young37215

8 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

One thing I wasn’t sure about is how the buffet steward entered the area behind the counter. Was there a lift up flap or a gap at the (former) toilet end of the coach?

There was a door added between the converted toilet and the area behind the counter which is visible on some of the pictures earlier in this thread, one of which I have copied below, and the diagram shows. The diagram also shows how the counter top was rebated to allow for the trolley to be inserted. I chose not to rebate the counter top because I wanted the wider top as part of the structural integrity of the cut out area. It also seemed to fiddly to bother with!, whether the same can be said for O gauge is for your judgement. From the internal pictures I have seen it is clear that in preservation the rebated counter top has been replaced  

On 24/08/2023 at 23:56, keefer said:

BSOT layout from the BR Diagram book (originally posted in another BSOT thread, I'll have to find it though).

(I originally posted more but realised that 4 of them applied to the Mk2 BSOT, oops)

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, 03060 said:

Have you covered 37037 Rob ? Not sure if the body is the correct style or not and I've just noticed that whilst it had round buffers at No.2 end it appears to have had oval buffers at No.1 end !

I have been intending to do 37037 for a while now, it is the one long standing split box Eastfield 37 that I do'nt currently have. I was unaware of the oval/round buffer situation on 37037 so that is useful info. The current 37108 has the incorrect roof profile and seemed a logical candidate for renumbering as 37037. However having seen others filing/sanding off the rivets to create a plain, welded roof profile, I am pondering doing the same with my 37108 which I would like to keep as it is one of the earliest split box 37's transferred to Eastfield. My latest plan (which is about version 999) is to renumber 37022 as 37037. One of my two 37027's can then be renumbered as 37022 with a little work. The good news is the details of the Scottish steam heat class 37's should become a little clearer with the impending release of the SDEG book, I was delighted to receive an email advising this should be available in late Spetember.   

37112 heads for Glasgow with the 1254 from Oban which includes BSOT 9000 amongst the 5 coach rake. I am still uncertain on the 5 coaches, I suspect that the rake will be reduced back to 4 in the near future.

Based upon SC55015's pictures and research, my choices for the 2 additional BSOT conversions will be SC9001 and SC9015. Having learnt from my first conversion I hope that subsequent conversions will be a little quicker. I will need more red stripe transfers from Railtec and replacement Commonwealth bogies for SC9015 but otherwise I am ready to start work. Commonwealth bogies might be a short term challenge, based on my efforts to find some I find that Hornby spares appear thin on the ground. A set were sold on Ebay June 2023 but there are none around that I can find at present. Worst case is I will run SC9015 with BR1's in the short term and hope to find replacement bogies at a later date. 

The 1986 WTT records all passenger working as vacum braked except for the sleeper so the BSOT's could continue working albeit they might be a bit chilly. A number of the pictures in SC55015's gallery show 37/4's hauled services through to 1988 indicating that the BSOT's remained in use. A look in the Longworth coaching stock book shows BSOT withdrawls started in 1985 with the fleet largely gone by the end of 1986 with only 3 surviving into 1987. How catering was provided post the BSOT I do not know, a trolley without a designated space?  

19 hours ago, meanach said:

I’m not sure if you own one already but Rails have the excellent Gauge Master Gras-master 3.0 for £54.95. That’s actually a very good price and I’d recommend it to anyone with quite a bit of scenery to do. It’s certainly better than the home made electro sieve I did Meanach with ! 

Thanks Ian. I am going to try the cheaper option of 'scrounge Doug's and see how it performs' approach as a first step.

37039 arrives at Ardlui with 8D10  The loco failed further south refusing to respond to commands from the controller. I fear I may have suffered a chip failure, of late I have noticed that the bodyshell gets quite hot even when stationary and wonder if the over 10 year old ESU Loksound V4 has expired.  

On 31/08/2023 at 07:59, Carl L said:

Would I be right in saying that all your green banks/landscaping is done without static grass?

Yes, at this time. I plan to selectively add static grass detailing once I have got all of the landscape structure in place. 

In between applying transfers to the BSOT conversion, operations continued. 37175 heads north from Crianlarich with 7B02

I am not that familar with coach formations post the 37/4 introduction but would guess that the BSOT'S were only in use for the summer, no heat period. I think I have a 1987 WTT somewhere to see what it says, it certainly looks like trains remained vacum brake which would have meant the BSOT's could have been included. For the winter timetable trains were much shorter without catering.

