Clearwater

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Sir, that pic is priceless. However i am also guilty of missing whole areas at an exhibition, so have some sympathy. 

I was there today and didn’t find the seating area until after we’d sat on the floor and eaten our lunch.  Felt another seating area was needed near thr pizza outlet area.

Enjoyed the show however was surprised to see the odd pigeon flying about in the main hall.  If that had decided to deposit on my layout I’d be seriously annoyed.

David

I like online instructions too.  Helps you understand whether its in your skill range or not.  Plus easy to find them again if you want to check a point, search for a word or zoom in to make a picture bigger or whatever.

I've not tried a HL chassis but I did follow the instructions for one of their gearboxes.  An excellent set of instructions and despite the complexity I was thrilled when I got a working box at the end.

David

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

As @Andy Hayter says above, we are not the target for TT. Not by a long shot. It doesn't interest me in the slightest, and I don't suppose Hornby are bothered as again, I'm not their target. 

absolutely,  almost everyone here already owns stock, a layout and is interested enough to post on a construction orientated thread.  Some, a minority, will see a new starter pack in a different scale the chance to do something different.  Perhaps a serial layout builder like Andrew P but most of us, like the OO/em/p4 debate will stick with where we are.

  I’d be interested if the mods and @Andy Ystart to see new joiners to rmweb who’ve purchased these new sets and are moving out into layouts from train sets.

David

From Railadvent. Again, I thought this type of colloboration between the two leading GW mainline preservation centres made sense.  I suspect that at some point the two entities will merge.

David

Great Western area groups team up to develop heritage trains market (railadvent.co.uk):

9 hours ago, didcot said:

It goes to show that enthusiast days at Didcot do work. My man tells me 2000 tickets were sold, plus those coming in on the rail tour.

 

a few years ago on one of the GWS’ membership consultations, I did say that I thought they should do more with Tyseley, an extension of the Shakespeare Express to Oxford with the loco being turned and serviced at Didcot could be special.  I thought there’d be something special about seeing a visiting loco arrive, be turned and serviced at a facility designed for that purpose.

Hopefully not a one-off and that this will be repeated.

2 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

I think we need to recognise there are3 groups involved in this fidelity issue.

 

Those that don't know and maybe don't care - the majority.

Those that do know and can give chapter and verse of what should be.

Those that know it's wrong but don't necessarily know exactly what would make it right.

I’m firmly in category 3.  I’m way too young to have seen steam age operations.  Almost every photo I’ve seen of steam age operations shows the variety of stock that made up trains.  Something too uniform, too consistent would make me think is that wrong?

what I do like is where layouts have flip charts ‘ screens  telling the viewer what thr train is, what the formation is, what design/type the carriages are.  That allows me to educate myself, look at the coaches and understand a little about what they are.  It also tells me that the modellers have taken care and know what they’re doing.

David

It strikes me as supremely ironic that what's now feted as the loco beyond all locos, such a national icon etc etc etc was so celebrated in 1963 (disclaimer don't know exact year but you get my point), that it would have been sold for scrap and didn't event make the BTC list of locos worth preserving.

32 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

 

 

I might be of the generation which overlapped between Meccano and Lego. I had both as a child (lucky boy) but despite strong encouragement from my dad, I never quite clicked with Meccano. It was too hard on small fingers, tightening all those nuts and bolts, whereas Lego could be assembled quickly and without sore fingertips. I found Meccano hampered my creativity where Lego allowed it full-flight. Lego was a very different beast back then, too, with relatively few specialised blocks and only a few colours compared the spectrum available now.

Apologies for being a bit offtopic albeit still constructional.  I'm finding contemporary lego which I'm building with my kids, more constrained than the classic lego of the late 70s/early 80s given the higher number of specialist pieces.  That said, the stuff available commercially is phenomenal. I built their Collett Hall with my kids (Harry Potter branded).  Even included a tapered boiler.  Had to quarter the wheel for valve gear.  Did building lego fire my ambition to do other stuff?  Absolutely.

