DRS Crewe On A Mission

Thank you for the reply and the info, I really appreciate it. So just to confirm if I want to remove a speedmatched loco from a consist, I just need to delete the consist, and then I can either run the loco by itself or I can speedmatch it with another loco. Do I always need to speedmatch locos together to form consists separately on a different circuit of track or can I have the wire still connected to my controller and track on my layout, and undertake speedmatching with all of my other locos on the layout? Also, once I have speedmatched a loco with another loco, does the original loco ever need speedmatching again, weather it be the original loco it was paired with or any other different loco? Don't worry at all about the speed tables, you have helped massively with speedmatching. Thank you in advance. Kind Regards, Danny.

Thank you all for the replies and info. I really appreciate it. What are speed tables? And what is the difference between speedmatching using CVs and their values to speed tables? I am assuming through what you have already posted that speed tables are more difficult to use than the speedmatching option? What would I have to do on a computer and does this support the option of using speed tables in order to match the speed of locos in a consist? I have a laptop with USB ports, that may be of use. What is JMRI software and where can it be found? Thank you in advance. Kind Regards, Danny.

Thank you for all of the help and info. I really appreciate it. So I shouldn't need to change any CVs other than 3-6? I'm quite fortunate because I don't have any Hornby TTS or LokSound decoders, so hopefully I can minimise some of the potential confusion. So if decide that I want to speedmatch for example Loco A with a third loco, say Loco C, does that mean that I have to change the CVs and values from Locos A and B, back to their originals before attempting to speedmatch Locos A and C together? Also, if I want to run a speedmatched loco by itself and not in a consist anymore do I have to change the CVs and values from just the loco that I want to run by itself or both locos, even if the second loco will not be moving? Speedmatching certainly does sound like it has it's benefits, and I suppose it also creates for more prototypical movement for when locos are running in consists, alike in reality. Thank you in advance. Kind Regards, Danny.

Hi, Thank you very much for the reply and all of the help and information. I really appreciate it. Setting up a separate circuit of track is a great idea. That way it keeps the locos separate to all of the others on the layout. I have seen on tutorials online that when speedmatching people have changed CVs 3, 4, 5 and 6. Are these the only CVs that I should be changing? Also what the are functions of these CVs? I am assuming that these are for speed and momentum. If I do need to reset individual decoders do I need to do CV8 to 8 with just the one loco on the separate circle of track or can I leave multiple locos on the separate circuit and just select them individually in order to reset the decoders? Also, and this may sound like a daft question but after I have changed the CVs and their values for each decoder/loco, do I just put the locos I would like to into a consist, and they should run at the same speed? After I have finished running said locos in a consist, do I then just delete the consist and will the decoders reset back to the original CVs and values that they were before I did the speedmatching, or do I manually need to change the CVs and values back to their original forms after deleting a consist? Do your 150 and 153 run better together now that they have been speedmatched? Thank you for confirming that it's about the difference in response from each motor rather that if fitted with sound or not. Thank you very much in advance. Kind Regards, Danny.

Hi all, I hope you are all well? I wonder if anyone could help me please? I have a range of UK, OO Gauge locomotives and all of them are DCC Fitted. I currently have Bachmann 21 Pin 36-557 DCC Decoders fitted to most of my locos. I am expanding my fleet next year with some of the Accurascale Class 37s and I expect to fit them with 21 Pin ESU DCC Decoders. I am considering buying a sound fitted 37602 loco to run with them. However, I would be wanting to run the sound fitted 37602 loco with DCC Fitted, but non sound fitted Accurascale Class 37s. I have never speedmatched any locos before and instead I have just created a consist to run more than one loco together. I have looked at and read the NCE Powercab instruction booklet, but I can't find or see anything that says 'speedmatching' or the equivalent. I have searched for some tutorial videos on Youtube and I have found some but they are using different brand locomotives, sound and non sound DCC Decoders, to the ones that I would be using. I figured that whilst this information might be helpful I am unsure if it matters what brand of locomotives, sound and non sound DCC Decoders others are using, the process of which I would be following, or is the process and the settings on the various locos and decoders the same, including sound and non sound decoders? Also, as I can't find the appropriate process and steps to undertake speedmatching with the NCE Powercab in the instruction booklet, please could someone tell me or recommend a tutorial video which is easy to follow and explains step by step on what to do? Because the Accurascale 37s are yet to be released I will be practicing this process using Bachmann locos and Bachmann DCC Decoders. Will the process differ next year when I come to speedmatching Accurascale locos and ESU DCC Decoders? I am assuming that the brand of loco in relation to speedmatching shouldn't make the process any different, but I am thinking that the different DCC Decoders may change the process? Sorry for the slightly long post and hopefully it will be understandable. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance. Kind Regards, Danny.

