young37215

Table 227 from 1981 says it all for today.

A few more views of 37049 at Crianlarich on the down sleeper. Intriguingly Cab Control started track power twice yesterday at the first time of asking leaving me wondering if the PSX are having a positive effect. I doubt that the Tam Valley soft start module I have bought will be here before the middle of next week meaning I have several further start ups to test the theory.

I spoke with Kevin at Coastal DCC this morning who advised that to the best of his knowledge the ALR in the PSX was to all intent and purposes a soft start. There is nothing in the PSX instructions to explain ALR so I have e-mailed DCC Specialities in the US to see if they can provide greater clarity. Having read the supporting literature about the Tam Valley start up module and for the modest £17.50 it cost, I have bought one to see if this solves my issue. I now have three potential solutions namely: Tam Valley start up module, simple wiring change to install between ESU ICU/booster and the PSX's required Further division of power districts using DPST switches, more complicated and extensive rewiring to sub divide existing power districts install resistors and switches, the best size of the resistor needs to be found through testing which unerves me hence my purchase of the Tam Valley module Watch this space, I will report my findings when I have installed the Tam Valley module

20045 shunts an S&T engineers train out of the sidings and onto the headshunt at Crianlarich where it waits for 37049 to arrive with the down sleeper. After 37049 departs 20045 exits the headshunt and heads for the Oban line.

I was out for much of yesterday so little done and no response from ESU so far. On this and another thread I have received lots of constructive counsel about the issue of power surges on start up. It does seem to be a more common occurence than I had first appreciated and not just with ESU equipment; it would be great to find a solution to cover not just my problems but most, if not all eventualities. I have bought 2 more DPST switches with a view to further dividing up the power BUS into more sub-districts to see if this works. It will be a bit of a pain installing them because it is the main fiddle yard that needs to be divided and this is all wired from a single common point. It is nothing that cannot be done with insulation joints and more power connections, just a PIA and time that I would rather spend on other modelling work. 37011 had charge of 7B02, 0606 Sighthill to Mallaig Junction Yard seen arriving at Garelochead.

check Ebay, this should answer most of your questions https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1982-Working-Railway-Timetable-Western-Region-Section-PC-Exeter-Barnstaple/353260768328?hash=item523ffb8c48:g:1IUAAOSwLq1foHEO

Hi Keith The CC manual is silent on any short circuit parameters, it is generally pretty lightweight on technical stuff fullstop. I posted the question asking what are CC short circuit parameters on Facebook 2 days ago; no responses as yet. I sent the same question to ESU Technical Support at the same time; again no response as yet. Same on the ESU forum as you have seen. I do'nt expect to be given a way to vary CC short circuit settings by ESU, however detailing what the short circuit parameters are does not seem an unreasonable request of them. If the parameters are known then designing a way to circumvent them should be possible. I have read the comments regarding the use of a resistor and switch. I think I understand what is proposed and why it might work, I just want to digest the suggestion and draw it up on a diagram to make sure I have got the required wiring correct. I also want to take counsel from someone more knowledgeable about the PSX's to understand what adaptive load reset is actually doing. My main reason for installing the circuit breakers was to benefit from this, if it does not work for me then I see little value in having them especially as you suggest, they may also be drawing power on start up. Thanks again to everyone for your continued counsel and assistance.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions. I have e-mailed ESU technical support highlighting my problem and asked them to advise what the trigger settings are for the short protection and if they are user changeable. If I can get this information then I can judge what to do next. My issue is very similar to a number of similar ones on the ESU forum so it is clearly a recurring one. Whether ESU are able or minded to do anything is, of course, another matter. I will also see what more I can find regarding PSX's adaptive load reset functionality and if it is customisable. If anyone knows the answer or can explain how ALR works I would appreciate their input here.

I have asked ESU technical support for information relating to the short circuit protection in Cab Control. ESU have not responded as yet so for now I will leave matters as they are with the PSX's in situ for a few days in the hope that ESU respond. The layout is perfectly usable once CC decides to allow track power to be started. The first southbound train of the day in 1981 was the 0700 Mallaig to Glasgow seen at Mallaig with 37081. It has been my intention to crack on with finishing the scenery on the Mallaig section as my next project but I have become distracted by the electrical issues. Maybe I should start the scenic work which might act as a pleasant distraction from the electrics.

