Clearwater

6 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Will be interested to hear your comments on how it runs, Clearwater, especially slow running and the smoothness of stopping and starting, vital on a small BLT.  You must be a very happy bunny, a 94xx of your very very own, and you will, ok, Johnster, don't start that nonsense again...

 

Still pending at Rails for the moment.  Probably just as well there's a lockdown or I'd be seriously considering going up there to pick it up, which would cost more than the loco itself!

I've only briefly had it out of the box.  I'll try and give it a brief run tonight but it may be the weekend as I have a lot on at the moment!

Pleased to say my 9400 has arrived from Shildon.  Hold on @The Johnster its nearly here!

GWR fans would suggest including the GH Soole images in the albums edited by David Geen et al.  Invaluable books particularly with the appendices covering the diagrams of the coaches in the trains.

David

23 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I was!!!   

Ha!  My thoughts were Cox and Danks at Oldbury/Langley Green.  I wondered if any locos would have been towed through the station from the Stourbridge direction. 

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

No need to be like that about Cradley Heath...  

 

And just to explain to non-locals, it's pronounced "Crade-ly", not "Cradd-ley".  

As I grew up in Stourbridge, I’m aware how to speak proper!

I wasn’t thinking of Cradley in that context!

2 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

At Brighton once, just before Christmas, a train arrived in the depot in the early hours with a well-dressed chap sound asleep in a compartment. When he was woken up he asked "Are we at Hastings yet?" It turned out that he had got on at Victoria much earlier, been to Hastings, back to VIC, down to Brighton and into Lovers' Walk without being disturbed. The staff felt sorry for him so, as the last train had long gone, they gave him a lift home in the depot van.

my understanding is that there’s many a taxi/mini cab driver at rural stops beyond commuter zones who make their living from “refreshed” oversleeping passengers.  I’m put in mind of an episode of Drop the Dead Donkey where the morning after the Christmas party, the camera opens on the editor waking up fully dressed.  As the camera pans out, you realise he’s passed out on a bench in Oxford railway station!

David

2 hours ago, 08221 said:

I've worked in Blackheath for the last 7 years. 

 

Pre covid, my lunch walk was down to Rowley Regis station to see what was running. Often thought it would make an interesting model, especially with the old oil terminal.

Quite a few options.  Bankers dropping off post Old Hill bank and running back light down the hill?  If death steam was your thing, wasn’t there a big scrap yard near by too?

2 hours ago, seahorse said:

I was helping on a friend's roundy-roundy and fiddle yard layout.

 

A young lad said "do you know what's wrong with this layout, mister? You've only got these two tracks at the front to see trains, and you've got all those trains at the back that we can't see. It's the wrong way round!"

 

 

In certain respects, that's what engine shed layout allow you to do.  There was a GWR one in the 80s I recall seeing at Warley, in the Harry Mitchell days, that was particularly impressive as it was full of kit/scratch-built non-RTR locos.

I've often thought an effective exhibition layout might be a large engine shed just outside a main station.  Having running lines for parade style trains to go past and shuttling of an impressive motive power collection to and from the shed.  Obviously a loco could depart the shed and then be seen a short while later hauling a train past and vice versa with the train loco coming onto shed having been seen hauling an inbound service.

David

2 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

It is not just magazines that have suffered this "dumbing down" (I think Your Model Railway started the trend). One of my pet hates is TV documentaries which start the episode telling you what is going to be covered for the rest of the program then when ad breaks occur have a "coming up" segment before the break, then a recap after the break and finally a "next time" at the end.

The recent , and otherwise good, C5 Dan Snow documentary on the Dambusters did exactly that and drove even my 8 year old son barmy!  One of the advert breaks even promoted the programme we were actually watching which is, ahem, novel.

David

10 hours ago, 46444 said:

 

Didn't that used to be an electronics/computer and embroided garments emporium just up from the Pack Horse Inn? ... 

 

Blimey! Times change.

You'll be telling me there's a vape shop next!

To @The Stationmaster's point, I think there may well be a difference between what's interesting for people here and what actually sells. I'd be amazed if year in / year out that a variant of the Flying Scotsman wasn't one of their biggest selling items.  However, I've no more than a cursory interest in the new A1/A3s - I own two or three already which is more than enough for me.  The differences on the new ones probably wont send me hurrying to buy them.  However, I wonder if maybe there were tooling/production issues given the panning that bent running frames etc were getting on some of the more recent A1/A3 releases that may suggest that either the tools weren't as compatible with the machines used (perhaps a move of factory?), something else has changed that's made the assembly process not work as well or simply the tools were old and worn any of which could necessitate a new tooling.  If I were marketing Hornby's range, I'd look to turn these points to make a positive story about a new tooling and how great it is and what new features there are - who wouldn't in their shoes?

