LMS2968

Yes, a turbo generator, this engine having electric headlights.

The original batch built in 1934 were a lucky lot, as 5001, 5005, 5013, 5017, 5025, 5027, 5034, 5046, 5055, 5057 and 5065 lasted into 1968, the final year of steam with some lasting through to the final month.

 

So much for all the subsequent alterations from verticle to sloping throatplate, increased superheat, domeless, rear dome and forward dome, Caprotti valvegear, Stevensons motion, low running plate, high running plate, single or double chimneys, roller bearings and the rest. Taking stock at the end of the day, the LMS could have saved itself a boatload of messing about and a pile of money in the bargain while the BR standard variant may as well not have been built!

 

I'd better add a smiley...

I'm not sure which it was, either John Powell or J.W.P. Rowledge, but he reckoned these vertical throatplate / 21 element Black 'uns were the the best steamers of them all!

On another matter, did you receive the PM I sent you the other day about the second Stanier Mogul photo?

David

No Dave, I didn't. Things have been a bit fraught here with a good friend in his last days, so I haven't been chasing anything.

5020 - the REAL first Black Five!

It shall be done!

That photo, as a print, of Stanier Crab 2949 and credited to "Photographer Unknown", has been in the Stanier Mogul Fund Archive Collection for at least twenty years, although with a lot more white dots on it than shown here. We've never used it, even within the Fund's in-house magazine. I don't know how we acquired it as it was there when I took over as Archivist, but at last I can date it and give due credit to the original photographer.

Thank you for that!

Exhaust injectors were fitted retrospectively to many LMS engines which didn't previously have them, but the programme was curtailed before completeion so some classes had engines with one exhaust injector and one live steam,others with two live steam. The ex-Midland and Midland-derived classes had the pipe exiting the smokebox as shown before diving below the running plate. Remember that ex-Midland and early LMS builds were right hand drive, but later examples were left hand drive. The exhaust injector was always fitted to the fireman's side so could appear on either side of an engine, according to the drive layout.

It wasn't too uncommon to use a large engine which was long due for overhaul as the shed pilot. It might be unsuitable for main line use due to steaming qualities or its rough ride at speed, so would fill in its waiting days trundling unhurriedly around the shed!

I'm not a GWR type, but I know that the track through the stage extended beyond it. I assume that the loaded wagons were pushed up the slope by a loco and out the other side of the stage, then run back into the stage by gravity, someone controlling their speed by the wagon handbrakes. The empties would therefore be on the right side ready to be taken away.

Does that sound about right?

had a great weekend,ran well, a few bumps from the operators but nothing like what happened in 1949..

 

http://www.railwaysa...eStreet1949.pdf

When I was a guard at Edge Hill in 1973, Guard George Barton was still there, by that time shop steward of the NUR. I had many a talk with him as he was a very friendly soul, and he told me all about that accident, although his version varied slightly from that in the report!

You know, I could be standing there in the six foot seventy years ago(I hadn't actually been born then, but you know what I mean!); it's only the model railway coupling which gives the game away.

You need to look to your train lamps though: one on the stock but none on the loco. The bobby would be most unimpressed!

All those photos brought back so many memories. Thanks for sharing them.

The entrance to the shed was off it near to where the spur and line from Wapping joined, at Edge Hill No 11 box (Engine Shed Jct). The line was a lot higher than the shed so engines entered by a downwards gradient of 1:27, if I remember correctly. This could cause some embarrassment if the crews got a bit carried away with the brake! The viaduct carrying the Wapping - Circle line actually crossed in front of the shed buildings and segregated them from the servicing area. There was another way off the shed under the Wapping line and trailing into the Down (towards Lime St) L&M line, but I don't think it got much use.

When I was there (1973), to go off shed we'd take the loco up the gradient and then reverse down the Wapping line and then into Edge Hill station and so down to Lime Street station. In earlier days, the engine would turn left at No 11 and take the spur towards Runcorn, then reverse again at Wavertree Jct. It was a huge and truely fascinating area.

That will be what we called 'The Circle'. Heading east out of Edge Hill station on the right (south) is the remains of a rising viaduct. This swung right then left, crossing the Runcorn / Crewe / London line, then continued east at high level, passing Edge Hill sheds on its left. A south to east spur joined it. Nrear Rathbone road it began an anti-clockwise 180 degree turn over the L&M line to re-emerge on the north side of the layout. Thus could trains from the south or from the south dacks access the gridiron and sorting sidings to the north without fouling the L&M main line.

I was very sad when The Circle was taken out of use and dismantled.

There were several routes used depending on the period; I hadn't heard of this one before but that doesn't rule it out.

The most common route was through Hellifield to Blackburn, then over the Lancashire Union Line through Whelley, Ince Moss, St. Helens, then down the St.Helens and Runcorn Gap line (which Edge Hill men always called the 'Clock Face line', after the colliery it passed just south of St. Helens) and so into Widnes. Can't remeber where it went after that, though.

It did apply at Euston also, and there the train engine would continue to assist to the top of Camden Bank and drop off there, where it was nicely positioned to go on shed. A common feature of both stations was a start straight on to a steep bank, and with 15, 16 and even 17 coach trains to be dragged up there by the little tankie acting as station pilot, sticking half way up might have proven embarassing. The situation at Euston was that if the train was brought in by the Turbo, a bigger engine, sometimes an 8F, would be sent down to bring the stock up as 6202's reverse turbine wasn't sufficiently powerful to give enough assistance.

I don't recall the train engine at Lime St directly following the empty stock into the cutting, but it most definitely gave it a bit of a start for the length of the platform.

I can tell you now the loco would of only moved up to the signal on the authority of the signaller in the first place as permissive block regulations(platforms) apply.

 

which in plain English states once a train has come to a stand in a permsive worked section. or has split for the purposes of providing two trains or removal of loco. no portion shall move with out the express permission of the signaller as another train may be signalled to enter the section.

I can state that it was standard practice for the incoming loco to follow the train out, usually with the buffers still touching, and stop at the starter at the platform end. I saw it countless times. Rules were often superceded by 'local custom' and allowed for in the Sectional Appendix. although I haven't seen a copy of the one apply to confirm.

The centre section of the roof is now going ahead as phase two of the roof construction. (Must have been too much wine!)

Excellent!

I spent a lot of time in Lime Street in the 'fifties and can't recall a big gap in the roof! I can though recall almost everything else about the model being there. Superb work people.

By the way, you need really to model the Legs og Man pub as well. For those who don't know the area, looking at the station from the steps of the George's Hall, it was fronted by the North Wetern hotel, to the left of which was and is the Empire Theatre, then the Legs of Man on the corner with London Road, so handy for the station. In fact, it was an integral part of the station for many crews between trains. I was told this story (from the 1980s) by a very good friend who was at that time a driver at Lime Street.

At that time, licensing hours required a closure between the lunchtime and evening openings, but the manager realised that, with trains arriving and leaving Lime Street throughout this period, he would be losing an awful lot of business. Then one afternoon, the police raided the Legs of Man and took away all those caught inside. There was chaos in the station as trains, long overdue for departure, stood alongside the platforms bereft of either driver or guard, or possibly both, who were 'helping the police with their inquiries'. Moreover, with so many platforms occupied, inbound trains were blocked back for many miles waiting for a platform to become free. Apparantly, it took hours to clear the mess.

Happily, my friend wasn't a customer of the Legs of Man!

Final running session yesterday in preparation for Ally Pally. All went well, if you ignore the head on crash between a freight train and a light engine. Oops! (N.B. for New Bryford - it wasn't me driving at the time)

We await the RAIB (or MoT) report with interest!