young37215

This looks great. I'm following with interest.

 

How are you going to link the lower and upper levels?

The penultimate photo of my last post shows the northern end of the fiddle yard. The upper level line is the one on which the 37 is currently sat and which will rise up a 1 in 40 gradient about 100mm to the upper level. At present it is proving useful as a storage siding! 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_01_2018/post-24755-0-38827400-1515741386_thumb.jpg

On review, my last post was not very clear and factually inaccurate which reflected my frazzled state of mind when I drafted it. To clarify, the fiddle yard has 11 through roads holding a maximum number of 11 trains at any one time. My problem was that when the yard is full I could not run locos round their train and trying to solve the conundrum frustrated me; I could not see a solution. 

The design of the fiddle yard had two main aims:

• provide the storage required to run the WHL WTT, 
• minimise shunting requirements to keep derailment risk as low as possible,

The fiddle yard delivers both although the northern exit point creates something of a bottleneck.   

Oban trains have their own entry/exit point which is linked to the rest of the yard.

The solution was simple enough, leave the layout alone for a day or so and the answer becomes clear. I extended 3 sidings at the northern end creating a store for freight stock away from the through roads.  

It all now works, a veritable feast of 37's line up in the fiddle yard all facing in the right direction for the start of a days operations. 

Does anyone have any better shots of the ex Mk1 RMB, the former 1817 and later DB977078 which resided at Crianlarich for many years please?

 

I have found this one https://www.flickr.com/photos/35138806@N08/3515115343 but would like to find a better shot of the rather home made looking number panel at the left hand end.  Also did this coach ever actually leave the yard at any time or was it a fairly permanent resident until it was binned?

Whilst wandering through Ernie Brack's wonderful WHL Flickr site, I found a picture of Bridge of Orchy which answers the 'did the coaches ever move' part of the above question. The picture is undated although on the basis that I cannot see any semaphores, I am inclined to think it is after 1986.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/36536540725/in/album-72157684935256154/

Running the 1982 WHL timetable through the 4 stations laid to date causes capacity constraints in the fiddle yard. This is because any train scheduled north of Crianlarich is currently held here. Depending on the time of day, the maximum number of trains in fiddle yard is 10 with only 9 through roads capable of holding full length trains hence the problem. There are no storage sidings for full length trains (nor is there any space for them), only the 9 through roads. The short sidings at either end of the fiddle yard can hold a couple of locos or just a few wagons.

From left to right in the picture below, 3 roads hold Oban services, the middle 4 roads hold services south of Garelochead and the final 4 for trains north of Crianlarich which cannot easily be expanded.

Oban trains have their own separate access point to the fiddle yard on leaving Crianlarich and have no capacity constraints.

By way of an upper level I intend adding Fort William and Glenfinnan stations plus Mallaig Junction and Fort William yards. This will reduce the number of trains in the fiddle yard at any time but I cannot work out if this will make the fiddle yard work. Ideally I would have an intermediate station such as Bridge of Orchy and/or another fiddle yard but I do not have the space unless I give up one of the planned locations. For now I will just have to keep scratching my head and try to work out a solution.

On a more positive note, Ardlui signal box has arrived.  

The point motorisation efforts are beginning to pay a dividend because it is so much easier running trains with the Crianlarich points motorised. Shunting the 2 yards is fun and trains on the running line that cross can all be prototypically controlled from a Megapoints Multipanel which effectively functions as a signal box.

I am starting to build up the scenery surrounding Crianlarich, the first step is to create the gradients at each end of the station. From the south, trains drop down a shallow gradient into Crianlarich and on departure both lines continue to fall. Given my preference for a flat baseboard, I have to create the gradients which I generally do by the use of 3mm cork sheets built up as required. This will all get hidden away when I get around to ballasting, for now I just want to ensure that I am not creating any derailment hotspots.

27105 reverses wagons into the west side yard from the headshunt

37014 arrives from the south with a northbound freight

37108 waits departure with the northbound sleeper

37039 arrives with the first Glasgow bound service from Oban.

The real thing, 37081 does the same as 37039 in 1984

LMS observation salon on the Oban train as ran in the mid 1980's during the summer months

Newly converted to provide ETH for the mark 3 sleepers, ex-works 37401 on test arrives with an observation salon

Brrrrr - no ETH

I think you will find that it is an ETH fitted loco, it also carries its old number 37424. Of course that does not mean the supply is functional but the loco should be capable of providing electric supply!

Finally all of the pointwork at Crianlarich has been motorised and electrofrogs duly wired up. It has been a beast of a job, 9 points at the southern end have taken what seems like forever: in reality it is about 3 months. My first experience with electrofrog points and servo driven point motors has had many 'learning opportunities' along the way and it would be fair to say that if there is an error that can be made, I have made it in the past 3 months!

