Chas Levin

Aha: that sounds like a challenge! In due course, I hope to be among the first to offer feedback on them...

Very nice work Jesse . May I please ask, what material have you used for the folded tarpaulins / wagon sheets?

Thanks Jol; I had the main Instructions sheet (John supplies it with the parts) but the second sheet with the etch I didn't have and the notes on which parts are which give added clarity. I've also now edited and re-posted my chart to include LRM's 14BA bolt option for adjustable mounting - I don't know how I came to omit that option, because the ability to adjust springing in that way was one of the things I had particularly looked for in the different systems! More haste, less speed. I'm surprised that you say the adjustable mounts would probably be omitted. I know I haven't yet actually tried building using them yet, but the idea of continuous adjustment using bolts seems to me to be a very useful option (which is why I'd particularly noticed it: Kean/Maygib, Gibson and LRM are the only systems that offer it). What happens if you need to adjust one axle relative to the others - in order to achieve a level footplate - to a height that lies between two fixed mounting points? I'll have a look at interchanging the LRM and HLK hornblocks: by my measurement (using good quality digital calipers but still of course subject to the usual human error) the grooves in the HLK are fractionally narrower (0.1mm) than the LRM, which I thought might make for a slightly tighter movement. As this loco's going to be simple compensation only, I'm probably going to keep both the LRM and HLK systems in reserve for when I build a CSB one, where I can properly try out the whole system; it seems counter-intuitive to use only parts of them as a first attempt. So, I'm currently making up and trying out the MJT FlexiChas etched guides, of which more later...

I'm finally at the hornblock stage . In the course of getting here, I became very curious about the different systems on offer and how they compared: which manufacturers' bearings have flared grooves (which I learnt was an interesting part of Mike Sharman's original FlexiChas spec); which ones allow dropping out of the bearings and axles; can parts be interchanged between different manufacturers - bearings with flared grooves used with another maker's hornguides, for instance? It got quite confusing, trying to juggle all the data in my head, so I made an Excel sheet, to be able to see at a glance which makers' systems include a particular feature. I'm not sure if it will be of use to anyone else, but in case it is I thought I'd post it here: And here's the original Excel sheet, in case anyone wants to use it themselves and add or edit things: Hornblock comparison 20201101-2.xlsx The only ones I haven't yet obtained and measured are the High Level Kits Miniblox, though if anyone knows of any other types I've left out please let me know. They all have individual points of interest and my intention is to build at least one loco using each type... I wonder how long that will take me?

More progress this week on the C12 - here are the frames with the trailing wheels' axle guide openings cleared, compensation beams holes drilled (the rear one is just in case I change my mind about the trailing wheel arrangements, or it may be used for a support to anchor a guide spring for the radial truck) and with the perforations around the rear fixed driving axle hole filled in (I know plenty of people leave these perforations clear but I thought I might as well fill in the gaps for added solidity!): A couple of days later and the frames are up: I've decided to go with the radial truck for the trailing wheels. I know it's totally un-prototypical but it'll be invisible unless you look underneath and with the taper I've introduced to the rear frame ends it allows some pretty tight curves. You can also see the radial truck guides in place at the rear, very handy little LRM etch - here's a pic of the etch as it comes, next one made up with test wheels inserted: I based my calculations of the taper required on Jol Wilkinson's discussions on another thread about using the LRM radial truck on an LNWR 2-4-2 'Mansion House', along with running some tests with the frames taped and blu-tak'd together - a delicate operation but achievable with care. Like the radial truck, while the taper is un-prototypical it won't be visible in normal running. I went for a double bend, in for the track guides (to 1.2mm at their C/L) and then out again, returning to the line of the main part of the frames, to minimise the visible narrowing when the loco is viewed from the rear, with the rear frame spacer filed down to fit the new profile. Finally, the frames with the horn guide opening removed on one side only (the bearing you see on the left is the opposite one, seen through the cleared opening of the frame nearest the camera) and a view of it on the jig, showing how this order of assembly will allow the first flexichas bearing to be fixed accurately:

Underframe details in place: The instructions suggest making sure the step supports are glued at the back as the steps are fragile (as it's noted they were on the prototype) but they don't seem that much more fragile to me than similar etched brass coach steps, though I realise these would break where brass will just bend (at any rate once or twice...). I didn't spend time worrying about the striations and remains of pips under the steps, as they won't be seen in running use.

