Caley Jim

Lovely wagons Jerry. I like your attitude, to be checking the numbers on 2mm wagons would seem to be the height of pedantry.

 

Don

I agree, Don, but I still paint them on.  The other issue for me is that there is no known register of CR wagon numbers, so you just have to pick one at random from within the numbers allotted to that type of wagon or one from a photo.     Only a pedant is going to look up the numbers and comment!

Jim

Looks like your engines like peaty water Jim!

 

Tim

'Peaty' would be much browner than that!  It was an attempt to simulate the sludgy appearance of water that has come off a burn up the hill somewhere and develops a light brown growth of algae along the sides of the tank.  Not wholly successful!  

I recall being on holiday with my parents in North Erridale, Wester Ross, in the late '60's, where the water out the tap, which came from a spring up the hill behind the B&B, looked like it had come out of a bottle of uisce beatha (water of life)!

Jim

After a long hiatus I thought it was time I did some more work on the layout, so I've built the water tank.  Details of its construction are in the workbench thread of this area.

The tank itself is an etch as it the drain and the timber base is built up from styrene strip.

Two shots of it in situ with 391 about to top up.

It has still to be fixed down and bedded in.

Jim

Water tank now completed.   Not quite in the same league as Tim's current project, though.  

And a couple of shots of it in situ with 391 about to top up :-

Still to be fixed in place and bedded in.   I'll probably try and get it a little nearer the turntable to give a little more clearance between the corner and the track leading to the exchange sidings (in the foreground of the last picture).

Jim

Just a follow up question to this if I may. I have just joined the association - rejoined really after about 30 years away! - so can now buy from the association shops. Have not yet made an order, but was just wondering if the wagon kit(s) referred to here were ones selected as being the simpler ones to construct? If so then that may influence what I order as a first kit so as to ease myself back into finescale after the time away working in N, OO and OO9.

It depends on what your skill levels are. Unless you are experienced in etched kit construction it might be better to start with one of these or another plastic bodied kit as then you will only have the underframe to solder up and for that i would pick one with basic brake gear e.g. 2 shoe Morton.  Some of the underframes for more modern stock are more complex (not that i've built any of them - 'modern' means post 1914 for me!).  Some of the etched body kits are quite complex, even for older stock, and involve a lot of small detail parts.  Having said that, most are designed to be as straight forward as possible to build.

Jim

Progress on the water tank.

Base painted; drain assembled and painted (needs more dirtying); pipes fitted and painted and the tank and base united.   Only the bag and valve operating chain to make, fit and paint and then several layers of polyurethane varnish to pour on for the 'water'.

Jim

Feeling guilty at not having done much to the layout of late, I have spent the last few evenings building the water tank which will sit beside the turntable on Kirkallanmuir.

The painted tank and the base ready for painting.

The tank sides are an etch with a piece of 40thou styrene on the bottom with the edges rounded off and a false top of 15thou.   The two wee holes are for the inlet and overflow pipes and there will be an outlet pipe, with a bag on it, projecting from the underside of the tank, below the valve lever.

The uprights of the base are 50 x 50thou (scale 7½" x 7½"), made by laminating 10thou onto two adjacent sides of some 40 x 40 thou.  the diagonals are 30 x 30thou and the top beams 40 x 60thou.

The tank sitting on the base.

I built an identical one for the group layout 'Sauchenford', but painted grey, which can be seen lurking in the background of some photos of that layout.  In that case I fixed the tank on before painting the base.  I'm not making that mistake this time!      Painting the inner timbers was a nightmare!  At least I can get access from the top this time.

Jim

Just remember whose model it is and therefore who has to be happy with it in the first instance!  

Jim  (see the first line of my signature)

Are drop in wheels available for the newer Farish class 20 ?

 

If I am allowed 2 questions my next one is ...

 

Some associations have a starter kit - a wagon usually - does the association have something like that for potentional dabblers ?

 

I really doubt I am allowed 3 questions but ...

 

Is there a sample PDF available of the association journal / magazine ?