I'm sure a similar argument applies to the 9F as to the A1/A3.  On the retro style Hornby Dublo, several people had speculated they would do more and whilst its dangerous to analyse anecdotes, it looks like the Duchess of Montrose sold well.  I suspect these will sell and without much of a discount to the collector market.  There seem to be a lot of Mark 3 coach livery variants - the LSL Blue Pullman will sell fast together with its coaches.  Smart move to sell separately and allow people to assemble.  Have they made more power cars than coaches?  I would think so.  But perhaps to drive overall economics, its useful to have a larger run of mark 3 coaches but paint / print them (whatever the process is) is in smaller batches.  eg run 10,000 units but in five liveries to get the overall unit cost down.  

David  

I'll have to try and find my P2 book but it would some of the P2s have got painted into wartime black before their conversion?  At best, ?, they'd have got extremely grubby and 'heavily weathered' under wartime cleaning regimes offering scope for an additional livery or two for Hornby.  I, too, like the idea of a fictional P2 livery with valence fully removed in BR lined green or possibly even express passenger blue!

I agree that this looks very like the Marklin range and that's no bad thing.  Ours runs reasonably well, is simple to put together compared to a traditional train set and doesn't require wiring up or putting on a base board.  It's also materially cheaper than a starter rail set.

To me, this is a branding exercise.  Hornby's brand is toy trains.  Kids still love trains - see the amount of wooden trains in any conventional toy shop inc Tesco etc.   As such, who are you selling to, who is placing the orders, who are you competing against? If it's the London Toy Fair, I'd expect the buyers from the major UK toy chains, department stores, online retailers, supermarkets etc are the attendees and the people placing orders.  Of them, how many have even heard of Marklin but I'll bet that if you test the name Hornby with them, they will at least know the name.  Take it to the next level, if you're in The Entertainer, for example, will the parent buying have heard of Marklin or Hornby?  What are they prepared to spend £30-40 on?  Is the range extendable? I'd bet they'd take a Hornby set if attractively priced and packaged.  Can the initial interest from a product like this help Hornby/Oxford cross sell starter airfix kits, diecast cars, diecast tie-ins, the Hogwarts Express set etc?

Sure, this product may not hit the rmweb market but it's not designed for it.  

David

6 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

And anyway if you order the Hornby 'generics' through Hattons they get your money either way, so win win for them!?

I doubt it.  More like an assuaging of some loss as under their own commission they would have made the producer margin as well as the sales margin.  

3 minutes ago, Haymarket47 said:

Both of mine too I’m afraid. I hope this new system will encourage kids in but I’m not convinced. When I think back they loved the Brio trains and making different track layouts. For a while they liked the basic oval and a railroad hauling toy soldiers in wagons but the novelty wore off sadly. Now it’s PlayStation all the way

Mine love building Brio track systems (currently they are seeking to recreate the SVR mashed up with "Train Truckers" where they load locos onto low loaders and drive them around the country...).  Worth noting that the brio gauge is roughly 16.5mm as well.  If these locos can run on that as well, they might have a flexible product.

On tooling, I was following a set of posts on Facebook lamenting the inability to be able to swap tender tops between chassis as the spacings could be slightly differently spaced (never mind the loco/tender connections being differently wired.). 
 

I think there’s a tendency for us non-experts to assume because a prototype, especially the GWR, used common components that it makes sense for a model to also use the same common components.  I don’t think that holds given the difference between the two.  Even if it does make sense to have a common design and save time in the drafting office, if the IP of the tooling is owned by a factory, they may not transfer it to a second factory.  It would not surprise me if a manufacturer was tendering between different factories for each new model hence a notionally similar GWR 3500g tender could end up being internally different as it makes more sense for a factory to own its own tools.  
 

There’s also the gap between model iterations to consider, as well as differences between main and railroad.  It may have made sense to make a mould in say two parts 10 years ago but a new, larger machine, may facilitate a larger single piece saving on labour costs for assembly.

THere are probably other factors but it does seem logical to me that each new run at each factory will have a new tool.  That may differ if you plan a range, eg a mogul/prairie/manor where your design concept expressly provides for the variations.

Its my birthday today... Will Rails announcement be something I actually want or the pair of socks from my aunt Neillie?

5 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Eh? how many firms stop taking orders over Xmas these days? It's because nobody knows what our trading terms will be with the EU in 4 weeks' time!

lol.  Whatever you think of brexit, orders will be made in the new year.  
 

Businesses all know what they will be doing.  It’s either x on wto terms or y on single market terms.  They’ll have a plan for each and be ready to enact.  they’ll have made that plan a while ago.  
 

