DoverPriory

My experience of Bulleids is restricted to WCs and BoBs. To my 'ear' Tangmere (unmodified) and Braunton (rebuilt) sound quite different. Braunton sounds more 'butch' whereas Tangmere has the characteristic muffled 'chuffing sound coming from inside a tin can'. I am not technically competent to know why. The major change in rebuilding ,we know, was to get rid of the open oil bath gearing that was liable to catching fire.But I presume other changes to boilers etc took place and the modified versions were said to be much more economical. I have never 'met' a MN - they were too heavy for our 'neck of the woods'. But I would presume they sounded more powerful judging by the duties they performed on Southern?

OK I think we are mostly in agreement that the model looks good and performs well but the sound is naff. So what replacement sound do we fit? My recent WC and BoB buys have had Legomanbiffo chips fitted (and d*mned good they are to).So suggestions please. Although well over 70 myself I never came face to face with an unrebuilt MN the only comparison I have in my head is rebuilt BoBs.

Sadly this excellent model is,in my opinion, devalued to an almost farcical level by running along to the accompaniment of 'the mad riveter in an echo chamber' that is supposed to represent the chuff strokes of a steam engine. This really does spoil the model - for me anyway. The only way I have found to soften the noise is to reduce it to the minimum in CV161 and permanently run the Injector loop. I almost feel it would have been better not to fit this TTS sound at all - as clearly do the firms selling the model ex-TTS! If and probably when a decent sound chip becomes available the TTS will be removed from my model.

My H-A Line arrived yesterday. Don't know quite what to make of the package as a whole. The loco itself is superb. BUT that sound,or should I say noise, that is called chuffing! What is it based on? Someone riveting in an echo chamber someone dicing vegetables in said echo chamber? Hornby have sound files for rebuilt MNs so why spoil a good loco like this? I have tried to cut down the volume by putting 1 into CV161 but the riveters efforts are still loud enough to be very annoying. And it is so naff when the loco is rubbing shoulders with DC Kits WC chip-fitted locos and Sutton's class 24s. Little wonder that various companies are stripping TTS out of locos. But what do you replace it with? Having heard some of the Olivias dcc sounds in the past I cant believe that they would be a cost-effective replacement. I have an Olivias sound -fitted class 33: as it accelerates it sounds literally like someone shaking stones in a beer can - just like the West Indies cricket supporters used to do back in the good old days.I would strip out the sound IF I knew of a GOOD replacement. A pity because some of the whistle sounds are not bad at all!! Being a long-wheel based loco it doesn't like my Peco express points. Additionally it will not enter my reverse loop line from the inside 'oval' track it has to go out onto the outer oval and take a 'longer run' at the reverse loop points to gain entry without derailment. Doubtless these issues can be addressed before too long and with some weathering the loco will make a useful addition to my layout.

In reality these were fast and powerful locomotives. As someone who commuted to Brussels on the Boat Train from time to time in the 70's I can tell you there was no 'slow acceleration' out of London Victoria when pulled by a class 71. If there were no track problems they 'went for it'. I wouldn't mind betting that by the time the last coach cleared the platform we were doing well in excess of 45mph. A good job rolling stock and track were well maintained in those BR days because the performance of the Boat Train, Golden Arrow etc needed it. I cant ever remember a Boat Train that was late! But it was a long time ago! Yes of course they had to slow down and crawl along from time to time having to share the busy rail network with masses of commuter trains - no dedicated HST track in those days. So I am looking forward to my blue class 71 arriving tomorrow (hopefully) where it will be joined by a blue Bachmann PMV and Pullman coaches and yes it will be travelling slowly in a mock congested commuter model situation. And hey it will look good to boot. I have put away the Hornby class 73's in the cupboard lest they got an inferiority complex from comparison with DJ Model class 71 detail! I, for one, hope to enjoy and reminisce over the 'good old days'. PS ALL of my DCC locos (steam, diesel and electric) will 'crawl' to a halt and stop at a signal with brake squeal.