The answers to your first two questions are 'yes' and 'yes'.   Like all of our wide range of components the drop-in wheels are only available to members, but the starter kits, comprising a wagon/van and enough rail and sleepers to make a short length of Easitrac to sit it on, can be purchased from the Association stand at exhibitions, where you can also get free back numbers of the 2MM Magazine.

Jim

I have managed to get a couple of the excellent 7mm coreless motors that Farish now use via their spares dept. that would drop even further between the wheels. The problem you may have with that four wheel tender which I came up against when looking at the Ilfracombe goods with original tender is the length of the motor - both the Lawton and Farish motors are quite long. The Lawton 6mm motor would fit comfortably but in the experiments I've done it severely lacks torque.

Interesting.  What length is the Farish motor and how easy are they to get hold of?  In the past I've fitted a Faulhaber 0816 (8mm diam, 16mm long) into a four wheel tender and still had room to have a spur gear reduction to drop the drive shaft below the footplate ( I have an aversion to drive shafts going through the middle of cabs!  ).  The whole arrangement only took up 25mm length.

Jim

Part of my problem is that my favourite bit of railway modelling, by far, is wagon building...........

 

I have to confess to suffering from the same addiction, having a rolling stock list of over 100, which only includes 10 passenger vehicles.   At least in 2FS they don't take up as much space as in 7mm!  I am strenuously resisting buying any of the LNWR kits advertised with the latest 2mm Magazine.    

I'm awaiting delivery of a test etch containing 7 different CR wagon types, so building them will keep me busy (and delay further work on Kirkallanmuir  ) for a wee while!  i reckon that K'muir will need around 50 mineral wagons to make the colliery sidings look well used so, with only just under 40 at the moment which could be considered appropriate, there is a wee bit to go.

Jim

Nah Jim, the dentistry is just a hobby!

But a very good source of modelling tools!  Wouldn't be without my No15 K-flex files or my Adams pliers!

Jim

It is a real pleasure seeing these photos showing the build of the P2. Rather above my skill level but very inspiring.

What you must remember is that Tim has spent his professional life sculpting materials, in both their plastic and solid states, into complex non-geometric shapes, often in somewhat restricted locations!

Jim

The tailor's dummies almost look like Slater's 2 mm scale figures!

 

The guy in the peaked cap behind the horse looks pretty 'static' too!

Nice one Tim!

And a Happy Christmas from me too.  :-)

Jim

Funnily enough, I was talking about this very thing the other day with a fellow GC nut. He got the dimensions for a wagon from official sources - I rather think the diagram book. Then he was given a Guy Hemingway sketch based on actual measurements of a real vehicle of the type. There were a number of quite major differences - for example I think off hand the length was 3" more than it 'should' have been. So what does one believe? Personally, I'd back Mr Hemingway, who was there to see it and had a tape measure. 

Diagram books tended to quote the internal dimensions of a wagon.  Remember, they were produced for the benefit of the railways operating employees, so that they could specify a suitable wagon for the load in hand.  CR wagon diagrams include both external and internal dimensions.

Jim

I too have one of those NSR vans to build at some point, having asked a few people about what colour paint to use and it was suggested that Caledonian Goods Brown / Purple was a close-ish match.

Not sure which Caledonian colour you are referring to here.  CR freight stock was painted red oxide, while NPCS was generally a slightly browner shade than the purple brown used for coaches.  Two distinctly different colours.

Jim

Could anyone advise, please.

I'm not familiar with the loco, but it looks logical to me.  I presume there was a tab on the bracket to locate in a slot in the frames and they certainly wouldn't be the other way up and there would be no point in them going to the inside!

Jim

Again more of a 'what's just come off my workbench (AKA desk)'.

When fellow member of the Forth and Clyde Area Group Colin Brady passed away suddenly earlier this year, the group took on the task of dealing with his modelling things.  Among them were 6 of the resin kits I produced many years ago for CR Dia 21 mineral wagons which Colin had partly built but not finished.   I obtained them and have just finished them off.  They needed some repairs and refurbishment as some of them had suffered a bit of damage.  These repairs are not too obvious, especially once they are painted and weathered with a liberal coating of 'coal dust' (black powder paint).  4 of them have been modelled as 'empties', returning from the docks loaded with pit props and the other two loaded with coal.  They were painted with a new tin of Precision Paints 'CR Wagon Oxide', but it seems to be a little darker and browner than the previous tin I had dating from the 70's and which had finally got to the 'unusable stage.