Hornby is an extremely small entity but with a disproportionate public profile.  It has extremely high brand recognition.  Making the statement they did has been done deliberately to garner publicity aka free advertising.  The fact it ties in with a traditional close period is helpful.

37 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I suspect suspending orders is worth less than the publicity such a story generates, plus it makes it easier on staff over christmas. I am find this year everyone is winding down a week earlier than normal.. I reckon next week is going to be very quiet.

I agree.  This news story is a non-story using the brand’s high profile to place a story turning something you do anyway into a story.  It’s smart, free advertising...

I think there's a danger on forums like RMweb that we assume our knowledge is typical of those of rail enthusiasts and modellers more generally.  I'm willing to be that most people on this list could identify some of the various different classes suggested above but that many of Hornby's customers will not.  Those "one-offs" that have sold have a certain iconic status.  Even as an 8 year old, many years after the end of steam in mainline service, I knew what a P2 was, the story of how they were rebuilt and that of the Hush Hush.  I also knew Saints, Stars, Castles, Kings.  Perhaps learning to read from OS Nock's Gresley Pacifics and Blenkinsop's Shadows of the Great Western unduly influenced me....However, at that tender age, I doubt I'd have identified a Claughton or a Prince of Wales.  On the other hand, something that was in the NRM would have been relatively readily identifiable.

As such, if there are to be "left field models" (Trade mark and patent pending :-)  ), they have to be:

• recognisable to the "average enthusiast." 
• shiny and glamorous
• Stuffed and mounted in a museum as well as shiny and glamorous

Noticeable that Hornby has largely steered away from pregrouping stuff (I am aware this is a generalisation and they've produced some items in pregrouping livery) which fulfill my second two criteria.  However, examples that spring to my mind tend to be Bachmann linked (SECR C class, Director, Rails Precedent, City of Truro, MR Compound, Prototype Deltic).  Equally the D class being produced by Dapol for Rails again.  Perhaps that goes back to the excellent post by @DutyDruid on the last page and the relative place of the two firms in the market.  Hornby is the stand out brand name with consumers.  As such, they will always play it safer than Bachmann in terms of choice of prototype and livery.  Why use tooling slots that could sell an iteration of a train set with an A3/A4 and teak/pullman coaches that you know will sell relative using the slot for a prototype that went out of service 70+ years ago of which there is only a handful of people will recognise and may be a riskier item to sell?  Bachmann doesn't have that brand recognition and needs to drive its sales via a different route hence, arguably, a greater willingness to work on commissions for museums in particular and a business model that has seen the rerun rights pass to them after a period of time.  A good way to spread and manage their risk.  Someone will no doubt correct me, but I don't think Hornby has taken that approach to date.

I may be wrong, this is a risky game to play, but if Hornby is to be "left field", it has to overtly fit the criteria above particularly the first one (hence why they felt comfortable with the P2, W1, A2s).  What could fit in that category?  Perhaps the turbomotive, the leader, something that looks a bit like an A4 but isn't like a P2 bugatti front?  Perhaps they look to use the tech / motor developed for the rocket in other era 1 locos - Coppernob?  However, I'm sure what they'll go for has obvious mass market appeal.

David

20 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Given that an RTR coach is now around the GBP 40 mark or more , twice that for a new Slaters kit wouldn't be too bad. I'm blowed if I'm going to pay that for a second-hand one, sight unseen, though.

Now at £150!  I hope Slaters don’t follow the auctions and get ideas about the right pricing points for a reintroduced range.

58 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Those carriages look good John.

 

I guess you just strike lucky when you go into eBay and find them. Hopefully we will get some new kits from Slaters soon.

Indeed.  Be interesting to see what they retail at.  £125 for a kit off ebay is too steep for me.  I did see there’s a load of kit built GWR coaches on there at present.  Let’s not kid outselves - we’re all following them!

36 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

I think (but could be wrong) that the Drysellwyn name had changed locos by 47

so definitely worth checking.  (I can’t remember which version of the loco Hornby did)

 

5076 was renamed in 1941 to Gladiator.

Different era but Hornby eurostar is articulated.  Does the APT have articulation as well?

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Anyway, just to put you (and others) into the picture regarding donations to CRUK. Thanks to your loco and the contributions from the likes of Ray, Frank, Lee, Ron, Brian and Geoff (apologies for any I've missed), over £200.00 has gone to CRUK of late. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

Whilst I suspect I may know the answer to this question, have you given any thought to setting up a "Justgiving" or similar page for your virtual loco clinics?  Given the lack of exhibitions and inability therefore to put money into the tin, those of us who might want to contribute would be able to do so easily.  It may also entice some of the overseas followers of this thread to be able to contribute as well!

Kind regards

David