Sites like BrickLink Studio allow you to create your own designs and order bespoke kits which is just amazing. What people have built with these tools is again incredible.  Example from an open day at  Acton Museum.

David

F14??? Crack open that toplight market.  Ah Go on.  Go on.  Go on....

7 hours ago, Hroth said:

Too much Flying Scotsman. 🙄

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Apparently it is the best thing since sliced bread.

It would appear that the sainted Flying Scotsman actually predates sliced bread.....Perhaps sliced bread is the best thing since the Flying Scotsman?

I agree that the market for pre 1960 toys has gone.  But the market for nostalgia and recreating your youth remains.  See listing here for late 1970s Lego kits:

I was given one of these in 1979/80 or so and I guess would have retailed for sub £30. Vintage / out of production lego is now quite collectable.  Ditto the original Star Wars action figures.

I've no interested in tinplate or Hornby dublo trains.  Would I buy something that I really wanted from a collection?  Possibly... Price would have to be right though!

David

2 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Which trip did you do?

 

We went on the Welsh Marches in March and Cardiff and back in June.

time flies. Was the SLS special on 25 September 2021.

30 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

Will do.

5043 undertook a couple of mainline test runs on Friday, having recently returned from overhaul:

 

Took my son behind Club last year.  Some sustained high speed running.  Fab day.

Typically, I can’t now find it but this guy uses similar methods:

he posts on rmweb as @grob1234

David

34 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Things have been very quiet at Henley-on-Thames for the last week or so.

 

I had started on the build for the chassis kit for my Metro tank - reluctantly that has stalled for a while. I have ordered a "box thing" from Poppy's Wood: http://www.poppyswoodtech.co.uk which will ensure  the chassis is 100% square.

 

In reading the Iain Rice book on Chassis building, the type of screw in fittings I had bought from Comet models were not his first choice! I doubt Poppy's Wood were around when he wrote the book though.

 

Hopefully this will arrive next week.

 

In the meantime this what it looks like so far:

 

 

I am looking forward to getting it finished and onto the tracks.

If you’ve not seen it, I’d recommend tony wright’s video on loco making.  If you Google it and ‘right track’ you can find  it on YouTube.  Helpful as you can stop, pause , rewind and see how he does it.

6 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

I’ve had this issue as well, I think I could

be the only modeller thats contemplating switching back! to DC! 

I am as well! Though when I have the space to try and start the plan in my head, what I'll probably do is think how it can be wired for both DC and DCC operation.  I think (conceptually) that basically opening the switches to all sections creates a "single" circuit which should work for a DCC control.  Clearly if switching mode, you'd have to take off all chipped/non-chipped locos respectively.  I'm thinking of the (limited) times when the play value of DCC might be fun and designing in the flexibility from the outset is easier than retrofitting.

David

1 minute ago, Edwardian said:

A beautiful model of a handsome prototype, but, my goodness, this thing is HUGE! 

 

It is a substantial beast by anyone's standards, but I am used to small Victorian locomotives, so things like this tend to blow my mind. Even the sturdy bulk of the LB&SCR E5 seems svelte in comparison. I shall have to dig out the I3 for comparison; that was my largest tank engine until today. 

 

Here next to a LNWR Coal Tank, 'for scale'.

 

how does it compare size wise to the similar era large Churchward prairies?

It a lovely livery.  There’s a lovely looking B5 photo on Tony Wright’s thread today that’s worth looking at if you’ve not seen it!

Hi Tony,

Many thanks for patiently answering my queries.  The series of photos above is amazingly helpful to see how you've put the chassis together.  In terms of how you've joined the body to the frames, what is the bit you've glued(?) to the underside of the cab?  I assume that you've then measured and cut the screw so it doesn't protrude into the loco's cab?

David

Tony, 

A few questions if I may.  Is the lead added to the front pony to ensure it stays on the rails?  Did you need to add a similar weight to the pony?  And I assume you've soldered the lead?

Thanks in advance

David

Patchway is also a heavily photographed location making it ideal as a modelling subject.  Though maybe not ideal as so many photos allows the nitpickers a lot of licence!!