Seen here sitting in Kirkallanmuir exchange sidings.

Jim

 

 

I do feel that we do have to include some relief on some things that if true scale was adopted simply wouldn't be seen.  As well as buildings, I think that wagon strapping would look flat from normal viewing distances but we all seem happy and expect to have that raised from the planked areas of a wagon, if it were flat it just wouldn't look right.  I think that part of the reason for that is simply that we (or others) tend to take photos of our models which enable a view much closer than we could achieve with the naked eye.

I'm with Ian on this one.  Apart from anything else, using layers of slates allows you to have the odd one slightly raised, with a corner broken, slipped, or missing all together.  All of these in moderation help to take the 'perfect' look off the building.  Of course if you want a really dilapidated roof you can go to town with it!  the roof is, after all, the most prominent part of a model building in most circumstances.

Jim

. Weirdly, the inner bogie wheel set fits perfectly, however, the outer wheels set bows the bogie sides outwards and hence doesn't spin nicely.  

Have you compared the length of the new axles with the ones you took out? If there's not much in it, i believe you can solve the problem by giving the bogie sides a squeeze in with the axle in place.  this will drive the pinpoints further into the plastic and when you release the sides, the axle will spin better.  I've never had to do this myself, never having rewheeled any rtr vehicles.

Jim

What would my new, non-judgemental chums like to see? 

Anything and everything as far as I'm concerned, but get your priorities right - wait until after the game!!  :-)

Jim W

Can anyone help? The vans I am modelling would have been newly introduced in the timeframe modelled. Did the NB vans' colour fade over time? Did the paint colours change after the turn of the century, am I being a colour pedant and should just get on with it?

I recall hearing a story of members of the LNER Society who had found the 'recipe' for LNER wagon grey and got hold of an old retired painter from Doncaster works.  They presented him with the ingredients and asked him to show them how he mixed the paint.  He started taking a shovelful of one pigment and then some of another when they said to him "Hold on.  How much of each pigment did you use?"  His reply was, "Oh! we didn't measure anything!  We were only painting wagons after all.  The bosses were only fussy about the colour of the top link locos!".  So grey wagons could be a variety of shades, even different from day to day coming out of the works depending on the mix.  Plus, as Steve has said, the smokey atmosphere in which they operated affected the pigments of the day.  So, yes, you are being a colour pedant and, just get on with it!      After all, who is there that can tell you exactly what shade of grey they were!   

Jim

Unfortunately Caley Jim's hand painted  2mm Caledonian crests set a rather high bar!

Thanks, Angus and sorry to do that to you!

Jim

Lots of comments about 2FS including comparing it with the 4mm scale 'war of gauges' - not a comparison I would agree to and made that clear to the person putting the question to me!

I fully agree.  Finescale (in any scale) is a 'state of mind' and doesn't necessarily relate to the track standards you adopt, though that state of mind makes you want to use those closest to and best portraying the prototype.   And, yes, it is your model and it's up to you how you do it.  ;-)

Jim

Do you have any concerns over the fastness of the colours on computer-printed texture papers, Jim? I ask because a friend made a number of buildings in 4mm using the downloadable sheets from Scalescenes and found they faded badly over time, even though they weren't exposed to direct sunlight.

 

Steve

I think it depends on the ink used and the paper.  Brian Taylor of Smart Models recommends using matt photographic paper to print on  He had two versions of one of his kits at Perth, one printed on 80gsm paper and the other on matt photo paper.  The difference, not only in the detail, but also in the colour was quite noticeable.   the reason is that on plain paper the inks tend to run together to a small extent, while this doesn't happen on the photo paper.

Below are a some photos of the Station, Signal box and Goods shed roofs on Connerburn, all done with 80gsm strips.

Jim