Down_Under

5 hours ago, Daddyman said:

In that view the tank wrapper looks like it's been very evenly rolled, with a good straight line along the sharp lower corners - something few modellers get right. Have you tried the Sharpie test? - cover the whole wrapper and see if the light reflection is even. You can always rub a spot with sandpaper if there's the odd problem, especially where wrappers tend to ramp up where they are soldered at the front and rear. 

Thanks! I surprised myself! Large part due to the excellent design and etches by Mike I would say. There are relieving lines etched into the underside for the sharper radius corners at the bottom of the tank. 

It sits nice and level on a flat piece of glass. I haven’t tried the sharpie test.

J

Saddle Tank Sunday

The build continued this week putting all the major components together, starting with rolling and assembling the tank…

…..And then the smokebox. Word of caution - check your prototype! Hunslet for what ever reason like to mix and match welded and riveted construction. HE 29/1645 “The BURSAR” has a welded saddle tank, but riveted smokebox - which it retained all through its life. However, HE 29/1648 part of the original batch was built with a riveted tank and welded smokebox. I’d love to know the reason for this. Was it down to capacity within the works? Later in life they often spotted patches welded on. 

Rivets can be pushed out on the smokebox front, however I’ll need to add the ones on the sides from archers, or blobs of resin. The half etch wrapper is easily wrapped around the former. 

Lastly the boiler, which I’ve split to enable getting to the motor easier. This meant scratch building a firebox and ‘modesty’ sheets either side. I’ve tried to capture the curved nature of the firebox sides by filing a radius to the 15 thou scrap etch fret used to make the ‘box. The sides were cut from 5 thou sheet. Boiler bands to be added from 2 thou sheet, but cutting 1mm wide strips with a scalpel.

Thats all for now. All the big bits complete, adding detail and valve gear. 

James 

44 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

You’re using the wrong flux, stick to phosphoric acid, fluxes everything you’ll ever solder and it’s rustproofer for steel. It sounds like you’ve got Bakers fluid (or some other name) - I won’t have it in the workshop.

I've been using LaCo Flux for the brass and the DCC Sapphire flux for N/S.  

I have some rustbuster which I'm trying to figure out how to water it down to the correct-ish concentration. 

Sunday Update 

Thanks for all the likes and comments, info and support. I’m going to deviate a little from the recommend build sequence to make sure that there is space for the motor to move the 1-2mm required for the compensation arrangement fitted to the middle and trailing axles. I also wanted to build the body so that it separates such that the lower boiler is attached to the frames and the saddle, attached to the cab and smokebox.

I’ve learnt that handling Gibson wheels with hand covered in flux results in rusty wheels, so I’m going to leave them off and assemble the other major components. 

Crossheads

Building the crossheads involves laminating four layers and a piston rod (1mm N/S) together to form a working cross head. Fiddly, to begin with but once I’d figured out an assembly sequence it all came together quite nicely. 

After a couple of attempts, the sequence used was to laminate 1 middle section to an outer on a home made jig (a la’ Rice). I’ve sinced by informed that phenolic material makes a better base and doesn’t burn. Though I did find that once I’d burnt a part into the wood it acted as a third hand to steady the parts.

I modified the cross head by snipping of the “T” on the etch and using 0.5mm thick washer made from 1.5mm OD tube to represent the joint between the crosshead and the piston rod. 

Jig used to hold the parts in alignment while solder applied, old drill bit used as a fifth pair of hands.

The finished product, piston rod still to be trimmed to length. With the cross heads in situ, it answer my question on how to ensure the slide bars are held in alignment / position while solder and iron is introduced to the equation. 

There is something quit satisfying about turning something from 2D into 3D. Time for a cuppa and break from the valve gear. 
 

Cab

This was generally assembled as recommend. However, being a test etch, there was a slight error in that the cab back for the chosen prototype - it  was missing the distinctive second roof vents and rivet detail. Having a spare etch handy, it was decided to ‘cut and shut’ the spare front with the cab back. The join was measured off the drawings and the cut aligns with the open cab back join. The resulting gap was filled with solder and filed/ sanded smooth. 

Cab constructed, with a couple a shelf queens looking on. Pretty happy with how that turned out, capturing the bolt on cab back of the original - see further up the thread for examples. 