I can now start on the scenic work at Crianlarich but first, by way of some light relief, I intend a few days running to prove that everything works and for a little light relief.

In the meantime a happy modelling new year to everyone.

37085 awaits departure from Crianlarich with southbound alumina empties

20 and 37 at Crianlarich

37022 approaches Crianlarich with the southbound sleeper service

37022 arrives at Crianlarich

A new purchase leaves Arrochar with empty ballast wagons, I need to decide on a WHL loco to re-number this to 

Being able to fit just a loop to locos was one of the reasons I considered Sprat and Winkle.  As far as I can see the loop itself can be relatively unobtrusive compared to some other methods, allowing you to fit full buffer beam details. (I'm talking mostly diesel here).  I was also looking at the possibility of using the loop to couple to the hook on a tension lock coupling and having these at the end of rakes of coaches. Has anyone tried this?  Passenger trains will be not change their consist very often if at all.  That would leave me to identify locos that would be used on freight workings and fit just loops to both ends of them. 

 

I am also busy trying to work logically through freight wagons/trains seeing if I can get away with most wagons having a hook at just one end but still allowing shunting flexibility.  Some wagons would need to have hooks at both ends but I think most could do without.

I have replaced the tension locks on most of my loco fleet with loops made from 0.8mm brass. As you have identified, this allows detailing of the bufferbeams although space is still tight. Invariably I end up having to forgo the steam heat boiler pipe. The link below shows one of my locos as a before and after.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1892/entry-16760-second-37-detailing-completed/

The other negative I have found is when shunting on curved track where I have suffered many derailments. From what I can see this is due to the buffers which, absent the tension lock, actually perform as they do in real life but cannot cope with the curvature and lock together. As yet I have not found a solution to this issue; fortunately my new layout has very few curved sidings!

Yesterday I was rummaging through the drawer pedestal of my workbench and came across a box marked 'Hornby 25 bits'. In it was two bogies from a Hornby 25 of which one was still assembled to its ringfield motor. Also in the box was a partially made up HL Lo-Rider gearbox and all its bit and pieces. I had completely forgotten I had them, I just had this idea that it was possible to use AGW wheels with a Hornby Class 25 loco.

Well it is but you have to replace the ringfield motor with the HL gearbox. The design includes the provision for re-using the Hornby cosmetic bogies.

Sorry if I mislead you.

Regards

Not a problem given the ETHEL is non motorised meaning the issue does not arise. The question as to whether the AGW wheels will do the job on the Hornby chassis is one I have yet to answer to my satisfaction. 

The AGW catalogue number for Hornby Class 25 replacement wheels is 4800/3

This shows as Bachmann wheel replacement, not Hornby in the current catalogue. I will check with AGW next week to confirm. 

AGW do wheels for this model in 00/EM and P4. A simple conversion.

Thanks for the info, I will give them a call as the Hornby 25 is not listed in their 00 catalogue.

The additional ballasting has proved very effective, the ETHEL is now completed and runs happily on code 100 track. Unfortunately it still does not like code 75 and derails with great regularity. It seems that I am back to my original issue, replace the wheels or get the flanges on the existing wheel trimmed down.

My efforts to source alternative wheels have not borne any fruit and I am not happy or confident to set about the wheel flanges with a file. So unless there is a kind soul with a lathe and a little time on their hands who is prepared to help me, it looks like I will have to wait for Ultrascale to have a production run.  

Rob

In happier times, the ETHEL running doing what it was converted to do.

It has been a frustrating few weeks with the motorisation of the pointwork at the southern end of Crianlarich. There are a total of 9 points and I intend motorising all of them. I designed the southern end around two baseboards, 5 points on one and 4 on the other so that I could install the motors on the workbench and simply drop the board into place. Given that each point comprises 4 wires plus servo cable, I wanted to secure everything to avoid the undignified scramble of trying to do this from underneath the boards. Board 1 went pretty smoothly taking only a few hours of work and is working well. Pictured on the workbench before addition of all wiring gives some idea of the amount of wiring involved. 

Pictured in situ from underneath with all wires in place and power BUS attached.

Board 2 has been a right basket case due largely to several schoolboy errors and remains work in progress. I hope that I have identified all of the problems and that I can get this installed during the week ahead.  

Assuming you have the points wired and working correctly, I think you can do this very simply (and cheaply) using the first picture in entry 23 from the link I made earlier.

Step 1, Power connection. You can see where I have connected power to the electrofrog crossing. This provides power to the crossing whether DCC or DC.  

