LMS2968

Like that; it even includes the Gloucester Street nameplate. I wonder how many people have walked up there and not realised that this short road even had a name, let alone what it was!

Having sent that, I realised that I should have asked if anyone has any information on the class which they might like to share with our Archive. Before I got around to posting this Peter (Ph) had already sent me a pm asking if I wanted any such. The answer, of course, is Yes! We currently have over 20,000 sightings of the class in its 33 year history on the LMS and BR, but more is warmly welcomed, be it sightings, photos (don't worry about technical quality), stories and anecdotes. Sightings so far consist of anything between engine number, date and location; to others with train type, reporting number, direction, number of vehicles, shed code, engine condition and, occasionally, time of day. No-one has yet said what the driver had for breakfast, but basically, the more information, the better. If sending photos, please state any publication conditions, e.g. no publication, in house publication only or free, all subject to full credit being given. Contributions can be sent to archivist@staniermogulfund.org.uk , or through our website, www.staniermogulfund.org.uk Thanks in advance.

Hmm... not sure how it got there. From the Archive for 2958: 31/12/64 Warrington Dallam shed 01/01/65 Warrington Dallam shed 10/01/65 Birkenhead shed 15/01/65 Newton Heath mpd 28/0165 Newton Heath mpd 24/01/65 Mirfield shed 27/01/65 Mirfield shed 13/02/65 Hellifield Southbound passenger Morcambe - Leeds 27/02/65 Guide Bridge Light Engine to Gorton You are correct about the transfer from Rugby to Gorton at that time. And thanks for that sighting - now on the Archive!

The list of allocations I gave wasn't comprehensive: I got bored after a while(!) but it included all the places where there were large or long standing allocations. For example, I didn't mention Brunswick on the CLC which only ever had one allocated - 2949 - but that allocation lasted nearly nine years. The allocations quoted are from the Engine History Cards so I can vouch for the Scottish allocations. Originally, they were sent to the four LMS Divisions, but had been concentrated on the Western Division (ex-LNWR) before WW II, possibly to allow more intensive use by the same crews, who would therefore get a better understanding of them. Although they did turn up at Lostock Hall occasionally, they were never on that shed's books, although a couple did spend time at Preston shed. As said, they were generally Western Division engines rather than Central, which all went out the window towards the end. Aintree was home for at least one of them for a while. I have all this plus an extensive collection of photographs in the Fund's Archive, and am happy to share information with people, although you would need to tell me what you need; it's too vast to simply put everything on here.

Several preserved lines ran locos I fictitious colour schemes at that time, the KWVR among them. A problem was a prohibition by BR of using any logo of the BR logos: BRITISH RAILWAYS, ferret and dartboard or the 1957 logo. They were trying to rid themselves of the vision of the old fashioned steam engine and were madly pushing forward the ultra-modern diesel and electric image. Engines could not therefore be turned out in correct livery, not if built in the BR era, at least, and there seemed to be a sort of 'What the Hell' reaction. Most lines have grown up a bit since.

Yes, PenrithBeacon, perhaps I should have explained that better. The similarities between 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 boilers is a bit more complicated than stated. The first twelve 8Fs had the 2-6-0 firebox with vertical throatplate (as did the first Black Fives), but the boiler barrel was a foot longer. Later 8Fs had a sloping throatplate firebox, which intruded into the boiler length, shortening it by a foot, and making it the same as the 2-6-0s' (but with a dome). The allocations varied a lot over the years, originally they were allocated to all four LMS divisions but by the 1950s they were concentrated around Birmingham (Aston, Bushbury, Monument Lane) and roughly the North West (Crewe [North and South], Mold Junction, later extending to Stoke, Heaton Mersey, Gorton, Nuneaton and Springs Branch, Wigan. They could turn up almost anywhere on excursions, North Wales coast, Southport, Blackpool, Lake District, Skegness and Scarborough. As said, Fast Fitted Goods was their forte and they worked all the WCML south of Crewe (they did work over Shap, but not often), the Midland over the S&C to Carlisle, also to Somers Town (London) and Bristol, over the Pennines and occasionally into South Wales. In the 1960s, they also penetrated the Fens country from Peterborough. They regularly penetrated ex-GWR and LNER lines, but I have only a single sighting (out of over 20,000!) on Southern territory. Pre-war, some were allocated to the Northern Division and there are sightings of them as far north as Perth, one in Aberdeen! Post war, there is not a single sighting in Scotland, although I'm sure Kingmoor must occasionally have borrowed one to work northwards! Likewise, Willesden must surely have used them on the cross-London lines to the Southern. Unless your modelling a GWR single line branch, you could almost certainly justify having one!