Is there ANY news of the Hattons 'Golden Arrow' class 71s? Are they going to be marketed ANY idea of time frame? Or are we obliged to 'create ' our own. Some 'news' of the project would be nice.

Having just read this report I just despair for the hobby. Where is the objectivity here??The last paragraph made me want to weep. This is positively my last contribution to these columns I for one do not wish to be associated with drivel like this. From now on I plough my own furrow.

The DJModels class 71 was about the last loco on my wish list for my southern/south eastern themed layout. Although I could be tempted to buy a class 74 if someone makes a good sound chip for it. Looking at the locos I have available to run on my layout including (Bachmann EMUs,Thumpers, class 47s,Lord Nelson class Heljan class 33s, Hornby BoBs,WCs,(original and modified), Merchant Navys (original and modified) Britannias and Schools class there are three that stand out in terms of quality. For me these are the DJM class 71 (with Legomanbiffo sound), the SLW class 24 (with its own sound chip) and the re-tooled un-modified Hornby BoB/WC (with Legomanbiffo sound chip). I would put the class 24 and the class 71 right at the top and I cant divide them. And the in third place comes the Hornby BoB a fair distance behind. The rest of my fleet are what I would call OK to down right poor in terms of quality. Taking the loco and the sound chip as separate items 5/6 'items' in my list are not from the major suppliers. They are from new entrepreneurs. Long may this continue: these are people who really go for quality and dont just talk about it. Future improvements in this hobby I really do feel is in their hands. Dave's journey with the class 71 hasn't been easy, SLW had problems before the success of their class 24 and the guys at DC kits have worked hard to produce some outstanding sound chips. All I can say is thank you to these 'guys'. I just hope the hobby will support them and drive forward REAL QUALITY in the models on offer in the future.

Totally agree. After my one Hornby class 71 had been in the foam handling cradle a few times the pantograph literally fell apart and had to be superglued back together. After drying out it looked as though the loco had been out in a severe frost. The DJ pantograph is a much tougher and much more resilient animal. The whole DJ model just looks the part with all its detail. Fit a DC kits sound chip into it and you have a model that actually sounds like the real thing. OK it was 50 years plus ago but I can still close my eyes and hear these locos in Marine station now - the 'whirring' compressor and the piercing whistle blast as it departed/arrived. And the DJ model version allows easy fitting (a 5 minute job) as well. True I have had a few running issues with the DJM class 71 that I have been using, but I have to be honest and say that some track adjustments seem to have sorted them out. To quote the modern generation the decision is for me 'a no brainer'. And no I am not in the pay of Charlie and his mate from DC kits or DJ models either. I just appreciate a fine model that is, I think as close to the real thing as an OO scale model can be.

I have only got one of my 4 running so far. Body clips were fine. But there doesn't seem to be as much vertical/ side to side movement of bogie units as you get with for example with Bachmann Bo Bo locos and I dont wonder if this isn't behind the rather demanding nature of my current running 71? I have had to sort out track around some points (on a small but complex layout) so that it is perfectly level. Additionally I have had to impose speed restrictions of not> 6/28 on ordinary Peco Setrack points (no problem with the 4 sets of express points tho). Some of the more knowledgeable on here will probably say this is what happens for real anyway. Did try adjusting b2bs but they just spring back to their factory position. But I continue to be pleased with my 71's. And look forward to getting the rest of the fleet running later in the week. If the gent with the information on how to smooth out the running of locos with the early version of DC KITS sound chip could post on here that would be good. Charlie isn't an easy person to get hold of. Once the initial little niggles with loco and sound chip are sorted these locos are going to be right at the top of the quality league........not bad for just under £250 (loco + chip).