So I'm just thinking out loud for a minute... I understand that because we as modellers and collectors have been demanding higher levels of detailing and more DCC functionality in recent years inevitably the prices of these models are going to increase. I'm going to form an assumption and say that many of us to some extent, don't mind paying increased prices for models, on the basis that we are getting more value for money, especially in those cases at the moment where particular models are been retooled and the new tool presents more detailing and DCC functionality than the predecessor model. But, and this is a big but and where things may become more complex in terms of if potential customers will decide to buy models or not, their becomes a point where the price of certain models weather they be original tooling or new tooling, becomes more difficult for potential customers to justify and/or afford. Of course we all know that no one if forced to buy any model/s, but if particular models are been produced and advertised at higher prices than what we have previously seen, then the manufacturer and/or the retailer/stockist selling these models must be expecting that at least some people will buy them. This would consequently suggest that even for models at a premium price, that their is a market for them in OO Gauge in ready to run form to some extent, but to exactly what extent and thinking about the exact numbers of people who buy each model is unknown. I am now becoming curious and thinking that are their some modellers and collectors who will buy any model that they like regardless of the price and that their will be other modellers and collectors who have a cut off price point in which they are willing to pay up to, and then not move beyond, even if they would really like a particular model. Their may quite well be a happy medium of those who buy some models that they would like whilst at the same time having a cut off price for others. My point being here is that at this stage the market is potentially becoming more separated and dwindled down in terms of individual customers, their likes, interests and what they are willing to spend on particular models. From this bit of thinking it's easy to see how complex and quite unique the market can be for model railways depending upon the type of product or model in question and it's price. In turn this forms a vast amount of consideration and deliberation from modellers and collectors alike as to which models they will buy and which they won't. Add into the mix that in 2020 their is a such a wide and vast amount of choice for modellers and collectors in terms of the different types of models which are available, and the fact that their are now many instances in which more than one manufacturer produces the same model. With this in mind it becomes easy to see just how much and how far we as modellers and collectors have to dwindle down our shopping lists to just buy the models that we would like the most. This isn't a post about or against Heljan, GaugeMaster, any other manufacturer, any retailer/stockist or any member. I am just thinking out loud about the potential market size for the various models that are currently available to us. Going back more firmly onto the topic of the Heljan 86s it is nice and welcome news that GaugeMaster will be stocking 622 and 637 in Freightliner Powerhaul livery. As Heljan are producing 609 in Freightliner Green in their standard range this will offer modellers and collectors the chance to buy both of the most recent liveries worn by the Freightliner 86s. It will also give modellers and collectors the opportunity to form a wider variety of formations, for example a Green 86 could be bought alongside a Powerhaul liveried 86, or their is an opportunity to buy both Powerhaul liveried 86s to create a matching paired formation. Kind Regards, Danny.

You are more than welcome, and I'm glad that I can be of assistance. I have to say I did think the same earlier, that Bachmann could roll out some further 47 locomotives at say £160/£170 for standard range models and maybe slightly higher for Limited Editions either regionally or to particular model shops for say £180/£190. Even the latter models at a slightly higher price than models in the standard range they would still be a good £40/£50 most likely below the Heljan versions that we are discussing. Certainly if their are some liveries, numbers and variations that Bachmann either haven't produced yet or haven't produced in a while, their is probably some scope now to produce them, especially seen as though the Bachmann and Heljan 47s are the most detailed, and have the most functionality etc, so they are direct competitors. Yes, we are assuming that the adverts on the GaugeMaster website are incorrect regarding the 8 Pin DCC functionality, and instead they should be 21 Pin DCC Ready (both Classes 47 and 86), if as has been said to me today that the latest tooling for both the 47s and 86s is going to be used. Kind Regards, Danny.