Next steps

Well figure out how to split the boiler - saddle tank. I’ve rolled boiler bottom from 10 thou sheet - keeping the original to measure and check against. One thing I need to figure out is the diameter as its not to clear from the drawing. 

Lastly, does anyone have pictures of inside Brookes No1? Trying to figure out cab layout. 

Time for another cuppa. 

James 

19 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The offering of parts as separates was only temporary and dependant on stock anyway. Always said so on the website. This is from the GWR page.

 

Maybe they are just coming to the end of the spare stock?

 

 

 

 

 

Alternatives? Depends on what you are looking for.

 

Try Alan Gibson, 247 Developments, Markits, PDK, Comet/Wizard, SE Finecast, Nucast Partners, etc. for starters.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Thanks Jason, 

For the LNER castings - PDK would be a good start. 247 and Phoenix are not great fans of overseas orders from my experience. The etched wheels and other bits I found useful to upgrade kits and scratch aids. Am hopeful that it will reappear in the future.  

James 

5 hours ago, Fen End Pit said:

Given I am in the process of finishing the design of an EasiChas for an Ivatt class 2, a complete kit for an ex-GER J17, producing boilers for the reintroduced J94 and detail parts for a Coronation all for Brassmasters I can say I am not expecting them to go away anytime soon.

 

Always amazes me the speculative dross the internet kicks out.

 

David

Sounds good David - looking forward to what you turn out for the J94 and some of the eastern stuff you are working on. 

Latest update from Brassmasters:

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/accessories.htm

They have withdrawn their supply of etched and cast whitemetal/brass detailing parts, along with coupling rods. Pick up what you can from exhibitions. Bit of a blow for overseas customers. Found it a handy range of detail components with many uses.  Any suggestions as to where to pick up items like this now? 

Re-introduction of the Austerity / J94 looks to be on the cards and is welcomed.  

James 

3 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I use an old-fashioned record stylus - basically a steel rod about 1mm diameter with a pointed end - and twisting motion (as if I was drilling) rather than a punching or pressing motion. If you can't get hold of a stylus (mine was kindly given to me by @micknich2003) you may be able to get the same effect with a drill and stop before you break through. 

Thanks  - I’ve picked some up on eBay. Not sure I need a 100, but for 7 quid, enough for a lifetime.

2 hours ago, Chen Melling said:

 

It's great to hear that M. Edge is getting another version of the Hunslet 14in engines done, thanks for that!

 

I just want to suggest a slight correction - according to Don Townsley, the HHWD o/c locos were actually lined in black and blue, not straw, though yellow replaced blue in the following orders - see here:

This seems to agree with the available photos of the locos in Haifa, e.g. this o/c example with High Commissioner Chancellor in 1930 (photo by Zvi Oron-Orushkes, CZA collection):

 

A couple of other angles here (from the same Matson Collection photo presented earlier in the thread):

 

And here:

 

Now, by way of comparison, an i/c example, which appears to sport the same livery, but this may be one of the original couple, which presumably had blue edging:

 

And finally i/c HHWD No. 1, probably when new (from the CZA collection):

@Chen Melling thank  you very much for the photos and update on the livery - i had been searching for photos of the open back cab in detail! I'll amend the information in the first post. 

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

I'll be watching this with interest. I would like to build 1643 if this becomes available as a kit, and if I have any chance of building that valve gear.

This is my first time with Walchaerts (!) - Mike informs me it is designed to be put together in mid gear - less moving parts which is a plus. 

The current state of play. Footplate, cylinder assembly, chassis, motion bracket, connecting / coupling rods and slide bars. 

First up the chassis, which was built mostly as per the instructions - using the swing beam/knife edge for the front axle and compensation beam for the middle and rear axle. Half etch lines ensure the spacers slot locate positively and squarely.  I say mostly, as I have differed slightly by using 1mm rod as the pivots and small 1.5m tube to secure rather than pins. We’ll see why shortly. 

I’ve also decided to making the cylinder assembly removable -  using spare EM frame spacer (yes i soldered it off center - doh) soldered between the front and back cylinder etchings. The original spacer was split, with half soldered below so that the whole cylinder assembly is sandwiched between the footplate and modified spacer. It’s not pretty - but it works. 

