Evertrainz

Sorry - the CAD for the whole van or were you referring to the smaller detail metal bits?

I don't own a single (physical!) model myself so I wouldn't be able to test it myself, do either of the kit companies have a suitable underframe? As mentioned somewhere above this wagon was an oddball at 18ft9in headstocks, 11ft wb. and 7ft 4.5inch headstock width. I might be wrong but to my knowledge the only Derby clasp brake + chassis offered is Rumney Models but not sure how that works out for the elongated running gear and headstocks. I can work up a model (after I finish the base model) that would fit nicely on the basic headstock dimensions mentioned above. If you see the door latch gear this might be a casualty of the 3D printer, as such fine detail would surely be lost. I can easily convert this apparatus to a CAD file so that those who are familiar with etching and all that physical magic can work something out. Also might be the case for the sliding rails under the doors - from what I've gathered Shapeways increases the price when more such smaller details are present. I will start a separate topic in 3D printing if sufficient interest is gathered, but so far I can see a few things: 1. Chassis and underframe would be separate, as would OLEOs and couplers (screw not instanter) 2. The door latch gear might be better suited for "etching" or other sorts of metal magic that I've got no business in 3. The door slide rails at the bottom might need to be "metalled" up as well - looks like a matter of a few metal strips and some very small metal bits folded 90 degrees in the render I've attached? How have Bachmann and other model companies done such details on their wagons? What are your guys' thoughts on this?

Looking online it doesn't look like it's exactly cheap to print a wagon body: https://www.shapeways.com/product/YHGVZVHSS/lnwr-van . Add to that the cost of sourcing a separate solebar and chassis (mine would indeed be too "thin" for printing), seems a bit excessive for a wagon. Would people still be interested?

Computer thingy Although since it’s a relatively simple model I could try and convert a 3D printable model. I don’t think sliding doors would be possible though!

Fixed the running gear - my model for hooded Timken bearings is on the other PC (along with label clip, builder plate, solebar rivets etc) so I'll port them over when I get the chance. Also I didn't want to point this out but these wagons had the Derby type of clasp brakegear opposed to the LMS-with-BR-shoes I've used but I honestly believe nobody would notice in use I'm aware of the glass traffic vans being longer, it's much easier to stretch the van running gear and its panels by a feet or two along the length than shorten the width of the curved roof, end panels, door roller apparatus, solebar, etc. which would take the bulk of the conversion work (due to dealing with curves of the roof). Also - here's another render, the wagon nearing completion. Staged based off a shot on Paul Bartlett's site showing the van with doors open in the Chapeltown facility.

Honestly I would have thought vans were sealed from the start, yesterday I'd read through the accident report of the stillage that sadly caused the tragic death of the driver, and withdrawal, of 83003. It was from one of these Izal palvans in the consist quoted as one of the "short wheelbase" vans - lacking steel raves on the bottom to prevent loads from sliding out. Although I would have thought fencing would generally be enough, the report states the fencing was cut at various sites in the area. Shots of the aforementioned Sheffield industrial film appear in this thread here: http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_1101038-Coventry-Climax.html . On the sliding door panel that bears the XP marking there's some more branding, I can't quite make it out. Anyone have ideas? Would anyone happen to know when these vans were repainted out of green, if ever, and whether the Dagenham-Halewood would have looked like an... interesting... consist made up of electric blue, Ford navy blue, and Izal green? Shots of the train when first introduced (1964?) are rare, especially in color, so most of what I've found is inconclusive.

So they could have been blocked out as a train of Izal stock...... Would these vans (and any vans in general at the time) have been secured with a padlock? In pictures of vans at the time I only see the securing pin and no locks to keep thieves out. Probably more relevant in this world now – the contents of these vans in a block train might lead to another great train robbery

Hi all I've quickly worked on a model of an Izal diag 1/221 Palvan, and I've got a number of questions. How would the green shade of paint be described, as-built? When transferred to Halewood - Dagenham traffic would they be painted freight bauxite, or the Ford blue color? Where would these vans realistically have worked? Was it a confined traffic or could they have been found anywhere in the region? Did the vans feature the Izal logo on all vans originally? Ford logo upon transfer? Regarding the model here, I'm aware that the leaf springs are the wrong type for as-built condition. I'll have to create the proper springs once I find a good side-on shot. It's missing a lot of things and needs its door securing items and chains. Bottom lip railing is missing the door track guards. At first I had thought this would be an easy modification for the diag. 1/225 palvans but unfortunately it looks like the similar glass traffic palvans were a couple inches less wide so it's a fair bit more work to convert.