Hi Ian The ESU forum is useful but there are more questions on it than answers! I have a thread running regarding this and I have e-mailed technical support at ESU because there are several outstanding questions along similar lines. As others have suggested, I am sure the underlying issue I am facing is a very sensitive setting on the Cab Control short circuit protection. What is measured, how to overcome it and if/how the setting might be adjusted are the sort of information I am after from ESU. I am not persuaded that a booster is the solution to my problem because once track power is on I can run trains freely without any obvious bottlenecks of power or constraints and at £200 for an ESU booster I sincerely hope that I am right. The concept of capacitors loading up power when first connected I can understand, what I am less clear about is why Cab Control treats this as a problem. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of the issue and find a solution, I am impressed with what Cab Control offers and would like to resolve this iritation. regards Rob

Another day of challenges with electrics saw the removal of the DPST switch and the creation of 2 sub power districts protected by the installation of 2 PSX circuit breakers. Re-reading the last sentence makes it sound like I have an understanding of electrical stuff which is a gross misrepresentation of reality. I am totally out of my depth and reliant on the goodwill of others to help me try and find a solution. All of the detective work so far arrives at the conclusion that the intermittent power start problem is caused by Cab Control's short circuit protection which interprets the high power draw at start up caused by the chips all grabbing power for their capacitors at the same time as a short. I need to find out what it is that CC measures and treats as a short to move forward. Having managed to extract the Grampus from the sidings, 37017 then departed in a northerly direction with the loaded wagons. The 3rd picture shows the western platform where I have added seats, adverts and waste bins which are the extent of the detail the various reference pictures I have show as being required.

Thanks but no to any loco stay alives. I have 2 coaches with lights and stay alives but these live in an electrically isolated siding so have no effect on start up. They dont get illuminated until I set the route for them to exit their designated siding. I need to understand what it is that Cab Control measures to determine a short, if I can find this out I have a chance of finding a way around the issue.

Absent knowing how long capacitors hold their charge after power is disconnected I decided to switch everything off for 30 minutes and then re-start. Annoyingly it was back to normal, track power took a dozen or more button pushes before connecting. So much for the PSX's adaptive load reset capability! I have Railcom enabled on my controller which I have read can cause issues with PSX. As a further experiment I will turn this off and see if this any effect of the situation.

I have further tested the PSX's and found that on creating a short by approaching an incorrectly set point, it is the PSX which cuts track power and not the controller. That is a relief, I was uncertain which of the two was set more sensitively. By changing the point to clear the short the auto re-start of the PSX restored power. At least something seems to work as I want!

I appreciate peoples input. I think it is clear that the sensitivity of the ESU Cab Control short circuit system is tuned considerably finer than my previous Guagemaster Prodigy which happily ran the same layout without fuss or similar issues. In between posts I have been wiring in two PSX 1 circuit breakers running software revision L to create two new sub districts. I appear to have followed the installation instructions correctly because on powering up the layout I was able to apply track power on the second attempt. I then switched everything off, waited 10 seconds and powered up again. This time track power worked on the first attempt. I am not sure if I have solved my problem with the PSX's. The spurious short has been a regular but intermittent occurence when on previous occassions I thought I had found a solution only to find a few days later that the issue resurfaced. How long does a capacitor hold on to its charge? By that I mean is my powering off and waiting 10 seconds sufficient time for the power to have discharged back to zero?

I have already tried this, admittedly only 1 DPST switch which created sections that held less locos. The split was about 10 in one section and 15 in the other. The switch made no difference, I suspect that my main fiddle yard is the cause because this is where there are typically as many as 15 locos at any time. The fiddle yard could be divided into sub districts but that would involve a lot of re-routing of wiring which I dont fancy doing if at all possible. If the PSX does what it says then I hope it will resolve the problem. What is really frustrating is the intermittency, some days I can apply track power on the first push of the start button. Other days can take 5 or 10 minutes and numerous presses of the button. If I can get an understanding of the various constituent parts that make up the problem, I think I have best chance of designing a solution. That is why I want to know what the maximum start up power draw is of a single Loksound fitted loco is.

