John ks

Maybe a stupid question but is there a decoder fitted to the loco?

A DC loco will hum/ buzz when placed on DCC & if left for too long could result in the motor burning out

John

Edit reread your post & you mentioned trying another decoder so i think my answer is irrelevant

A picture of the decoder installation may help find any wiring problems

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

OK…this is all your fault…..I decided I wouldn’t touch the new APT as my old one is in perfect condition apart from the traction quality of the power car…..yes I did it, ordered the new power car, now the challenge is to paint match the new to old.

 

Oh well nothing else to do 

Looking at images of the new NDM, the body of the old & new NDM's look very similar in the way the bogies interface with the body

It may be possible to put the chassis from the new NDM into the old NDM body with little or no modification

I currently have 2 original APT's  2+1+2 ( the NDM has been repowered with Heljan Class 33 parts in a scratch built chassis that the body rotates around much like the new NDM)

& 2+2+5 ( One NDM has no power bogies & the second NDM has 2 power bogies (both original ringfield types))

Somewhere between London Airport & me is a New NDM  which would have been the second powered NDM for a 14 car set

If the rumour is true that the 7 car APT comes with 2 powered NDM'' then the guts of the extra new NDM may well end up inside an old NDM

John

Is it possible that bus wires across the gap are crossed over so that the phasing (DCC for polarity of the bus from 6 to 12 o'clock is reversed

if a loco will run between between 1 to 5 o'clock & run between 7 to 11o'clock but stops at both joints then the the above is very likely

To test for the correct polarity you will need some form of testing device EG a multi-meter or my favourite is a automotive lamp (12Volt, 3 to 12 Watt) The 2 in the photo look to be drawing about 12Watts between them

To run these tests you will need the controller to be set to full speed & nothing on the track

Tests from A to B , A to b , a to b  & a to B should all light the bulb Or give a reading on a multi-meter set to volts

Tests from A to a & B to b should not light the bulb

Hope this helps John

Edited to change some references to DCC Although this applies to DCC

For anybody interested here is a comparison of the 2 Hornby lighting boards that were mentioned in previous posts

If D5 is a Zenner Like ZD1 then the voltage across the capacitor  shouldn't rise above its rated  value

The solder pads marked CO1 & CO2 could be for capacitors (high value SMD types)which could help reduce flicker.

John

PS 

One of my favourite expressions when I disagree with some one is "you are entitled to your opination no matter how wrong it is" 

If my records are correct I ordered mine on 13-11-2019, I ordered the sound upgrade (14-6-2021 i think)

My card was debited a week or 2 ago & 18000 was posted yesterday & the tracking shows it on its way to Heathrow

My last parcel from Rails took 13 days so hopefully it will be here early November, although a parcel from another retailed took 32 days to get to me, so I guess I'll get it when I get it 

John

The red things are Inductors or chokes for RFI & should not be necessary for DCC

I Would remove all wires, connections ( including the chokes) to the circuit board (for the brushes) on the motor & remove all solder from it so that you have a clean surface to start with.

This should isolate the brushes from the frame of the loco (check with a multimeter to ensure the brushes are isolated from the chassis & all pickups)

in the picture i have added a red & black line to show where i think the chokes are connected, the black looks to be connected through the choke to the chassis. The red looks to be connected to a lug on an insulating board. the red wire from the tender may have originally been connected to the other lug on this board.

The green wire is connected from the tender to the loco chassis

Connecting DCC using NMRA colour codes

Red wire from tender to  decoder Red wire   (usually connected to the pickups from the right hand side looking forward)

Green wire from tender to chassis & decoder black wire    (usually connected to the pickups from the left hand side looking forward)

Orange wire from decoder to motor brush (marked Or on circuit board

Grey wire from decoder to motor brush ( marked Gy on circuit board)

The 2 wires poking out of the motor brush circuit i have marked "spring" look to me to be one end of the brush tensioning springs

Provided that none of the copper tracks on the motor brush Printed board are touching the chassis or motor frame this conversion should be doable.

Hope this helps 

John

29 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

“All four axles,”

Excuse me if i am being a little pedantic but while the spec (copied from an email I received recently for the 18100 , E1000 & E2001) does say "all 4 axles "  the rest of the spec indicates  "Powered wheels on outer axles of each bogie " which is common with Heljans practice of having the centre wheels of 6 wheel bogies unpowered (eg class 47 & EM2)

Model Specification Include:

• Five pole motor driving all four axles (two on each bogie) with flywheels
• Powered wheels on outer axles of each bogie 
• 21-pin DCC socket with easy access
• Separately fitted wire handrails and sandpipes
• Spoked wheels
• Etched grilles
• Sprung OLEO buffers
• Flush glazing
• NEM coupler pockets
• Lighting: As per 18000. Two warm white headlights at front (lower left and lower right) in direction of travel and one red tail light at rear (lower centre). Including function (DC and DCC) to switch off tail light when hauling a train. 
• Warm white Cab lights. Including function to switch on/off.
• Separate engine room lights

John

Here is how I would have done it

The top image requires removing the 2 diodes & the 2 Coils (which you have done) & cut the PCB (printed circuit board) tracks in 2 places & add the red jumper wire as shown

This isolates the 2 lights from the rest of the circuit  & gives a place for the blue wire to be connected.