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

There is a difference between people buying kits that they don't make (a similar activity to buying tens or even hundreds of models - usually locos - that stay in boxes on shelves or in display cabinets) or attempting to successfully build an a kit. In the later case people have varying degrees of skill and/or acceptable standards. 

 

I wonder to what extent skill sharing happens in many clubs, or for the apparent majority of modellers who go it alone, through media. While online videos and to a minor degree articles in the modelling magazines can be seen as providing the information, nothing is better IMO than one to one (or one to a few) guidance and mentoring. Demos at shows help, but once the modeller returns home they are on their own again. I also find written and illustrated work (even on forums) more useful than videos as it is easier to refer back to specific points. 

 

If someone produces a model that runs badly, where can they look for guidance on sorting it out? Ask a question on RMWeb for example and you'll get a dozen different answers, leaving you possible more confused. Being a member of a small, like minded, group of fellow modellers can be a help. This is something that local Area Groups of the national Societies can provide.

 

People also have different standards, especially in relation to fit and finish. Many of the kit built carriages and wagons offered for sale on eBay are evidence of this. If modellers had more access to "teaching" would that also raise their standards, if they new how to create better models, use different materials and techniques, etc?

 

 

 

 

I think it depends on an individual's learning style.  Personally I find old black and white magazines or books with poor/low resolutions pictures next to useless.  Hence I was grateful Tony posted his stage by stage pictures a week or so ago.  Equally, his Making Tracks video is fantastic for seeing each stage in as close to a demonstrator as possible.  Whilst I've had some (excellent) tuition with Tony, I've not done a MIssenden Course.  I would at some point because its by doing that you learn and develop your own method.  If there's one thing I've learnt reading this thread is that there isn't always a single right way of doing things.  Different people can get similar results through different methods albeit there are some common themes.

On hoarding, I own more kits than I've built but I too am 'cash rich time poor.'  So why buy?  Some of these kits are long out of production so if I see what I want for sale, I'll buy it and hold it.  eg a Great Bear kit.  If something, eg the Nucast Aberdare, is reissued, I'll buy because I don't know when it'll become unavailable again.  

The final thing I've learnt from here is to have a vision on what you ultimately want from a model.  That gives you focus and clarity of mind.  I have a layout in mind.  Perhaps it'll never get built but each day I learn a tit bit or two from this thread or elsewhere and it gets stored away.

David

3 hours ago, gr.king said:

 

I limit my enthusiasm to only the very best examples, and that standard is not achieved by many. They are only ever as good as the humans, the quality of equipment, the material chosen, and the selected methods...

Isn't that true of any modelling medium whether it is photo etches for brass kits, masters for castings etc etc?

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As promised, pictures of the new A3 I'm building...........

 

 

Even if frames are designed to be erected using turned spacers and screws, I still jig-assemble them; in this case using my ancient Jamieson one. 

 

I have used the Poppy's Wood one, but this is more-convenient - and rusty! 

 

 

DJH suggest that the 'American' system of pick-up be used (loco and tender live to opposite sides). I dislike this system, and employ conventional .45 nickel silver wipers (the frames being live). To accommodate the pick-up pads (copper-clad sleeper section), I've soldered in extra spacers for them to be expoxied-to. 

 

 

With everything running sweetly at this stage, I turn my attention to the bodywork's construction.

 

Of which, more later..............

 

 

 Thanks @Tony Wright - much appreciated.  Whats the logic for removing the bearing on the inside of the non-driven wheels?  As I understand it, the logic on the driven wheelset is to provide more space for the gearbox but for the non-driven wheels is to reduce friction drag?

David

On 01/02/2023 at 20:25, Tony Wright said:

How long do you want the list to be Andy? 

 

Seriously, what I've found with many duff runners is that at no point during the construction was 'due process' followed. I'll explain.........