Haha - never fear, not sadistic! On the contrary, interesting to see. Perhaps it was his perfectly understandable and justified pride in a reputation for producing beautifully finished products that prevented him from supplying it more widely in a less than perfect condition. As a substitute, I got an etched kit from Mousa of the M&GNJR Engineer's Saloon, currently in the to-build pile...

When I was first in touch with Danny of D&S a while back I asked about this kit and he told me he wouldn't be able to reissue it because of a technical reason, damage to the etches or patterns, I think - it was a while ago. I saw a couple come up on ebay a long time ago - several years, passed on them and now regret it!

As a few others have replied since you posted this, RTR folks do sometimes provide lamps. The last RTR loco I bought was Bachmann's J72 and it came with with some rather nice lamps that had a neatly done grip / groove in the back and fitted the brackets very well. But I agree that it's odd for that to be the exception rather than the rule...

What a lovely sight!

Interested Tony to read where you say: "I've had gummed-up Portescaps brought to me at shows. I've always been able to release them by moving the driving wheels by hand (with some force!) and then let the motor do the rest using crocodile clips. It would appear to be the fault of the original red lubricant. Some proper oil after that and they were fine..........." Another area I work in is restoring reel to reel tape machines. Those made by Teac (including those made for the European market under the Tascam brand) show the same problem with alarming frequency. The mechanism that moves the pinch rollers into position for playback was greased at the factory with a type of very viscous lubricant, a brown grease, that aged very badly, turning a dark treacle-like colour and with a similar consistency, often to the point of near solidity, rather like old fashioned toffee. By that stage, even the type of solution you've had success with on Portescaps doesn't work and the only solution is complete stripping down (frequently difficult and time-consuming because of the glue-like way some parts are almost fused together), laborious removal with suitably powerful solvents and much elbow grease of the gunk, and re-assembly with modern silicone based grease. What's odd is that I've never seen anything similar in other brands of tape machine: surely whoever supplied the grease to Teac must have had other customers? As far as I know they were ever a big enough concern to be manufacturing their own lubricants in-house. Has anyone ever seen anything similar on other makes of model motor? Oh, and in answer to your questions as to whether some of those A1s were worth the £100 or so, I'd say 'yes, definitely'!

Roof 'furniture' added to the GNR D129: The sprue only had 12 vents but this coach has 14 (I'm guessing it's a standard sprue for different types of Howlden coach) so I used some MJT ones I had in stock. The bogies are progressing too, photos in due course. I've also been looking at the fixing between the chassis / floorpan and the body, which is done as the kit comes by one central fixing screw; I have to admit I'm not entirely happy with this as I've never used this kind of resin before and I can't help wondering about possible flexing or distortion with age (again with the belt and braces attitude, I know ) so I'm going to look at making it possible to use a pair of screws at each end. That will need provision of some plastic blocks under some seats as the body only has filled in under-seat voids at the centre... Whilst elsewhere, learning about siting of compensation beam pivots for the C12, proportional loading of axles and so forth, continues... Edited October 24th: ha - always check all the kit contents before making substitutions! Whilst assembling the parts for the underframe, I found a separate printed plastic piece with three extra roof vents in a small bag with other unrelated parts - different material but identical profile. Never mind - the ones I used are to my eye a little closer to those shown in Nick Campling's Historic Carriage Drawings Vol 1, being rather smaller in relation to the other roof fittings, so no harm done .

Great to see this loco being rescued Mick - always sorry to see things binned but fully appreciate how much time and effort will go into this! I look forward to seeing it rise, phoenix-like.