Railtec transfers arrived yesterday and were added to SC9000 to complete my efforts on the conversion. The red stripe should be longer but this would have meant using all of the smaller stripes leaving me without any for the next 2 conversions. I'll have to thinkk about how to manage this because the larger red stripes look to big. The location of the old number will get another coat of paint and I hope that a final coat of matt varnish will reduce its visibility as well as sealing the transfers.

Following in 27041's footsteps towards Oban and seen on departure from Ardlui is 37114 with its charter train. 

8 hours ago, kintbury jon said:

Looking at the list above reminds me of the only time I ever saw one of these coaches in service.  Living in London it was not surprising, however on a day spotting in Reading (probably 1989 when I was about 12) I remember 31101 heading in from the west with a rake of about 5 coaches.  9016 happened to be in the rake and probably made it the rarest vehicle I have ever seen there.  The 31 ran around its train and then headed back out towards Didcot.  

 

I would love to know what service it was doing - way before mobile phones and Realtime Trains!

Bare in mind that after January 1989 all WHL trains except for the sleeper had gone over to Sprinters meaning the coaching stock was available for other work. BR continued to withdraw life expired Mk1s and what was left was used as and where required. If I recall correctly, there are several pictures showing Network South East liveried rolling stock working the Far North. To find SCR stock on the Western region does not come as a surprise to me.

9 hours ago, 03060 said:

 

 

The reason that I asked about this was that I couldn't remember logging many BSOTs in my WHL 1980s train formations thread ... and after a quick check realise that my thoughts were right, so I may have to re-look at these notes and see if I've mis-identified several coaches. It also means that I may have to model more than the 2 BCK - BSOT conversions that I'd originally planned for.

 

Some great information coming through at the moment !

 

Regards,

Ian.

Based upon the pictures that I have looked at, I would say a high percentage of trains of the 1980's WHL era contained a BSOT. For modelling purposes I would like to include a BSOT in each of the 5 rakes used on the WHL. However the booked load was 6 coaches and having selectively compressed my stations, I only run load 4 which means that I either have 2 brake coaches in a 4 coach consist or just the BSOT on its own. I am trialling load 5 on the 2 Oban rakes at present but am not convinced that the extended train looks right on WHL4.   

At inception the BSOT fleet was split between Eastern and Scottish regions. I believe that the Eastern used them on Liverpool Street Cambidge services and they were trialled on the Birmingham Norwich services. Presumably these fell out of fashion for some reason as the P5 Coaching Stock books show the evolution of the BSOT fleet on creation and their migration to the SCR during the early 80's. I suspect that the railway journals of the day will have an article or two on this; is anyone aware of such an article? Can we get our collective hands on a copy.

From Robert Carroll's Coaching Stock Groups collection, the 1982/3 CWN's for peoples reference. There are other years available on Robert's IO Group.

ScR_1982-3_PTM Carriage workings.pdf

42 minutes ago, 03060 said:

Question .... do we think that every regular timetabled West Highland passenger service during the 80s should have  included a BSOT ?

The CWN's are your source of reference for the definitive allocation but from a glance at the 1983 CWN, virtually every WHL, Far North and Aberdeen to Inverness trains includes a BSOT. Odd balls like the tea time Fort William Mallaig round trip did not but mainstream services during the summer months all include a BSOT. 

9 hours ago, coronach said:

Just come across this layout - wow!  You have really captured well the atmosphere of the West Highland line. I travelled over it a couple of times in the ‘37’ era, firstly before the 37/4 takeover. Mk1 steam heat, post buses…. It was like going back in time compared to my usual experience of the ECML. Later on in the 1990s, I took my son to Mallaig on a 156. Your scenery is perfect and reminds me of a lengthy stop in the fresh air at Ardlui waiting for the southbound train to pass. 

Trying to create the atmosphere of the west highlands is what WHL4 is all about and it is nice to receive such warm compliments; thank you. There is a track plan on page 35 of the thread and a video of the layout on Youtube.

27041 continued on its way to Oban passing through Crianlarich where it made a brief stop to exchange single line tokens. What with the breakdown train and the Ayrshire charter, Oban will be a busy place when all of the trains arrive. 

Over the last couple of days I pushed on with my SC9000 conversion which by the end of yesterday I had in service albeit for testing purposes only because it is not yet finished. A coat of white paint was applied to the internal buffet area.

By the time the white paint had dried I had discovered the pictures showing the blue interior in SC9000! A first coat of blue was then applied, this may need a second coat depending on how it has dried and covered the areas. The 10g piece of lead is also visible, there is another 10g at the opposite end of the coach.