 

1. The frames must be assembled dead square and true using a jig. The bearings should be inserted at this stage, with any inner axle bearings being soldered in place the tiniest bit higher than the outer ones (I'm speaking of rigid frames here). The trick is to broach out the inner bearing holes just a bit more than a snug fit, meaning one can raise the top hats slightly higher up than the rest when soldering in place. Tap any holes in spacers to take the shouldered screws for retaining bogies/ponies. If it's a flat spacer, solder an 8BA nut to its top and tap that to remove excess solder. Cut off any excess bearing material from the inside of the top-hats on the driven bearings, filing them flush with the inside of the frames - for OO; for EM, often just a small amount needs removing. 

 

2. The drivers should be fitted to their axles (Markits in my case) and fitted to the frames, but only after I've passed a one eight taper reamer through all the bearings. If the frames are true, then all the outer wheels should sit fair and square on a piece of mirror glass. If not (and this heresy to a real engineer!), twist the frames ever so slightly until all is true. 

 

3. Take the drivers off again, then solder the brake cross rods in place. Check that the drivers' flanges don't catch on those rods. Crankpins should be fixed at this stage and held in place with Loctite.

 

4. Fix the pick-up pads securely in place with epoxy. 

 

5. Assemble the motor/gearbox (or use a ready-made type) so that everything is absolutely sweet. Prior to fitting the motor, check that it runs perfectly; it's incredibly frustrating when trying to find a tight spot, to learn that the motor itself is the cause! Place the driven axle through the gearbox bushes and tighten up the gearwheel's grubscrew (Markits now produce a slotted axle). Check that the driven wheels rotate freely, then check again with the whole assembly in its place in the frames (this requires drivers being put on to and taken off their axles several times - a poor idea with friction-fit wheels. Indeed, I know of some P4 modellers who'll set up their frames with Markits wheels and axles, before finally fitting the drivers of their choice). Oil nothing at this stage. 

 

6. Paint any areas of the frames behind the drivers (I use a sable and and enamels), allow to dry, then re-fit all the drivers for (hopefully) the last time, taking out any excessive sideplay with spacing washers.  

 

7. Fit the pick-ups (.45mm nickel silver wire in my case) and take the wires to the motor brushes. For a live chassis, one side can both act as a return and also a stay to prevent the motor clattering around inside the body under load. 

 

8. Test that all the pick-ups are working. If they are, and the drive is on an inner axle (the centre one on a six-coupled), then that pair of drivers should rotate freely on level track (their being a fag-paper thickness higher that the rest). If the drive is on the rear axle, then the chassis should shuffle along. Oil the axles in their bearings at this stage. 

 

9. If coupling rods are laminated, hold them in place with cocktail sticks while soldering. If they're articulated, I solder them solid. Broach out any bearing holes to give a snug fit on the crankpins. Hold the rods in place with plastic sleeving, and test the running chassis. With luck, it shouldn't bind. If there is binding (it'll be at 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock one one or both sides), broach the appropriate holes until there's no binding. Just letting a chassis, plus rods, roll down an inclined plain is not a good enough test; it must be driven. When all is sweet, solder on the crankpin retaining washers, using a piece of instruction paper as a spacer and a barrier to solder, tearing it away once the job is done. Take off any excess crankpin with cutters and file, remembering to leave those with valve gear attached full-length. Oil at this stage, and run-in the chassis on a rolling road. I'm not a fan of Markits De-Luxe crankpins. 

 

10. Fix any brakes at this stage - brake rodding fitted at an early stages prevents pick-up adjustment. 

 

11. Only make any cylinders/valve gear/motion after the body is completed, though bogies/ponies can be made/fitted at an early stage. 

 

The making of outside valve gear would take at least another ten steps to describe; so, for another day?

 

I'm bound to have forgotten something, but the above are my usual steps. Those who make compensated/sprung chassis, or use the 'American' system of pick-ups may happily disregard anything I've noted.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Tony, 

many thanks for the extremely helpful checklist.  As many of the older photos on the site have disappeared, would it be possible to post some pictures at each stage, particularly the early points, so as we can see how you do it?

many thanks

David