Hi all, Hope you are all well? I have been in touch with GaugeMaster today and they have confirmed the following regarding the Class 47s and Class 86s that were announced via their website over the weekend: The price of these locomotives at £229.95 each for DCC Ready models is correct for at least the Rail Operations Group 47815 locomotive which I enquired about, so I am assuming that the price for the other five Class 47s is also the same. GaugeMaster didn't say anything different. They are all due to be released next year in 2021 but their is currently no scheduled month for them to arrive The locomotives can be pre-ordered via the website and no payment will be taken until the models are about to be dispatched All of these locomotives are exclusive to the GaugeMaster Collection but from what I can gather won't come with certificates All of the locomotives will be 8 Pin DCC Ready The latest Class 47 and Class 86 tooling will be used to produce these models (although if this is correct then I am assuming that the 8 Pin DCC Ready piece of information means that both classes will actually be 21 Pin DCC Ready, as the latest tooling offers 21 Pin functionality from what I have seen online. So I am assuming that the 8 Pin functionality is an error). All of these locomotives will be produced by Heljan for the GaugeMaster Collection. I hope that this information is of use. Thank you. Kind Regards, Danny.

Hi all, Hope you are all well? I have been in touch with GaugeMaster today and they have confirmed the following regarding the Class 47s and Class 86s that were announced via their website over the weekend: The price of these locomotives at £229.95 each for DCC Ready models is correct They are all due to be released next year in 2021 but their is currently no scheduled month for them to arrive The locomotives can be pre-ordered via the website and no payment will be taken until the models are about to be dispatched All of these locomotives are exclusive to the GaugeMaster Collection but from what I can gather won't come with certificates All of the locomotives will be 8 Pin DCC Ready The latest Class 47 and Class 86 tooling will be used to produce these models (although if this is correct then I am assuming that the 8 Pin DCC Ready piece of information means that both classes will actually be 21 Pin DCC Ready, as the latest tooling offers 21 Pin functionality from what I have seen online. So I am assuming that the 8 Pin functionality is an error). All of these locomotives will be produced by Heljan for the GaugeMaster Collection. I hope that this information is of use. Thank you. Kind Regards, Danny.

This was just a working example of, I imagine some of the market that would want the pair of FL Powerhaul 86s. I never said that everyone would like to buy both, or that everyone would need to buy both. I am just referring to how the prototypes run and therefore the likelihood is that at least some of the potential buyers would wish to buy both models. I'm not specifically talking or referring to myself here and/or my own wants and needs, I'm talking about the market in a more general and broader basis. I wouldn't say that my shopping list was massive. In total it's x4 Class 20/3s, x7 Class 37s and x1 Class 68 with some of the corresponding items of rolling stock thrown in to run with them e.g; Network Rail MK1s and MK2s, ScotRail MK2s, KUAs, Caroline Inspection Saloon and a rake of Transpennine Express MK5s. I wouldn't have said that's a massive wishlist, but nevertheless I always say how grateful I am for what I can afford to buy, and I do work hard for the models that I buy. So I'm not sure what you are trying so suggest about my finances, how much I spend on models, or with regards the content that I post on here. You are also going off topic, and I really doubt that anyone is interested in my finances and shopping list for models. Also, just to clarify I never suggested or called for Heljan or GaugeMaster to sell these models at a reduced price for any reason. I simply mentioned about prototypical formations and how much it would cost for anyone who wanted to buy both 86s. This was not a comment made with any malice, it was just stating a fact and that the total price for both models would/may be a significant amount of money. I have only made a few polite and balanced comments regarding the price of a few models from one manufacturer. These comments are just a small contribution to a forum with hundreds of other members on, so if everyone else is allowed to share their opinions then surely I am too? Most members will know that I never post, mean or imply anything negative towards any other member, retailer or manufacturer. Thank you. Kind Regards, Danny.

Hi Mike, Thank you for raising the points that you have. I didn't think of some of them and I can see why they would increase the overall price per locomotive. If the price is correct for each locomotive I can't help but think, have Heljan considered how many people that would buy or be interested in buying these models a) could afford to and b) could justify spending that amount of money per model. For example if a customer wanted to buy both of the Freightliner Powerhaul 86s to run as a pair, as is prototypical most of the time in reality, that would cost £460 and with DCC Decoders for a DCC user, nearly £500. That's without either of the locomotives been fitted with sound. If the price is correct, I just can't help but think that they are pricing the majority of potential customers who ordinarily would buy these models out of buying them. I, alike others who have posted above couldn't afford and I wouldn't be able to justify spending almost £230 each on 47815, 86622 and 86637. Unfortunately, this would mean that I and many others would miss out. Thank you. Kind Regards, Danny.

