan and the other Dublo) working the up and down lines. The last clip shows that 2 fireman maybe needed to shovel the coal on at the speed it is racing at. I have mixed feelings between both locos as they both have good and bad faults with them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJQsd1qFpcQ&feature=youtu.be

Here are my 2 Garratts (1 Heljan and the other Dublo) working the up and down lines. The last clip shows that 2 fireman maybe needed to shovel the coal on at the speed it is racing at. I have mixed feelings between both locos as they both have good and bad faults with them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJQsd1qFpcQ&feature=youtu.be

The boiler on the Dublo one is a Whitemetal casting with both tanks made from Resin. Mine is not as strong as the Heljan one. That pulled 35 Dublo wagons as if they were not there, the Dublo one slips and at times struggles and not start with the same set. I am hoping to check it and film it soon before asking about it, as for 100 wagons, forget it unless all Wrenn pinpoints.