I sleeved the cylinder piston and valve spindles with micro-tubing. 1.5mm OD  (1.0mm ID) tube was used for the piston and 1.0mm OD (0.6mm ID) used for the piston spindle. I also made scratch built the valve guide using a 14BA washer and 1.5mm tube. The motion bracket is made up from 3 lamination and locates via a a slot in the frames. Similarly the slide bars are made up from 3 laminations and filed to shape - I’ve yet to solder these up until I figure out assembly order. 

The connecting / coupleing rods are a double laminate. I’ve split on the center crankpin. Most of the knuckle will be all but invisible behind the connection rod cotter. Looking at photos to the prototype, the front crankpin was countersunk to clear the motion - something that I’ll have to replicate as these frames are at scale width in P4. 

Close ups are always cruel - but here you go.  I need to figure out a way of pushing through the half rivets in the cylinder end caps - the GW press deforms them - any ideas? 

That’s all for now. More to follow 

James 

Hi Gordon,

Thanks for the interest. I should perhaps have said earlier that this is 4mm / ft. 

8 hours ago, Gordon A said:

1) Are there half etched lines around the axle holes to facilitate fitting of High Level horn guides and blocks?

Yes, there are half etch guides. I have drawn up the CSB plot (which I can send through). It’s pretty tight in there with some clashing with the brake pivots / motion bracket. Being a test etch, I thought I should build it as designed first time round. I have another etch, which I’ll have a go at CSB’ing. 

8 hours ago, Gordon A said:

2) An extra layer for the coupling rods so they can be built with a knuckle joint?

It is a double layer etch. I have pivoted on the crank pin. With the connecting rod in the way it will be barely visible. I would have preferred to joint as per the prototype, but this works. 

A very cruel cropped close up of the rods - Gibson crankpin bushes fitted, but yet to be filed back. 

8 hours ago, Gordon A said:

3) What gauges is the kit designed for?

It is designed for 00 / EM / P4. I’m building this in P4, but have test built a 00 chassis to make sure that it all fits as it should (it does). As with many of Mikes kits, the frames and frame spacers for P4 are pretty much scale width - a shade over 16.4mm. 

I’ll post some further photos up this afternoon of the build thus far. 

James’s 

HE 1645 of 1929 - HHWD 5 / “THE BURSAR”

HE 1645/29 was delivered to Crown Agents in 1929 for the Haifia Port Construction, where it worked until it was repatriated to the UK in 1938, subsequently rebuilt by Hunslet and sold to Oxford Ironstone Company (OIC) c.1940 during a ramp up of activities during WW2. 

During the rebuild the locomotive retained its tropical roof, however it gained a non-standard cab back. The locomotive was fitted with knuckle coupling in addition to conventional draw gear for working with side tipping dumpcars (dump cars available from RT Models), similar to the other OIC locos of that era. The dumpcars were used to transport ore from the quarry to the crusher at Wroxton. As noted above there are not many images of the locomotive in steam and it is difficult to say whether the locomotive spent more time on the quarry system or mainline. 

HE 1645/29 The BURSAR 9 April 1958. Photo from Don Townsley - Hunslet Locomotive Works p.88. Annotated to show the variations and modifications 

Tropical Cab

The BURSAR was fitted with a tropical open cab from new, retaining this even after rebuild in 1938. The tropical cab had an out and inner roof with a gap and vents in between to reduce the amount of heat radiated from direct sunlight - someone thought it might be warm down in Oxfordshire.  

Livery

The following links of The BURSAR in 1964 show the remnants of the original dark grey/black colour scheme (grey all over, with black tank top and roof), off white underside of boiler and hints of vermillion wheels, rods and buffer beam and straw lining 

Photo Credit - Trains and Travel (https://www.flickr.com/people/trains-travel/)

Photo Credit Geoff Plumb

The Test Kit / The Model

The kit makes the most of the common parts between the IC and OC locomotives, such as enclosed cab, saddle tank, coupling rods,  compensation system, resin castings and, with additional parts - open cab, buffer beams, smokebox, longer frames and footplate, outside cylinders, valve gear etch all fitting-ish on a A4 sheet. 

Being based on the 14” IC kit, construction follows a similar process.