So... I've been devoting some thought to frame and chassis matters, as I prepare to step off the quayside of Rigid Frames and strike out into the sometimes choppy Compensation Seas (sorry). I've been wrestling with the best order in which to do things, so as to take maximum advantage of opportunities for accurate alignment. Here are the frames as supplied (after detaching from the fret and a bit of cleaning up): I know I'm far from being the first to consider these things and others have come up with their own solutions, but figuring things out for yourself is a good way to learn, so... With the axle holes intended for rigid construction still in place, you have the means - using a jig - to achieve exact alignment of the frames, but the instructions - and most of the build photos I've seen - advise cutting out the hornguide openings before fixing the frames together. Also, it occurred to me that if the hornguide opening were to be removed on one side only, the opposite uncut side's rigid-chassis axle hole could be used to align the first hornguide being fixed in place. That first hornblock could then be temporarily fixed in its centre position (using the neighbouring rear fixed axle hole, as the rear driving axle is to remain fixed) and used to align its opposite hornguide. This would mean that the hornguide openings would have to be removed after the frames had been fixed together, but I think I can manage that, especially because they're 'perforated' already, so I wouldn't be cutting out the whole outline or worrying about extremely accurate straight lines... Clearly the holes for the compensating beam should be drilled with flat frame pieces, and the hornguide openings for the trailing wheels can't assist in frame alignment and are going to have to come out anyway, so they may as well be removed before soldering the frames up. So, my proposed order is: 1. Plan compensation beam pivot bar location and drill holes for it in the frames. 2. Remove trailing wheel hornguide openings. 3. Solder frames and spacers, using existing rigid-chassis axle holes to align in the jig. 4. Cut out the hornguide opening from one side of the front driving axle. 5. Solder in the first hornguide, using the rigid-chassis axle hole on the opposite side to align it. 6. Temporarily fix that first hornblock bearing on its centre line to prevent vertical movement, cut out the opposite hornguide opening and use the first hornblock bearing to align the second one. If anyone can see anything I've missed which may be a problem, please let me know . Going back to the trailing wheels for a minute: I'm awaiting the arrival of an interesting little etch from London Road Models, a radial truck, originally part of some of their LNWR kits but now sold as a separate etch. I'd been scratching my head as to how to provide enough lateral movement to cope with the curves on my layout and I'd already realised I'd have to do something fairly drastic, when I came across discussion of these radial truck etches on Michael Edge's build thread. I realise that using them (or something similar) would be un-prototypical, but I'm hoping that when painted black and quietly tucked away under the rear of the loco, they won't be too obtrusive. The only other solution would be to use a pony truck and I think that might be rather more noticeable. In any case, they look very interesting and if they don't get used for this kit, they're bound to come in handy for another build in the future. For the front bogie, I'm also awaiting another similar item from LRM, their LNWR sprung bogie (which is likewise now available separately). This is more for the purpose of seeing how it's constructed and possibly either using some parts in the C12 bogie, or using them as a pattern to construct something similar to fit the C12, as I've not built anything like that before...

Good point Jonathan; I think of myself as very inexperienced compared to many people on here and on LNER Info so I hadn't considered that anyone would look at what I'd posted for information, but the internet is a true democracy when it comes to the dissemination of information so I should be as careful as the next person! You're right that it's painted - photos of the finished model are one page back, at the start of page seven. I thought it turned out well and looks rather smart (a lot smarter than I thought it was going to look during the build) and it runs very well . Thank you - I too found that thread; there isn't actually a great deal on this vehicle online, but I definitely gained the impression that there was more than one originally built. From memory I think that's right that half a dozen were built, possibly in more than one pattern, but I think it may have been the case that a pair survived longer than the others and were later documented... I used some excellent photos on the Paul Bartlett wagons site for some of the detail that isn't included in the SE Finecast kit and I'm sure some of those photos show a pair.

Hello Jonathan, how are you? Hope you're doing OK and managing to keep occupied... Re. thanking you, 'yes and no' would be my answer I think! Thank you on the one hand as it's always interesting to learn more and because it's nice of you to have let me know, less of a 'thank you' because I agonised over this for some time and hoped I'd put the issue to bed (in my own mind at any rate). The SE Finecast instructions had given oxide for the tanks and everything else black, but I ground to a halt somewhat in trying to decide exactly where the divisions between the two colours should occur (tanks only? Really?) and when I looked online (and spent a long time searching for many similar types of tanker wagon photos and descriptions) I could only find one modelled example in that sort of colour scheme which I'm afraid I felt just didn't look convincing. I think from memory that example did follow what you've given there - solebar and up - but because that was different to the SEF instructions I hesitated, plus I didn't feel it looked quite right... What I also found was a pretty wide variety of colour schemes in models, but from memory all the prototype photos seemed to be basically black (though I realise that may be because nobody was photographing them until very late in their lives, when earlier fancier colour schemes had long since sunk under coats of black paint and dirt). I decided on balance that black was the least likely to be wrong as these wagons certainly were black at some points in their lives, and it also looked fairly 'dignified', if you know what I mean. So... interested to learn, but I'm not going to strip and repaint it .

Excellent work - and I've never seen the articulated version in model form either, well worth doing and I wonder why it hasn't been done more often?