Got my 'package' from KMRC yesterday. Didn't realise that I had actually bought four class 71's. Have to see my GP this afternoon for a routine check up perhaps he will certify me as an idiot at the same time as changing my current medication. Anyway, all I can say is that I am as pleased as punch with these locos. I have 71008 (blue weathered) sound chip fitted and running round my track with weathered goods vans. It so looks the part. OK there are a few niggly problems with the loco but these will soon get sorted, I am sure, when I can give these models a bit more of my time. And yes I did stop and read the instructions before running and act upon them. The DC kits chip really does bring the model to life. Yes, that's got a few little problems as well. Doubtless a call to Leeds next week will sort them out. In essence these class 71's really look the part - on a par with the SLW class 24s I will say. The chip was EASY to fit - even for a complete beginner like me. And 71008 ripping through my stations with its dirty goods wagons in tow and that high-pitched whistle blowing takes me back some sixty years to memories of standing on Folkestone Central station waiting for the train to Dover and school. Thanks Dave for all your hard work on this project. It hasn't been easy- there have been many problems along the way.These models don't cost an arm and a leg to purchase. And I hope many others go on to buy them and make this venture a success. Thanks once again.

No signs of my three yet. But then I was one of the last to receive my first SLW Class 24. Perhaps it's my infamous background catching up with me again. I am supposed to be related to that infamous spy Guy Burgess (or Guy if you can remember that excellent ITV series called Brass starring Timothy West). My paternal grandmother worked in a domestic capacity for the Burgess family and my father was certainly born at the end of a period of service with the Burgess family.

Apropos the correspondence here concerning the performance of these models running around curves of varying radius how interesting it is to note that not one image of an original model MN in the latest edition of 'The Collector' , and I counted six in total, show the accoutrements around the front bogie that the model comes fitted with. Only the box that the models come in show the 'intact' version.

So we DO have to remove/modify the 'paraphernalia' either side of the front bogies to run the MN locos on Grade 2 curves which us small layout folk are forced to have. Thanks to Dunsignalling the situation is now clear to me. I no longer feel a 'leper' with poor quality track as I did when reading some of the earlier correspondece on this topic.

Agree that my first two MNs were initially disappointing performers. I just had to persist with 21 C1 to get it to run. But I think I am getting there. The cure has been: 1. Remove accoutrements adjacent to front bogies (this seems to be the norm in photos shown in this thread, and on Youtube). 2. Adjust b2bs of the front bogies which were widely different. 3. Ensure points/ guard rail areas (ie where derailments occurred) are ABSOLUTELY level. 4. Dont overload the loco (it alters the locos centre of gravity?) 5. Dont run baggage wagons immediately behind the loco. These are notoriously poor runners anyway and only serve to push the loco off course on bends and cause derailments. Run these wagons at the back of the train and they are OK. I agree that these rather expensive locos are not as well produced as perhaps they might have been. I hope to improve the running of my three further with a little ballast at the front of the loco. But these locos are going to be a good addition to my SR themed layout. Sorry but I cant get apoplectic to the point of 'losing it' about minor colour issues. If I did there are people who will respray to instruction? All I am waiting for now is my class 71s from DJ Models - I have the feeling that they WILL be good runners from the word go. Or my faith will be totally shattered.

Thanks for your contribution. Further runnings of my 21C1 model suggest one of the major contributors to the front bogie derailment problem is weight distribution in the loco that compounds with other issues. My layout is only 10 ft x 5 ft. Derailments occur mostly between Peco express points of which I have four sets, one at each corner of the layout. These points aren't easy get absolutely 'true'. But other locos (including several BoBs and a CoCo Westerner) run through these points without issue. I can run the model without derailment at any speed when it is not loaded, add several coaches and it will derail at one set of express points. That suggests that loading pushes back the centre of gravity of the loco making it rock backwards. So far to get the loco to run on my layout without derailment I have: 1. removed the 'bits' on either side of the bogies that restrict their sideways movement (as someone said better to have 99% of a model than 0%] 2. reset the back to backs 3. made the point rest absolutely level by putting some plastic bricking underneath it. 4. cut down loading to 3 Mk 1 coaches (green SR ones of course). when time avails I will do some more test running. Have a roofer coming next week so think I will see if I can get some lead flashing off cuts from him.