This being a test etch, it was decided to build as designed - with compensation on the rear coupled two axles, and swinging arms on the front. The motor will drive the rear coupled axle with the motor mounted horizontally in the boiler. 

First up was to mark up the drawing with the part numbers. Credit here goes to @k22009 I found this a great way to help conceptualise how the parts go together. 

The Extras

Mike provided me with a set of resin castings (smokebox door, chimney, dome, sand boxes and backhead) from the 14” IC kit which have been supplemented with

• RT models coupling pockets,
• Sergent Engineering Short shank Knuckle Couplers (HO - but scale OK in 4mm/ft). 
• Markets handrail knobs, wire and rod
• Alan Gibson 3” 3.5” wheels (4839G) + crankpins
• High Level 80:1 LoadHauler Compact and 1219C motor. 
• CSB Parts (future build)

Cheers

James 

2 hours ago, rope runner said:

Watching with interest!

 

HE1645/29 was quite camera-shy when in operation but heavily photographed once sat outside the shed at Wroxton. Photographs I have here would suggest that it was one of the last steamers at OIC to be scrapped. The names THE BURSAR and TREASURER are references to Oxford University, though I'm sure most folk (including James) will already know that!

 

TREASURER was later sold and could be found at Corby Steelworks for a time complete with original nameplates but additionally plated as their No.10. 

 

Paul A. 

Thanks Paul. Yes, there do not seem to be many photos of HE 1645 working - that said if anyone know of any please get in touch, same goes with any of the the other locos - I have built a register of the locos, detailing variations and histories which I'll post up in subsequent posts. 

Hunslet 14” 0-6-0 OC Saddle Tank Locomotives - The Prototype(s)

I've had an interested in these locomotives through my area of interest - Ironstone Quarrying in the UK, in particular HE 1645/29 "The BURSAR" out of use at Wroxton.   The odd combination of Walschearts valve gear, tropical cab roof, knuckle couplings seemed like an odd combination and hinted at a previous life - this drove the research and subsequent commissioning of etches from Mike Edge. This initial post is a summary of that research, subsequent posts will be of the build. 

OIC “The BURSAR” HE 1645/29 out of use at Wroxton. Note tropical cab, no standard cab back, remnants of dark grey livery. Original Image from @rope runner through a previous thread. 

The research here is based on a couple of sub threads on Hunslet locomotives located here and here, conversations with Mike Edge, extracts from Hunslet works book and The Hunslet Engine Works – Don H. Townsley – Plateway Press (ISBN 1 871980 38 0).

Along with the “classic” Hunslet inside cylinder 0-6-0 saddle tank classes (12, 14, 16, 15, 16 and 18”) that could be found across all aspects of industry, Hunslet also produced the 14, 15 and 16” classes with outside cylinders and Walschaerts valve gear. 

Outwardly they appearance is similar to that of the inside cylinder locomotives – 14 x 20” cylinders, 9’ coupled wheelbase, 3’ 3.5” diameter wheels -  but with longer frames and smokebox, and of course outside cylinders and valve gear. 

Although not numerous (12), they had a long-ish (40 year), international and varied lifestyle, often returning to Hunslet Works for rebuild, re-selling or hire on short term contracts. After their return, then could be found working at port / dock construction, collieries, cement works, ordnance factories, sugar factories or shunting for the War Department. 

In addition to the twelve standard gauge 14” OC locomotives a single example of the standard gauge 15” OC (HE 1446/29 - “THE TREASURER” – Oxfordshire Ironstone Company  and two standard gauge 16” OC (HE 1637/29 - “BIRCH COPPICE” – Birch Coppice Colliery and HE 1791/35 – Tir John No.1 Tir John Power Station) locomotives were also produced. I have a test etch of the latter from Mike Edge in the to do pile and the 15” has been drawn up, but not committed to brass yet. 

Getting back to the 14” locomotives - although these were “standard” designs, they, like all industrials were made to suit customers requirements. The 14” OC locos are no exception, and this can be traced back to the original order by Crown Agents, Palestine. The OC Walschearts valve gear locomotives were apparently favoured by overseas customers for ease of maintenance. 