Step 2. For the crossing frog polarity switching. First link the frog from the point in the top left of the picture to the crossing frog on the bottom right. Then link the frog from the point in the bottom right to the crossing frog on the top left. You need only use 2 wires, 1 to connect each crossing frog which results in a system that changing points polarity also changes crossing frog polarity at the same time. 

I found that once I had grasped the concept of setting a route, not just a point, it all became a lot easier to understand. The method requires you to set the routes correctly otherwise you will get a short. To date it has worked very efficiently for me.    

It sounds just like what I went through with wiring a crossing which you can find in the link below. here are several pictures which might help

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123006-guidance-on-wiring-my-diamond/

The trial and tribulations continue! I have adjusted the back to backs to 14.8 mm and run the two bogies by hand. They appear to run better although there is some contact by the flanges across points. Unfortunately because the bogies are rubbing against the chassis, I can not run the complete loco to really test if the adjustments have solved my headache. I need to do some filing to smooth the chassis/bogie interface and hope that this may resolve the problem.

On the positive side I have managed to add ballast to the fuel tank today which has greatly increased the weight and should improve running once I sort the wheels. One point of clarity from me, the loco has had the engine removed and is unpowered with no electrical content whatsoever. All of the comments about re-engining etc make interesting reading but are not what I intend doing.

I am grateful to all who have contributed.

This is correct, and there is also the possibility of a hardware upgrade (new for old - little bit more expensive) - depending of what version you own. 

I like the idea of quiet servos so I upgraded all 4 boards I have.

I get quite a bit of chatter from my servos and like the thought of powering them down after they have moved. Can anyone advise what the hardware upgrade comprises and what it costs?. I am running the servo controller version 1.8 which I purchased in early 2017

thanks Rob

Thanks to those for their quick response. I have to admit that I did not do the conversion, the loco was an Ebay purchase a few years ago and came with engine and all gearing to the wheels removed. Not a problem as such although I do need to find a better way to increase the overall weight because, even before my current problem, it was prone to derail which I have always attributed to it being too light.

The wheels are simply sat in the bogie and held in place in Hornbys usual manner for the class 25. 

I consider this unconventional because the axles do not have the usual pointed end and there are no locating holes in the bogie hence why I think I could use other wheelsets of a similar size. I have tried this and trashed a set of wheels by filing down the pointed ends but they did not sit well in the bogie. I have also tried create a locating hole in the bogie frame with my tyre tuner but the plastic is too hard for the tuner to penetrate. Given the locos age, I do not want to mess around with exposing the bogie to heat in the hope that this enables the tuner to drill into the bogie. 

I have checked the back to backs and all are within the range of 15.3mm to 15.7mm. It is definitely the flanges that are causing derailments, this is clearly visible on point frogs and frequently elsewhere. My thinking at present is to try filing the flanges down and see if I can improve things. If not then from what I have learnt so far, I might have to wait the 8 months for Ultrascale!

Hi

I have an old 00 guage Hornby class 25 reworked as an ETHEL. Having moved to Peco finescale track, I find that the wheels are too large and need replacing. From scanning RMWeb I was inclined to splash out on Ultrascale but their website tells me they have an 8 month lead time. Good luck to them if they have that large an order book but I will not be adding to it!  

I would appreciate counsel on what other options I should consider.

Thanks Rob 

That's correct, the 'day coaches' were from  Qst - FW (with sleepers and aircons), FW-Ml (with 1 aircon), Ml-FW (likewise) and FW-Qst with the sleepers and aircons. 

 

 

Booked move, the sleepers and the Mk2d BSO were left at Fort William and the declassified Mk2e FO plus the two (or sometimes more depending on season) Mk1's worked the 14.05 FW - Mallaig and the 15.50 return. This happened from the summer timetable '85 through to the end of hauled services when the sleeper became its own train separate from the normal WHL services. This meant that the 15.50 ex Mallaig was effectively a through train to Glasgow with a seated coach for Euston.

 

Note that the tanks attached to the afternoon (16.05 ex FW) Mallaig were TTV's or TTG's, not TTA's. This is because, aside from the sleeper, all WHL services were vacuum braked.

I attach a scan of the May 1984 WTT which is the most up to date that I have. This was the first year that the FW to Mallaig services were run as independent trains with separate stock. In previous years for as far back as I have ever looked and with the exception of the teatime mixed service, Mallaig trains had been a through service from Glasgow.

Interestingly all passenger services except the sleeper and 14.05 FW to Mallaig are shown as VB/SH whereas the sleeper and the 1405 (plus its return on the 1550 ex Mallaig) have no designation which back up 37409's observations.  

The air conditioned sleepers and Mk2's from the down sleeper were detached at FW and usually sat in the siding before forming the return working that evening. Depending on the date, I believe sleeper cleaning took place in the station or at Tom na faire, the depot area at FW.  Again depending on the year and as others have noted in this thread, sometimes the Mk1's from the sleeper were used as part of other service trains, other times the whole sleeper rake was simply shunted into the siding to wait the return working that evening. The MK1's that were removed from the up working at Glasgow returned to FW the following day on the down sleeper.