It was actually the first 20 (13245-64) which had the split taper boiler cladding, the last 20 had a continuous taper. All were fitted with continuous taper cladding by WW II except 2955, which retained the split taper to withdrawal. This is unfortunate for Bachmann as it's one of the models they plan. The first ten also had the safety valves in the top feed. Some boilers with this arrangement were not modified until BR days, by which time they could appear on any class member. Photos are your friend here. You also have round and square-topped cylinders, Philbax's model shows the latter. They were fitted to the first NINE (not ten as many believe) engines, 13245 - 53. All retained these except 2949, which got round top ones some time before WW II. Other differences were whistles: 2975-84 had Stanier hooters mounted horizontally, the first 30 had Midland type mounted vertically. Oh, and the last five had only one mechanical lubricator mounted on the fireman's side, all others had two. And no Stanier Crab had the smokebox door support bracket on the opposite side to the hinges, which were common to other Stanier classes. Tenders came in a range of a possible SIX types: snap head rivets with coal rails and the edge beading to the side panels mounted on top of the panel was original. Other tenders might be counter-sunk riveted (these tenders were never welded construction), might not have coal rails and might have the edge beading mounted on the side of the panel - or any combination of the above. Again, you need photos of the modelled engine at the chosen period, and even then the edge beading can be difficult to distinguish.

The main differences between the Horwich and Stanier Crabs in the chassis are the height of the cylinders, but the valve gear is also rather different: the Horwich Crab used a much longer expansion link and the radius rod was lifted by a pendulum link in front of the expansion link; Stanier's version used an extension of the radius rod lifted by a two-forked arm behind the expansion link. The 2-6-0's boiler was one foot shorter than an 8F's and two feet shorter than a Black Five's, which will effect the taper of the cladding sheets. The cab is very different to any other Stanier type, being more like the Horwich Crab's except that the side sheets reached down to the same level as the bottom of the tender tank; and the roof vent was sliding rather than lifting. The tender (as built) was the Standard Fowler type with snap head rivets. I sent Bachmann drawings of the engines in January this year. For some reason, they failed to arrive so were resent in March. Apart from our member's report stated above, I've heard nothing since.

A Stanier Mogul Fund member spoke to the Bachmann people at the NEC about a release date. The reply was '...end of next year at the earliest.'

You know, I think you missed your vocation somewhere along the way!

No, they're just waiting for the upper torsos of their drivers to be glued on top!

Probably. It was a common way to save a path all over the country.

Now that is unusual! Granted, it was unusual to see a Stanier pacific double heading anyway, but when it happened there were three basic rules: The assisting engine had to lead The assisting engine had to be a 4-4-0, 4-6-0 or 2-6-4T Two (Stanier?) pacifics could not be run together. Whether or not this last prohibition included other classes of pacifics or if here the rule was being broken, I cannot say.

Ye gods, they take me back! I was a volunteer at Bridgnorth in 1970 (As I am yet again!). C309: 5110 was a new arrival then and I remember changing the exhaust injector with a direct replacement. I imagine she has two live steam ones now. The Lady A(rmadale) - she never got her full title - looks well; I fired her many a time. In fact, apart from 813 and the Peckett, and W22, of course, I had firing turns on all these engines. C310: I'd say the engine at the back is Jim McNally's Peckett 0-4-0ST

I too would comment on this, but unfortunately I used up my stock of superlatives a long time ago!

ScR engines were generally overhauled at St Rollox, and while English works tended to keep the same TYPE of boiler with an engine, Scottish works didn't. The top feed could migrate from one end of the boiler to the other following each Heavy repair, or even disappear altogether.

Collin Giffard, eat your heart out!

I think the one of 5553 is at Red Bank on the Winwick Jct - Golborne Jct cut-off.

Totally off topic, but possibly of interest. There was a strange system of working off Bamfurlong Sidings, Wigan for traffic on to the ex-L&YR at Hindley No. 2. The train would epart with a loco, brakevan, train of wagons and another loco at the rear, without a brake in between. This would depart over the Whelley Line and run past De Trafford Junction, where it would reverse on to the spur up to Hindley No. 2, the former train engine now banking up the grade. On joining the L&Y, the erstwhile bank engine would drop off, leaving the train to what had been the banker on starting out, which was often a WD!

It was the late 1970s - early 1980s, presumably when they were displaced by HSTs, when Deltics were regularly used on the Liverpool - Newcastle services. It wasn't a one-off special.

When the Horwich Crabs were being designed, George Hughes ordered a suitable tender, based on the later ones attached to the Dreadnoughts, to go with them. Needless to say, these would have matched the width of the cab. Henry Fowler, on taking the CME's position late in the engines' design process, ordered that they be paired with the LMS Standard 3,500 gallon type, derived from the Midland article. The Horwich and Stanier Crabs often receive criticism for the mismatch between their cab sidesheets and tender sides, but they weren't alone. When built, the Royal Scots also got this tender, as did the early Jubilees (some of which had them very late on), although some of the 5Xs managed to dump them on to 8Fs, which therefore also share the ignominy.

There's just no pleasing some people!

Yes, Coach it does. There's such a wealth of detail in the layout I'd never got around to looking for a backscene!

I'll reserve my comments for when the other photos are uploaded, otherwise I'm in real danger of running out of superlatives! Beautiful work, Jason.

It is most certainly a Black Five heading north out of Preston under the Fishergate bridge.