I found that I had transfers to do the renumbering and the window in the brake area was painted white to create the unique feature of SC9000. The red stripe and 'Buffet' signs are outstanding intil the new Railtec transfers arrive.

A few passengers were added and the screen blocking the window behind the buffet counter was covered over using card glued in place with Glue and Glaze. The bodyshell was refitted and the coach placed in service at the rear of an Oban train. Only then did I realise that the number should be under the first window, not the toilet. Fortunately I have'nt sealed this yet which should allow it to be moved to the correct position.

10 hours ago, SC55015 said:

This was a useful one I came across of 9001, there are a few images where the vehicle had a blue band on a white window and this was the only one I could identify the vehicle, and it no longer has the red over three windows:

 

Some more excellent research material. Whilst looking at the above picture which dates to 1986, I found another BSOT gallery with a few new pictures (and a larger number of duplicates). Of prticular interest to me is that most of the BSOT's are located at the end of their consists which is in line with the carriage working notices. I'll also need tp get the white paint out again for the window on SC9000 which I had not noticed previously.  

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151135632@N04/galleries/72157713849495897/with/49774164058/

Also getting a run out was a charter from Ayr to Oban with 37114 heading the Sealink stock on its way west just south of Ardlui. Annoyingly the actuating wire that controls the signal in the last picture snapped in half and needs replacing. It had been playing up for a while, at least now I understand why it was playing up!

Pictures of the inside of SC9000 in the early 1990's courtesy of Peak Rail Association. The colours of the coach end are interesting appearing to be laminate with aluminium framing presumably on top of the original wood panelling. The point has been made on the Coaching Stock IO Group that SC9000 was one of 4 conversions from a 1956 build BSO with predominantly wood panelling whereas the other 14 were from a 1963, predominantly laminate panelled build. The fact that SC9000 was converted to BSOT in 1981 and withdrawn in 1987, suggests that the panelling seen in these pictures is probably that of the original conversion. With SC9000 and SC9011 we have pictures of the buffet areas of both 1956 and 1963 built coaches, how close the other coaches were to these I doubt we will ever know unless pictures can be traced but I feel sufficiently comfortable with the information I have to settle for my version of SC9000 as I have converted it. 

What I have also found is that by 1984 13 of the 18 BSOT conversions were allocated to the SCR to cover the operational needs of the West Highland and Far North lines.  

Several choices, personally I only have experience of Megapoints which I use to control around 75 servos on my West Highland layout. There is a thread, the best thing that I like about them is the Youtube videos which have proven to be a really powerful aid to my understanding of how to use the kit. The Vendor has a good reputation for being helpful and I have first hand experience of this.

Good luck with your research

Interesting pictures of the internal layout, it looks like the cut out on the buffet counter has been infilled. I live reasonably close to the Dean Forest railway and intend going to their diesel event in a couple of weeks time. I'll look out for this coach and see if I can get some additional pictures showing different angles. I was sent 3 pictures of the actual SC9000 internal layout from the early 90's which is very similar. I'll ask the chap if I can use them on this thread but they do not look dramatically different to these.

Railtec have produced a MK1 BSOT set of transfers (their reference 3025) which I am waiting for to complete my model. 

https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=11117

A little tidying up combines with a first coat of paint and the finish line begins to loom for SC9000. I have not decided on what colour to paint the buffet area, there are only a few pictures and these all show a very light creamy/white colour. I have asked the question on the BR Coaching Stock IO group in an effort to find more pictures but in the absence of better information I am tempted to simply paint the vestibule end wall white to match the plasticard and see how it looks. I have also added 10g of lead at each end of the coach to bring the overall weight of the BSOT in line with Bachmann Mk1's. Compromises made in the conversion so far:

• Seating bays are not fully reduced to floor level to protect the intergity of the interior mold
• There is no window in the vestibule door
• The counter top is not rebated/cut out and is at a 90 degree angle to the end of the coach
• The door to the storage area is not modelled
• The single seat in the second bay of seats has been left as a twin seat

None of these seem major and with the bodyshell back in place they are virtually impossible to see and that is before the buffet counter side window gets obscured. Absent pictures to determine the specific layout of each BSOT I do'nt feel the need to do more than this. I am waiting on transfers to complete the model.

I would like a set of Hornby Commonwealth bogies for 1 of the BSOT's, I currently have 3 BSO's but these seem difficult to source. I dont believe that Hornby include them in their spares items and the obvious retailers like Peter's Spares do not stock them. Ebay currently has a set of BR1's up for sale but no Commonwealths. I'll keep my eyes open and hope that a set turn up along the way.