My poor comment, there are 25 locos on the layout but rarely more than 6 actually running their sound function at any time. All locos have sound switched off before I shut down power at the end of a running session. If I inderstand correctly (which is by no means certain) there is an intial in rush of power when first switching on caused by the chips charging their capacitors? This ocurs irrespective of whether the sound is on or off and it is this spike that causes CC to trip. I'd guess the power demand would be higher if the sound was on but that is not the case here. What I am trying to calculate is the total rush is in Amps so that I can adjust the PSX settings accordingly. My layout has no power districts at present but I am open minded to installing them if I can see a clear benefit. Apart from the start up issue which arose when I changed the DCC controller at the start of the year, the layout has run without problems for 4 years with no power districts.

It must be down to my clean living life style! Alternatively it could be that I did not mention the 10 minutes of irritation and frustration that it took to connect track power before I could run trains. Fortunately from several years of trouble free operations I know that my wiring is robust and that my issues relate solely to the controller. If I had not had this experience to reassure me, I dread to think what I would be like with the short circuit problem.

a lot shorter than the siding! The Grampus rake of load 8 which was in the siding was split in two to enable it to be extracted. Picture shows the two halves about to be coupled back together. The train then sets back to the signal before taking the usual route through the station as it headed north.

I am having difficulties with applying track power using my ESU Mobile Control which is part of their Cab Control (CC) system. It appears that the initial power draw/rush of my 25 locos all fitted with Loksound chips (V3.5 x 5, V4 x 15, V5 x 5) causes CC to intermittently trip its short circuit protection. I have adjusted the CC current limit setting to the maximum of 5 Amps and CC clearly provides adequate power for my locos once I get past the initial start up issue because I am able to run trains without any problem. There is a live thread relating to CC where I have received considerable assistance with the challenges I have faced introducing CC to my layout but I dont think that the questions below are specific to CC and suspect that they are generic to any DCC system hence the start of a new thread. The potential solution to CC spuriously tripping its short circuit protection looks like a PSX circuit breaker which purports to include logic entitled 'adaptive load reset' (ALR) to manage initial power rush on start up. I am intrigued at this claim, I am not electrically minded and struggle to see how the PSX can stop the CC sensing whatever it is that upsets it. I have read comment about 'soft start' and am guessing that the PSX's ALR incorporates a variation on this. Can anyone explain soft start or how the PSX ALR works? In trying to logically find a solution and because I want to get the correct setting for the adjustable trip level settings on the circuit breaker, I want to understand how much power an ESU sound chipped loco initially draws when power is first applied. CC does not incorporate any means of measuring power demand on start up; can anyone give me an indication? Any guidance gratefully received.

Railmatch RM2304 warning panel yellow covers 60's to mid 80's. Railmatch also do a faded yellow RM452 in enamel. I have a 30 year old bottle of this which is still in fine working order!

PSX claim that their circuit breaker has adaptive load reset which will should address the spike in power on start up. I have managed to get my hands on two scrounged temporarily from a friend meaning its more time to be spent on wires again today! Having become thoroughly hacked off with the electrical challenges and learning opportunities, I gave up and ran some trains instead. 37017 shuffles loaded Grampus out of the siding at Crianlarich.

37022, the 7 is the give away

The driving force is to stop the spurious shorts Cab Control senses on applying track power which probably arises because the short circuit protection treats the start up power surge as a short and cuts out. I understand that your description of typical power districts is the normal reason for their creation and would have installed circuit breakers to my 2 districts but at £40 a time for PSX solid state ones I considered that the cost benefit did not stack up. I am still not certain that a booster is the solution, if it is then I will buy an ESU one so that I have all products for control from one manufacturer. The spurious short is intermittent and once power is up and running CC's 7 Amp output has no problem in providing sufficent power for all of my locos. The question I need to find the answer to is how do I persuade CC that the start up power draw is not a short! It is really frustrating because on some occassions I can apply track power straight away, on others it takes many attempts before CC allows power. I am currently investigating a PSX circuit breaker again which additionally claims to have in built capability to determine if the short is a real one or simply the initial in rush on start up. Watch this space....

Mmm, several hours later and the DPST switch is installed. Electrically there are now two distinct sections with power on/off capability on one of them. On first start up of track power the Cab Control spurious short was still evident, subsequently it was not. I fear the power separation into 2 districts is not the solution I hoped for. I have no idea what to do next, some head scratching is required. Pictures show the DPST switch with both + and - wires cut as described by ISW.