Hello, thank you for your kind words. I have considered making available on Shapeways. But the problem is that the cost would not be worth it for most. Although it does make me wonder how much a plain bodyshell would cost in their cheapest material.. I might give it a try and see how much it runs for the 83 shell, as there's already an 85.

Ah - I think you’re right. So the change end and isolation switch perhaps.

In a top view elevation diagram of a dissected AL1 there is a box to the left of the driver’s seat between the wall labeled “ATC CO switch” that looks like it sits atop the heaters. I’m not sure what “CO” means but I do know that throughout the whole document AWS is referred as ATC. Does anyone know what it would be?

And here you can just make out the "modern" equipment fitted to 40153, which was pictured (D353) in one of the night shots above with the earlier equipment. https://www.flickr.com/photos/35476094@N04/8683312867/ Strange!

When developing a 3D model of a loco cab (around 1960s era) I have stumbled upon a bit of confusion. Although the topic in question might be better suited to preservationists and the skilled locomotive restoring groups rather than the casual modeler, there are many overlaps between these communities so I've decided to ask here. When looking at photos of AWS electropneumatic equipment located on the cab bulkhead among many classes, I can see two different "types", or "generations", of equipment installed. Generally when looking at the earlier diesel and electric cabs, there are usually four primary AWS bits located directly on the bulkhead - note that this excludes the fire bell: - 'Clear' bell - large grey object mounted on a green backing - Green warning horn - circular mesh-covered object that I think was operated by vacuum(?) - Battery isolation and cab change end switches - Large box-ish apparatus usually painted silver, grey or blue - Green electropneumatic valve We'll call this the "modern" set. However there seems to be a different set of equipment in certain locos, sharing many components: - 'Clear' bell - large grey object mounted on a green backing - Green warning horn - circular mesh-covered object that I think was operated by vacuum(?) - BIS/change end apparatus: this time appearing more octogonal in nature - Green electropneumatic valve, a more traditional box-like shape with raised surfaces, compared to the complex shape of the previous set - Relay valve Does anyone know if there's any way to categorize or separate these? In the former shot of the 31 bulkhead, we see the one set of equipment. However, in the preserved Ped 31018 at the NRM, there is the latter and less-common set of AWS equipment. Similarly as the preserved 40s have the "modern" set, there also appear to be some using the earlier set in these earlier shots. https://www.flickr.com/photos/126693116@N06/43397270105/in/faves-125881805@N02/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/126693116@N06/37838142416/in/faves-125881805@N02/ Was the earlier equipment changed out in favor of modern equipment at some point? Was it down to builder? Region? I wonder if anyone involved in preservation have received a loco with the earlier set, and swapped them out for the "modern" set of equipment. Any ideas?

This is what I'd thought was the case, pure publicity even for the Condor as you mention, although the unoffical naming of GWR fast freights is something of interest. Since very few shots exist of named freights with headboards I think it would be safe to assume that none of the others truly ran with headboards more than a handful of times. A part-fitted goods getting prestige in the form of a headboard or even a name might be self-defeating, with how much time it would have spent sitting in a loop.

In the Brush traction video on the construction of the Class 30s it was mentioned that one of the important duties the new class had was to work the "Lea Valley Enterprise" freight, with a headboard. Of course, this might have been a promotional move as a shot I'd seen on Flickr of the same train was double-headed although without its headboard. Another shot shows an "East Essex Enterprise". And of course, it goes without saying that the notorious Condor had its own headboard which seemed to have been used for many runs. It begs the question that apart from these supposedly remarkable trains, what other freights might have been given "headboard status"?

Would AWS be fitted to these locos as-built? The 1960 Electrification Conference mentions ATC, however a stock image used of the Class 83 cab in 1960 shows an AWS sunflower indication. Were they to be used interchangeably at the time? I'm trying to figure out whether there was the typical green AWS relay box , horn and isolation switchgear on the cab bulkhead above the equip. room door. However I can't find any photos of them that show this stuff. Was the typical AWS equipment fitted to any diesels/electrics as-built in the 60s pilot scheme? For example would a Cl 40 have the AWS stuff on the cab bulkhead? AL3 1960s cab R2

I've tried to replicate the enginesounds as found in the Brush Traction video, using Mirrlees audio on a testbed. Much, much throatier than the EE replacements .