Two questions: 1. Have others had front bogie derailments with the new Hornby original streamlined Merchant Navy locos? The accoutrements ( presumably representing steam venting pipes?) restrict front bogie movement on curved track and cause derailment with both locos that I have. I notice in the photo above that these 'bits' a re removed and have had to do this to mine to get the locos to run properly as well as having to adjust the back to back measurements on both sets of wheels. 2. Can anyone recommend a good sound chip for these models. As, I understand, all of the original locos were quickly modified recordings will be like hens teeth.

In the 12 years I have run a model railway layout (I cant really call myself a modeller) I have had several 'brushes' with Hornby in short: To me their class 71 is a continuation of a string of poorly thought out and constructed models a typical example being their class 423 VEPs (thank goodness Bachmann produce numerous EMUs and Thumpers that are robust and reliable). Does anybody still run these Hornby VEPs? And yes I was pleased after struggling to fit a sound chip into one of their 71s after I was told it was impossible. But when that loco then discharges black gunge on the track that affects the running of locos on the layout - that isn't acceptable? As for contacting Hornby - I haven't found that very productive in the past eg I had problems with their air-smoothed Bulleid Pacifics a few years back after the valve gear on a number of them continually 'fell apart' from day 1 of use. Their attitude was that the locos had been fitted with a sound chip, by a major company I might add, who had damaged the models and that in future I was told that must take my 'repairs' elsewhere! My attitude towards Hornby is to buy only that which I REALLY want/ can't get elsewhere. 'Caveat emptor' and 'illegitimi non carbrundum' sum up my attitude to the company. When it arrives the DJM class 71 (which we are promised can be fitted with chip and decent-sized speaker) will, I am sure, be a quality product on a par with the SLW class 24. And this is my final comment on this thread - until the DJM model arrives when I hope I will be allowed to say that the wait was worth it.

I would have thought in this day and age much consideration would have given to the ability to put sound chip and decent speaker into a NEW model. You can just about, after some modification to this models very cramped interior put in a cube speaker and sound chip. Having read Dave's breakdown of the DJM class 71 a major consideration in the design of his model was the ease of putting in a sound system. The only marketing I have done is to watch The Apprentice and I'm damn sure that Lord Sugar would have fired the Hornby crewe if he had seen their efforts!! But the proof of the pudding is in the eating! I think these columns will see some very interesting comparisons and comments next year!!?? I for one do not want another Hornby class 71 even if they get discounted down to a tenner each!

I hardly think removing the pantograph parts on the inside of this poorly designed model will cause the motor to malfunction - or, perhaps, I am missing something here??

Because to fit sound into it I had to perform major surgery which would invalidate the warranty!

Absolutely right. There are much more important things in life than a minor delay like this. I sat yesterday afternoon in the clinic waiting room of a major hospital. You didn't need to be medically qualified to know there were some really sick people in there. I did buy one Hornby class 71 as a look see. Believe me the DJM version has got to be better than this. I suspect it's motor is slowly disintegrating (when I've got some spare time I will take it apart) and it's leaving black gunge on the track - it has been retired. I have ordered 3 DJM versions and will not be cancelling my order.

I haven't seen the DJM 71 close at hand or in use. But as someone who will admit to buying a Hornby 71 I already suspect that SGP's comment that there is 'little to choose between the two' will prove way off the mark!! As someone who enjoys DCC sound I can confirm that fitting a chip to the Hornby model isn't impossible (as Hattons told a mate of mine) but it isn't easy! Simply because, I suspect, little planning went into the Hornby model unlike upcoming the alternative. The delays to the DJM model,dare I say,is probably because its creator is a perfectionist. Additionally my sole Hornby 71 still puts out a lot of black 'gunge' on the track and has already been retired. OK we've had to wait a few months but hopefully soon we will have a superb model to grace our tracks.

Good news.......have bought my sound chips in readiness.

I tried again with another Bulleid pacific to fit the brake rods to the locomotive........again I found it totally impossible. So I have had rods and 'holes' scanned and measured. The result.............it would be impossible to fit the front and rear lugs on each rod because the lugs are 15% too big to fit into the holes!! As for the central pair the lugs and holes are almost exactly the same diameter! Not very helpful.........perhaps some one from Hornby would like to comment?