I have just emailed GaugeMaster regarding the pricing of 47815, 86622 and 86637 and if the price of £229.95 each is correct. I will update you all when I have received a reply. Kind Regards, Danny.

You would like to think so wouldn't you. I have just been checking the Rails website for the prices of the first batch of the standard range of 86s. The first batch which includes the BR Blue and BR Rail Blue versions are priced at £161.45 without weathering. I understand that Limited Edition models most of the time are offered at higher prices than other liveries in standard ranges, so for a Freightliner Powerhaul 86 or two in this case, you would expect to be paying possibly around £180 or £190 each, but certainly not almost £230. Surely if the price of almost £230 was a holding price instead it would just say or be more useful to say price TBA, and then confirm the price at a later stage. Kind Regards, Danny.

Whilst it's nice of Heljan to offer some further versions and liveries of the Class 86 as Limited Editions I have just been looking at the product pages and thinking exactly the same. Almost £230 for DCC Ready. I rarely complain about prices but... Kind Regards, Danny.

That's a good idea and I have just changed the title of the thread. As you say it makes sense to use this thread for them, rather than having a second thread and it becoming confusing. Kind Regards, Danny.

Thank you for the reply, information and help. I really appreciate it. That's excellent news. I'm pleased to see another wagon appear in ready to run form for O Gauge modellers. Thank you for the help. Kind Regards, Danny.

Hi all, I wonder if anyone could help me please? Andy Y posted on the thread for the virtual model railway show that has taken place today that their was going to be a new Dapol announcement. Has this already happened today and something been announced? Consequently have I missed it? If so please could someone tell me what's been announced please and in what gauge? If I haven't missed it is the announcement due to be made tomorrow or has it been rescheduled to take place at a later date? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Kind Regards, Danny.

I forgot to say that I don't have OHLE fitted on the layout either. But I would still buy some and run them nonetheless. Kind Regards, Danny.

Thank you to those who suggested creating a poll, to those who created it and to everyone for voting. It's really interesting to gauge the demand from RMWeb, and to see how many people would buy a model with currently one livery, across just ten locos. I have just submitted a vote for three Class 88s and I'm the second person to do. I have chosen to vote for three 88s because recently they have been working in pairs on nuclear flask trains, which can be easily replicated in OO Gauge and they also regularly work Tesco intermodal trains in reality which can also be replicated in model form by using the Dapol IDAs and/or IKA Megafrets. I have the latter and a selection of nuclear wagons. With this in mind I figured I could either have a pair on a flask train and the third could be used on an intermodal working. Alternatively, I could have two working intermodal trains because I know that in reality their can be up to three workings of the Tesco trains operating on any one day. I could then have the third model as a spare for wagon transfers, engineers workings or sat spare on the depot ready to swop with one of the two on intermodal duties. The other option could be to just rotate the three and have one on maintenance/repair at any one time. I would potentially buy four or more but I chosen to vote for three models because the likelihood would be that if a manufacturer was to produce the 88 in OO, they would have to produce a few, most likely at least three or four numbers in the first batch to cover development work and tooling costs. With that in mind I may struggle to buy four or more all in one go, but certainly if I could afford it I would and if their was a second batch at a later stage I would most likely buy some more. I trust that none of this will come as a huge surprise to anyone given how everyone knows how big a fan I am of DRS and their locos. That's not to mention my profile name haha!... Thank you. Kind Regards, Danny.

This isn't a wishlist but if their are some modern image items announced as part of the Bachmann Collectors Club range on Tuesday, I personally have a feeling that some or all of these models will feature: GBRf 47739 or 47749 in their unique liveries (I doubt that both would feature as Collectors Club Editions on the same quarterly announcement), a DRS 'Fade/Revised' 57/3 (from 301, 303, 304, 306, 308, 309 or 310), West Coast, Northern Belle liveried 57601 and 90024 in DB Malcolm livery. Kind Regards, Danny.

I'm fully with you on this mate. It was originally due July 2020 and then it's been pushed back time after time, month after month, and the last time I checked it was due Nov/Dec 2020, so hopefully we will see it this year. It certainly has been pushed back a fair few months. Kind Regards, Danny.