Lovely model . Is it scratchbuilt or is it a kit and if so, whose kit is it please?

Stop Press update: today's post brought this: The missing glazing from the Mousa coach kit and it looks well worth waiting for! I've not seen glazing measured and marked out like this and it will reduce the fitting time a great deal. The lines are scored and the numbers and letters are also 'etched' into the surface, which looks like a useful process .

Hello Jol, just found photos and a scan of the BM instructions for the BM chassis with the swivelling front end, on your RM Web "LNWR 4mm rolling stock for London Road -it's all packed away" thread; I also read through the related posts, including your note that you added a centralising/springing wire to the top of the front frames to keep the front end under control. I was very interested to see how the pivoted front end works (I'd spent some time after you wrote about it above, trying to picture how it could be done) and I'd say it's definitely a very useful tool to have in the box for possible future use. I can quite imagine though why that centralising/springing wire would be needed. I was also very interested to see the near eye-level photo of your PT with the BM chassis, where you can clearly see the split in the frames, which makes very clear how extremely unobtrusive the join actually is! I know you've since moved away from this idea in your subsequent LRM chassis designs, but because I'm running models on a small layout with very tight curves, techniques like this are always of interest...

Excellent thread - thank you for the wonderful research, drawings and information!

I have the general assembly instructions downloaded from Bill's website so I read the same thing. There is a thin dividing line (no pun intended) on some of these reveals between flash and what I take to be inner retaining ridges or raised lines. No problem though; I now have some 0.4mm on the way and found I have 0.25mm in stock, so I shall set the windows aside until later in the build for now and, when the times comes to turn back to them, I'll move between the various thicknesses according to what seems to fit best. Next will be the underframe and roof detail. Also today I've been looking at the LRM C12 frames and drive train, while I plan the compensation arrangements. I've pretty much decided to go with rigid rear and pivoted front driving axles (thank you again to Jol Wilkinson for recommending that arrangement, as have many other people of course). That leaves some further planning for the bogie (which I intend to have deriving some compensation from the same beam as the front driving axle) and the rear trailing wheels (which will need enough sideplay / movement to negotiate my layout's curves. So no pics at the moment - unless you'd like to see a scan of my brain, showing the electrical activity this is generating...

Lovely looking loco Michael. Thank you for posting - I have one to build, so I'm very pleased to have found these details...

Hello, thank you for the reply; I thought what comes supplied with the kit must be thinner and I shall get some 0.3mm. I too am leaving the glazing and grab handles until last, but I wanted to get the cutting out of the glazing out of the way now (if I have something tedious or a bit boring to be done, I always like getting it done as quickly as possible, old habits etc...); interestingly, some of the windows - the deeper ones - seem to suit using the 0.7mm, so once I have the 0.3mm as well I can pick and choose . Edit: checking through what I have in stock, the thickest glazing (aside from the Wizard 0.7mm) is 0.25mm and that - at only 0.05mm less than the Mousa-supplied 0.3mm - seems very thin to stay rigid in separately cut panes like this. Does it look too thin to you, 2750Papyrus? Am I over-thinking it? I know from experience that 0.25mm works fine in strips fixed inside a thin brass coach side, but getting vertical uniformity here, where the insides of some of the window apertures have come out slightly differently from each other in the moulding process, might be tricky. I've asked again about getting the 0.3mm that comes with the kit, but in the meantime I've ordered some 0.4mm, in hopes that will be the Golden Mean: thin enough to sit properly against the retaining ridges in the shallower windows, thick enough to stand flat...

Finally got going again on the Mousa resin GNR coach, cutting out all the windows: I decided to cut them all now, to a uniform size, fettling later as needed. I'm using glazing strips from Wizard models, 0.7mm thick, and realised as I offered them up that the sill depths vary, as you can see in the photo above. In addition, some have inner ridges that are quite well defined, some don't. I suspect that the glazing that would have been supplied with the kit may have been thinner, so I'll have to remove the inner ridges on the narrower sills, to allow the glazing to sit flush with the outer body surface. A quick test shows that it already does so on the windows with the deeper sills (the taller narrower ones) but not on the others. The thicker body is one advantage this material has over brass; on the brass coaches I've built, I've been at pains to fix the glazing as closely as possible against the inner surface of the coach sides and the very thinness of the brass means you generally get away with it - or certainly at layout viewing distances. This coach should hopefully have truly flush glazing however...