A total of 12 of the 14” OC locomotives were ordered by Crown Agents in 1929, for port construction at Haifa, Palestine. These locomotives were ordered with:

• Tropical roofs
• Open cab backs 
• Standard depth buffer beam and sprung buffers
• Painted battleship grey, with dark grey tank tops, red motion, wheels and buffer beams, inside frames vermillion,  a black roofs and smokebox, initial locos lined in black with thin blue line either side  (1643-46), later locos (IC) thick black line with thin straw \ gold lining. 

[]

HE 1646/29 "HHWD No.6 "at work in Palestine

However, it appears that only 4 (HE 1643-6) of the 12 were able to be supplied in time, the remaining numbers being made up by 14” IC locos (which were also fitted with tropical, open cabs). 

The remaining 8 locomotives; HE 1647/48 (2) and HE 1685-90 (6) were completed and subsequently sold to John Mowlem for the construction of the Southern Railways graving dock at Southampton. Interestingly, these locomotives were supplied with:

• “Standard” cabs, with larger bunker, no tropical roof
• Painted in standard Hunslet locomotive green
• Deep buffer beams and dumb buffers fitted

Unidentified 14”OC Locomotive at work at work for J Mowlem during the construction of the Graving Dock, Southampton. May 1932. Credit - Mirrorpix/Alamy  https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-at-wotk-on-the-new-graving-dock-at-southampton1310may-19321310alf-20403039.html

After initial contracts had expired Crown Agents sold 3/4 back to Hunslet, whom rebuilt and on-sold or hired the locomotive to industry. John Mowlem disposed of the locomotives to Nuttall & Sons between 1933-35 whom used the locomotives on a variety of construction projects. Nuttall & Sons disposed of all but two in 1948. 

EDIT - side note. Mowlem was a large construction company that built large projects like Battersea Power Station, Nuclear Power stations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowlem). Nuttall&Sons was founded on the construction of the Manchester Ship Canal and built projects like the Liver Buildings, Queensway Tunnel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAM_Nuttall)

Some locomotive had very varied lives. I’ve highlighted a few below, the reminder are summarised in this table 14 inch Hunslet Works List.pdf If you have any further information, please let me know and I'll update it.

Supplied to Crown Agents, Palestine (1929)

1643/1929 (HHWD 3)

• 1938 – Returned and rebuilt by Hunslet. New boiler, full standard cab fitted. Sold to W.D.Bramley as “BRAMLEY No.4”
• 1947 – Returned to Hunslet – hired to North Gawber Colliery, Ministry of Fuel and Power at Darton. 
• 1952/3 Rebuilt and sold to Peruvian Corporation. 

1644/1929 (HHWD 4) 

• 1938 - Returned and rebuilt by Hunslet. Sold to W.D Bramley as "BRAMLEY No.6" 

1645/1929 (HHWD 5)

• 1938 Returned to Hunslet
• 1946 Rebuilt and sent to Oxford Ironstone Company (UK) latterly,  “THE BURSAR”. Retained tropical cab. Fitted with knuckle coupler. 

Supplied to John Mowlem, (1931)

1685/1931 – “NUTTALL” - J Mowlem

• sold to Nuttall & Sons
• Disposed 1948 to NCB (Walsall Woods, Coppice Colliery, Chasetown) 

“NUTTALL” HE 1685/31  taken by F.A Blancowe 30/5/61 while working for the NCB

1686/1931 –“MOWLEM” -  J Mowlem

• sold to Nuttall & Sons. 
• Disposed 1948 to Hunslet
• British Sugar
• 1959 (?) sold to Portland Cement (Thurrock)

HE 1686/31 “MOWLEM” at Thurrock Cement works 1964 - out of use

1690/1931 – “CUNDARDER” - J Mowlem

• 1935 - Disposed 1935 to Nuttal & Sons for construction of the Wallasey Promenade 1938. 
• 1939  onwards - used as a hire locomotive by Nuttall and Sons– see full list here
• 1957 - sold to Harbury Cement Works
• Preserved 

HE 1690/31 “CUNARDER” out of service at John Mowlem Yard. Note deep buffer beams and evidence of dumb buffers

Earlier this year I commissioned @Michael Edge to produce a 4mm scale etch, to model my chosen prototype “THE BURSAR”. That said the etches also contain the parts to make the other variations of the loco. This thread will outline the build of this test etch. If you like what you see, please get in touch with Mike and express your interest to turn this into a full kit. 