I’ll add Brian Daniels’ albums of detail shots for nearly every mainline loco class has been very, very useful in many situations. Adam Lucas on Flickr also has got nice libraries. https://flickr.com/photos/63609267@N05/sets/72157648321204748 Unless there already is such a resource on here - would a thread linking to detail picture libraries for each loco class be helpful? Currently it seems to be pure luck to strike a goldmine of photographs that answer every single question I have!

On the continued topic of liveries, would anyone remember what colors the AC electric cabs got in the early days? I know diesels were a cream/off-white and dark green for the bottom half, but what about the early electrics? The pics attached suggests cream for the top, bluish-grey for the control desk, and white for the lower half of the cab interior walls? AC Electric by Kerry Parker, on Flickr Scroll to Class 73 interior - http://www.dawlishtrains.com/driving-cabs-electric-loco.html

Thanks for the clarifications on ABBs/VCBs in operation guys. So it was a rail mounted magnet that would trigger the opening on the loco? In the picture attached, was it the rightmost insulator stack that would rotate, thus disengaging the two-pronged contacts?

One Flickr comment reads that E3036 was stationed at Chester along with Scotsman & Sir Nigel Gresley from 2nd to 16th of July in 1967 - for the Chester Festival of Arts. An interesting combination of locos nonetheless.

Interesting re the accidents and dates for those examples. Definitely do give context for the obscure liveries compared to the other class members. That’s also a nice shot of E3027 in what I would call a very clean Electric blue livery - finished with yellow ends. Here’s E3025 in a not-so-pretty condition, in the same mentioned livery. Any details about this one going in for accident repairs?

I wasn't sure that electric blue full yellow ends was noted as an actual livery, although it does make sense. I have seen a Flickr shot of an AL3 donning this scheme, albeit the yellow ends were clean and the electric blue was very worn and tatty - if they were to have repainted the whole loco I assume it would have gotten Rail Blue. However I am convinced that some AL4s and Al3s got the darker blue with yellow panels. In this shot the 84 seems to have a closer shade of blue to the full-on Rail blue of E3045 in front of it. And in the far back there is a true Electric blue roarer that has a lighter shade. Another shot shows off a similar livery on another 84. These Flickr shots as well, noting importantly the lack of red headstocks, as well as on the earlier shot of E3038: https://www.flickr.com/photos/16236990@N08/2967531990/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/35513740@N04/31532305151/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/dave58282/6512425327/ This is leading me to believe that the roarers (mostly 84s, at least one 83?) that were stored at Longsight got the same paint treatment as the AL6s of the time.

I've been working away at the AC electrics and have got a few questions. How exactly would the air circuit breakers function? If a fault current was received, would the two-pronged spinning 'thing' move away from the contact? Most shots I see show it engaged with the contact even when the panto was down. What was the case with liveries towards the mid-late 60s? I have seen: Electric Blue, Electric Blue SYP, Rail Blue No YP, Rail Blue SYP, Electric Blue FYE (!). I'm assuming towards the 70s the painters didn't really care too much as blue was blue, which resulted in all sorts of odd combinations depending on the works. Here is a shot of an AL3 undeniably with the Rail Blue (as applied to all 86s early on) and panels. I've seen shots of a few other classes with this shade as well, I've attempted an AL5 in this livery below. For those who know the specifics of AC loco technology - what exactly would the electrical equipment for changeover 25kV to 6.25kV comprise? All I see on loco roofs in the early 60s, that is missing in later shots, is a large ceramic capacitor voltage divider. From looking at as good of a roof-view of early 60s AC electrics as possible, I am assuming that this is the only additional structure that was removed when the second pantograph was removed. Another odd question - were the removable roof panels actually translucent? I saw a video of a walkthrough of the Class 87 equipment room and there was skylight from the translucent roof panels. This one might be tricky as I had read that at some point they were replaced with more robust aluminium panels. AL5 Rail Blue SYP

Returning to this thread with a few questions. Were the ex-LNER converted 12 ft. WB fish vans painted Ice Blue? How about the unconverted outside-door versions? It seems possible as the photo on this page (https://scottishrsl.livejournal.com/201941.html) featuring 70038 Robin Hood on Fish has what looks like a wood-framed van painted ice blue, the second van in consist looks also like a mucky shade of it. Did vans necessarily need roller bearings to get the "ABERDEEN AND KINGS CROSS" branding? This shot (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/6227393040/in/faves-125881805@N02/) shows an Insulfish van with plate axleboxes and a prominent black patch that I can only assume to bear the above branding. I've been working on 3D models of the fish vans, picture for context. Ron