3 hours ago, SC55015 said:

That's interesting to see, as I only remember counters that were parallel to the walls.

Another example of the plans being ignored by the workmen undertaking the fit out I wonder?

I moved further forward today and created the partitions to divide the buffet area from the seated ares and the buffet counter from 1mm plasticard. It was all rather fiddly but seems to look OK, I have left the remains of the seating in place because I am concerned that removing it will compromise the structure of the interior. Once the glue has set I will do a little more sanding and consider which areas to paint. I say 'consider' because once the coach body is on, it is challenging to see what is inside.

I e-mailed Steve at Railtec asking him about a revised set of transfers focused on Mk1 BSOT's, Railtec 3015 does not have any SC90xx numbers for example. I'll report back once I have a response.

Partitions fabricated

Counter top and base

Partitions and counter glued in place

We are now into late summer, I cannot find anything by way of an update or anticipated delivery date either on Rapido's website or RMWeb. Can we have a progress report please?

8 hours ago, 03060 said:

I would have thought that a full replacement interior could be 3d printed to make life easier rather than just an insert, DC Resin Replicas have full 00 interiors listed on their website for EMUs and DMUs I believe.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Good point, I had not thought about a full replacement. This would also resolve the second seating bay issue where the first seat on the side opposite the buffet counter is reduced to a single seat. I am choosing to ignore this point!. Does someone want to pick up the job of contacting DC Resin Replicas? 

7 hours ago, keefer said:

BSOT layout from the BR Diagram book (originally posted in another BSOT thread, I'll have to find it though).

(I originally posted more but realised that 4 of them applied to the Mk2 BSOT, oops)

 

 

 

 

Apart from the cutting out of the first seating bays, the only pieces to add in are the buffet counter and the partition walls. As Keefer says, the work done varied almost coach by coach where absent pictures of the 'as completed' internal arrangements, it is guess work on the layout that one chooses. To put this in context, I refitted the coach last night to test that it went back together which gave me the opportunity to view the internal layout. Baring in mind that I have not yet covered over the window on the buffet counter side, it was still difficult to see much inside the coach. I will settle for a simple buffet counter to finish my first conversion.     

A little progress. I started to update the interior of the BSO along the lines described SC55015 using slightly different techniques. Step 1 comprised seperating the first and second rows of seating bays using a small razor saw. The first cut was made vertically between the first and second bays to seperate them.  Step 2 was to cut horizontally along the outsides of the interior a little above floor height. Using a combination of a craft knife, files and a little friction, I managed to extract the seating bays in small pieces. I then filed down as much of the residue as I felt comfortable with so as not to compromise the structural integrity of the interior. Step 3 was to create additional floor using 1mm plasticard cut to shape and glued in place. The glue needs to harden before I decide on how much lower to file the coach interior where, as suggested by SC55015, I will look at building the counter support on top of the remains of the seat bay which, once painted, I doubt will be visible.

• The coach floor is 1.5 mm thick. I used 1mm plasticard to create the additional flooring and glued it using Deluxe Material Rocket glue. 
• The internal dividing partitions further down the coach are 9.5mm wide. There are two of these, one either side of the walkway which I intend fabricating for the buffet area from plasticard

I have 3 BSO's that  I plan to convert and the thought of a 3D printed counter insert appeals. However I question how practical these might be given all the cutting and filing that is necessary to create the space required so I'll reserve final judgement until I have completed the first coach.

Step 1

Step 2

Step 3

On 24/08/2023 at 05:31, SC55015 said:

Here is another internal image, and is the reverse view of an earlier one I posted of a BSOT that had a yellow vestibule, a West Highland vehicle circa late August 1986. Unlike the interior image of the preserved 9000 the partition separating the passenger saloon is full height.

 

Interesting work so far on the seat bay removals, I feel more confident in starting to butcher my coach interior as a result. Having looked at my BSO again it is fairly clear that the central clip was glued in place which explains why I struggled to release the body. In summary for future reference there are 6 clips to release the bodyshell from the chassis.

Judging by the diagrams in Parkin, I reckon that an additional partition between the buffet area and the residual seating was standard on both sides of the coach. Whether pictures of other BSOT's from the 1980's can be found to verify this must be questionable but on the basis that I think adding in the partitions will strengthen the the coach, I am minded to add them to my first attempt. 

The Railtec transfer sheet 3015 looks an excellent starting point but because it covers Mk1 and Mk2 BSOT/TSOT's, it does not have the coach numbers that I want. I will contact Steve at Railtec and see if he wil create an an hoc Mk1 set of transfers.