That’s enough from me, next post to include information on my prototype and the test build.

Cheers,

James 

On 24/03/2023 at 19:11, Michael Edge said:

Not yet, we'll order this from PPD now.

Thanks for the update. Keen for a pair.

J

On 24/04/2022 at 22:22, Michael Edge said:

Another development on the way now, replacement compensated frame for the Heljan class 14.

The frame goes together in much the same way as our kits but this one is very narrow with springs and axleboxes outside. Etched layered overlays for the outside of the gearbox and the springs/axkleboxes. This one is built for P4 with Gibson wheels and uses all the layers, for more sideplay on the centre axle the middle axleboxes can be assembled with fewer layers. There is a crack off line on the frame spacers for EM frames. The production vesion may well include moulded full thickness axleboxes as well. Etched cranks match the Gibson wheels for anyone who doesn't want to use plastic cranks.

From underneath the compensating beams can be seen with added wire straps to prevent them from flexing inwards. The frames are also marked for High Level hornblocks. Drive would be on the leading axle, trailing axle rocks under the knife edge. The frame itself, even at P4 width is actually narrow enough to fit 00 gauge wheels. The Gibson wheels are tapped 12BA and fitted with plain Romford crankpins, as is my usual practice.

Completed frame on the test track, the rods are overlapped on the crankpins to provide articulation.

The other side, brakes and guard irons stand out a long way from the frame plates. The brake cross beams are two layers of etch sandwiching wire pull rods.

The finished frame in the Heljan platform and buffer beams. The wheels supplied are from two batches, the grey ones are presumably much older and have a thicker boss on the backs, the axles supplied with them are a bit short as well. I can't check the fixing screws as I don't have the rest of the loco here but almost everything else fitted perfectly.

 

 

Hi Mike, any update on when this might be available ? 

Hi All, 

I noticed this "newish" solder station from Antex. 

https://www.antex.co.uk/products/soldering-stations/760rwk/

Wondered if anyone had used one in the modelling world? whether the hot air function had any benefits. 

Also like to say that I am not in the process of purchasing one (was getting some new tips for a 660A).  More curious of any real work experience 

J

@rope runner this Avonside would be correct for JOAN from the OIC stable from the looks of it? 

Thanks for the update Justin, these kits look great. 

I'm liking the mixed media and approach. Are you looking to introduce the anchor mount wagons at all into general circulation for purchase? 

James

Paul, 

Loco looks great! Nice Summary too. 

Mike has done a great job on the etches. 

I'd agree - I'd call them powerful and purposeful :) 

If someone pesters me enough I'll look at writing up the summary of the research for those that are interested. Quite a few variations for such a small class of locomotives. Thankfully, being quite late to the scene they are relatively well photographed. 

J

What a blow! 

As a overseas customer, one stop shop for all those bits. I cant think of anyone else online, and so easy to order from.  Not sure where to look for all the fine angle, tube and Avonside jigs. The later really moved my model building, so thank you! 

Derek, condolences and best of luck with future endeavours. 

James

Appears bottom line of rivets is off and this was used as a datum to scale bodyside features 

So a friends Fell came across the workbench. 

I thought I'd compare with my half built JE example. I notice a few dimensional differences between the two, not insignificant (in addition to the missing auxiliary exhaust) . If you compare to a photo - then the JE example is spot on 

1. nose grilles/doors are two short

2. door window too deep (or teardrop too shallow?)

3. bottom line of rivets too high

4. model is sided 

5. door too short

6. bodyside grille (lower all reference bottom rivet line) are all to shallow in height - compare to photo - KR = rectangles v real life = square 

6. bogie frames lack detail (recommend comet 6'6"upgrade) 

in BR green the lining is off (to counteract the compromised door / grille ?) compared with the image at Derby :

https://www.anistr.com/-/galleries/railway-images-galleries/photos-of-british-railways-1948-1968/photos-of-br-diesel-locomotives/br-experimental-diesel-locos/-/medias/498f1824-d381-4436-b3e6-56d1b0b6b317-diesel-loco-brush-d0280-loughborough

Overall length and depth OK 

J