I wouldn't say comparisons are pointless. In order for production runs to be viable of any model weather new or existing tooling, their has to be a range of liveries to manufacturer. At the moment the Class 88 only wears one livery in reality, so I thought it was relevant to compare ten 88s to, eleven converted 73/96s in GBRf and Caledonian Sleeper livery. In terms of liveries the 73/96s only wear one more livery than the Class 88, so if this project goes ahead, it immediately becomes more attractive as and when Class 88s gain a second or third livery, to produce the Class 88 in model form. It's been nice to see some photos online of the 88s been trialled on the car flow. Hopefully this will become a more permanent fixture for the class. Kind Regards, Danny.

With the 88 it is a bit of a shame at the moment, regarding the liveries only wearing one prototype, because I am sure even if their was just one other livery Dapol or another manufacturer would have at least made an announce to commit to producing them. I agree, we will probably see a OO version first, with possibly an N gauge version further down the line but this could be some time away and as you say achieved through a crowdfunding initiative. When I mentioned that their are only two liveries between the GBRf and Caledonian Sleeper 73/96s, I didn't include the Network Rail Yellow versions because they are owned and operated by Network Rail and their are some external differences between these two and the GBRf and Caledonian Sleeper liveried 73/96s. That is true, the Midnight Teal livery is a very smart livery and it matches the MK5 Coaches. This alone would encourage people to buy them in model form, and the fact that Accurascale are producing the MK5s and potentially the Caledonian Sleeper 73/96s too, should mean that the colours are the same on both models, which will also be encouraging for people to hear. A third incentive for people to buy the Caledonian Sleeper 73s and corresponding MK5s is because it provides a rare opportunity to create a prototypical double header, hauling a passenger sleeper train and whilst using 73s. As you say their are quite a few incentives to buy these models. Yes the NR 73/95s have a lot of flexibility in terms of their geographical sphere of operations. I know that they have operated test trains in the south as well as the Midlands, Peak District, and Yorkshire including Leeds and Sheffield. Kind Regards, Danny.

I agree. I'm really happy with the Dapol 68s, so I'm not in a massive rush to have some DRS 88s, although in the long term they would be great to have in model form. I am sure that as and when the sphere of DRS operations expand to include more demand for Class 88 traction, then as you say their is more of an incentive to apply customer liveries as DRS have done with numerous other locos and classes. Their is also every chance of a new or revised Compass livery. I mean look at all of the DRS and Compass liveries that DRS locos have worn over the years. It tends to only be a few years before DRS update their Compass livery. Kind Regards, Danny. In terms of availability their tends to be as a general rule of thumb a few in use daily now. I find that three feature daily on the Daventry to Mossend and return intermodal workings. Their is usually two trains going one way and the third going the other way, all been hauled by a single 88 at the moment. Their also tends to be a pair of 88s featuring on nuclear trains recently too, and this is becoming more and more common and no doubt it will continue for the immediate future at least with the RHTT season here and the requirements for many locos for those trains. Their is also sometimes a sixth 88 in action on wagon runs between Kingmoor and Motherwell and return, transporting wagons on and off repair. This tends to leave four either available for use or on exam, maintenance or repair at Crewe and Kingmoor. So realistically at the moment with just ten their doesn't appear to be the capacity for their to be a significant amount of locos available for other contracts such as TPE if that was to ever happen in the medium to long term future. In the long term again, I doubt that with current availability averaging at around four locos per day, but this including the locos on exam, maintenance and repair. that their would be enough to cover a large contract alike the Caledonian Sleeper. GBRf have several of their 73s and 92s for those trains and with the 73s sometimes, even with six locos they don't always have enough locos to work the services which is why occasionally one 73 may be swopped for a 66, so to just utilise one 73 as opposed to two to operate with the MK5s, obviously which a 66 alone cannot do. Obviously if DRS placed an order for additional 88s issues regarding availability and capacity for the 88 fleet and any future/potential contracts for the fleet wouldn't be an issue. I suppose we will have to wait and see. Kind Regards, Danny.

Hi Tom, Thank you for mentioning that the Caledonian Sleeper 73s had worked with the MK2s and MK3s, I had forgotten about that. Also I didn't know that they had worked with MK1s, so thank you for posting this too. Yes I definitely think that once the 88s are adorned into one or two new liveries, then we will see Dapol or possibly another manufacturer announce and commit to producing them. But for the time being whilst none of the prototypes are gaining a new livery, I think it would be difficult for any manufacturer to justify and commit to producing ten locos in just one livery. But certainly if the GBRf and CS 73/96s go ahead I don't see why the 88s won't in time. Kind Regards, Danny.