As John Upton has said, occasionally the Mk2 air conditioned stock got an outing to Mallaig in times of stock shortage. I don't think this was that common but, like with class 20's on Mallaig passenger service, there are a disproportionate number of pictures and videos of the air cons that can be found on the web. There is a clip of a  Mk2 on a Mallaig service at 4 minutes in the attached link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkjw7kssXoU

In terms of freight workings I recommend that you keep your eyes open for a working timetable, they crop up on Ebay from time to time. WTT's are an invaluable reference source. My latest one is for 1986, if you want I will scan the 2 pages that make up the WHL and post on here.

regards Rob

Sprinters took over on the WHL the full timetable excluding the sleeper in January 1989.

In addition to the internet, I suggest that you seek out some books as sources of reference to help with your planning. There are a number which would help you plan a WHL based layout and provide examples of liveries and locos. Most are out of print but fairly easy to obtain through Ebay and/or Amazon. Some of my favourites focusing on 1980 operations for example are: 

The West Highland Extension by Tom Noble 1989 published by OPC

Scottish class 37's 1, 2 and 3 by Nick Meskell, early 2000's published by Train Crazy

British Rail at work; Scotrail by Colin Boocock 1986 published by Ian Allan

regards Rob

When finished my west highland line layout will have in excess of 50 servos fitted under the baseboard. In addition there will be over 30 micro switches controlling point frog polarity. It will enough of a job fitting everything, I want to minimise the chance of problems down the road. My research through the RMWeb forum has found 3 types of bracket in addition to the aluminium conduit option:

Alurailtech, an aluminium bracket kit costing £2.80 pictured below (NB microswitch is not included)

Fair Price Models, a laser cut wood bracket kit costing £1.30 pictured below (NB microswitch is not included)

MERG, a plastic bracket

I am drawn to the aluminium bracket because it appears the most robust, however it is also the most expensive. To test I bought one and Ricky Waldron was kind enough to send me a complimentary Fair Price Models bracket so I tried this option as well.

The Alurailtech bracket measures 30 x 50 mm and is 60mm deep. It was easy and quick to use, 2 bolts secure the servo and 2 screws secure the micro switch lugs. The holes on the microswitch need increasing in size to 3mm which was easily done with a 3mm drill. The microswitch clips onto the 2 lugs which are adjustable so that it is operated by the servo horn. A 70mm piece of piano wire feeds through the fulcrum on the top of the bracket and attaches to the servo horn. 4 screw holes enable the bracket to be secured to the baseboard although I found 2 were more than adequate to keep it in place. Job done, when the servo was connected to the Megapoints servo controller, it worked perfectly.  

The Fair Price Models bracket is slightly smaller (40 mm square, 45 mm deep) comprises 4 parts which require gluing together. This was simple enough, I just had to let the glue set before moving on. The screws provided felt a little chunky which proved to be the case because when I attached the servo on to the bracket with the 2 screws provided with the kit the wood split. No major problem, the servo was held securely and I am sure with a finer screw it would not have split.

The microswitch mount was more difficult, the mounting point felt too narrow to allow the servo horn the range of motion it needed to change a point and I ended up fitting the bracket to the baseboard without a microswitch. The bracket was connected to the baseboard again using only 2 of 4 screw holes and the servo functioned perfectly when attached to the servo controller.

Summary

Whilst both brackets functioned well, my preference is the more expensive Alurailtech option because I consider it robust and quickest to deploy. Given my priority is certainty, the higher cost of £2.80 is a price I am prepared to pay. That said I would have no problem using the Fair Price Models bracket for points where frog switching is not required or semaphores. 

A little more work on Arrochar has completed the platform although it requires a little fine tuning to enable trains to pass without grazing the platform edge and painting. In time I will add coping stones to the platform edge and the pink/brown gravel which is so much a feature of the line to the rest of the platform surface. Although still rudimentary, with the station buildings in place Arrochar increasingly looks and feels like part of the west highland line.

In addition to Arrochar, Ardlui and Crianlarich have also had their underpass steps installed.  

Oban trains pass at Arrochar

Crianlarich underpass. The steps from the platform are aligned to the tunnel under the track.

The original post raises a good question about the products suitability for modellers mechanical cutting. I am interested to learn if this sort of tool can also be used to cut plasticard and the like. Try as I might, I can not get the level of precision I seek by using the traditional knife and ruler approach. I think there is a disc that enables the cutting of plastics; does anyone have experience of using this sort of tool for cutting plastics?