If you want to isolate the chassis from all electrical connections then the option is to cut the PCB track & extend the wire from the rear bogie to the front bogie connection

The lower image shows the lights wired for half wave operation, still requires removing the 2 diodes & the 2 Coils

This wiring allows the loco to still pick up power from the catenary if that is wanted

Don't forget to put the OH/Tk switch into the track position

John

Edit 

Here's one i prepared earlier,

the big difference is that i treated the RH end as the front so red/black, orange/grey & white/yellow are all swapped as compared to the above images

The blue wire with the green & purple wires from the decoder are not connected are terminated in the heat shrink near the left end of the pic

Quote from an Email from  Accurascale

"The legacy of the pandemic is still being felt, with a backlog of projects which are being made by smaller workforces due to social distancing protocols and recruitment difficulties as freedom of movement was restricted for migrating assembly workers. As a result the 92 will begin production in the coming weeks and is now slated for delivery in Q3 2022. We apologise for this delay, but it is something completely out of anyone's control and reflective of the whole manufacturing industry as we begin to emerge from the pandemic restrictions. "

If the highlighted parts are correct then does production take between 9 & 12 months ? (assuming Q3 is July to September)

John

Confirming what has been said in the last few posts. I seem to recall seeing the coupling between the power cars & the coaches  & didn't  see any electrical connection between them

i would hope there is some sort of electrical connection between articulated coaches but wont know until i have one in my hot little hands

If you want sound with your DCC then it may require up to 4 Sound decoders (1 for each power car & 1 for each DT assuming you want the horn sound coming from the DT & not the Power car)

John

I Had the same problem & IIRC it was one of these locos

Remove the worm gear retaining clip from the gear tower. Gently pry off the worm retaining clip by spreading the out the sides shown with the red arrows

Lift out the Worm gear assembly ( don't loose the rear bearing & washer)

engage the drive shaft into the flywheel

engage the  coupling cup over the drive shaft while lowering the worm assembly back into the gear tower 

Replace the retaining clip onto the gear tower

the drive shaft should have a little back/front movement but not enough that the drive shaft falls out

 Hope this helps

John

Looking at the couplings they look to be lower than scale height 

I understand that they are at this height to keep the NEM pocket at the correct height to allow for the fitting of other couplings

I had a thought & realise that it is probably to late to retool the couplings pockets but if you were to add a second MEN pocket above the standard NEM pocket then the deliner coupling could be placed in the top pocket to be closer to scale height.

The modified pics should illustrate my idea

Should the diaphragm completely surrounds the couplings or not( as per you model), there are images of both arrangements

John

This is a bit like the "how long is a piece of string " question

It depends on specification of the LED,  the series resistance value, if there are more than 1 LED in series with each resistor & how bright the LEDs are

this will be a bit inaccurate but will give results that should work OK

First ignore the LED & calculate the current draw for the series resistor 

A 1K resistor connected across 12V will draw 12mA (from the formula V=IR  "I" being current)

8 resistors across 12V will draw 96mA which is less than the 100mA rating of your decoder 

If you put a LED in the circuit then the current draw will be less

so in the above case you could put at least 8 LED/resistor sets for each decoder output

If you are referring to the LED strips that come on  rolls with each group of 3 LEDs fed by one resistor

Then you may find that with the onboard resistor they are still to bright

Cut a group of 3 off the strip & connect another resistor is series with that group of 3 LEDS

Keep increasing its resistance until the LEDs are at a suitable brightness

With a 1k resistor the max current draw for the group of 3 LEDs will be 12mA as shown above, Now you can have 24 LEDS per output(8 groups of 3)

With a 4k7 resistor the max current draw for the group of 3 LEDs will be 2.55mA. Now you can have 39 LEDS per output (13 groups of 3)

With a 10k7 resistor the max current draw for the group of 3 LEDs will be 1.2mA. Now you can have 96 LEDS per output (32 groups of 3)

Hope this helps

John

I seem to recall reading that some Heljan locos were wired wrong

If this is the case you have several choices 

Contact Heljan to see if they can help

Correct the wiring yourself

Change some CV's to remedy the problem

It will depend on what you are using to program your Decoders

If you are manually entering values into  CV's then you will need a manual for the decoder***

Here is a couple of screen shots from my setup

I am using JMRI DecoderPro connected via a Sprog II to an ESU Decoder tester*, With a NCE decoder**

After JMRI identifies the decoder go to function mapping  & swap F0(f) & F0(r) as shown in the images

Or you could do something similar in "lights" by changing "Output 1 active" from "Only in forward" to "Only in reverse"

Repeat for output 2

Hope this helps 

John

*instead of the tester you could place your loco on a track connected to the Sprog

** The decoder that was handy to get the screen shots

*** find the section on function mapping/lighting & change the relevant CV's to suit

1 hour ago, smokeyone said:

curious as to what the tiny coil of wire does to the right of the right hand motor brush

It is a choke, also known as an inductor 

It is there to reduce RFI (Radio Frequency Interference ) on DC & can be deleted on DCC

If I wasn't clear in the previous post the wire from the inductor needs to be unsoldered from  the RH motor brush & replaced with the orange wire from the decoder

If you wish to retain the inductor then the following drawing should help

John

7 hours ago, smokeyone said:

really small 12v bulbs..

They are really small bulbs

They will work on DCC provided their current draw does not exceed the decoder function output

If my knowledge of Fleischmann is correct then the lights are controlled by diodes which are a small disc between the lamp & its contact

(Represented by the grey disc in the drawing)

You need to isolate the motor brushes from the track pickups

Disconnect the red wire to the rear light at the motor

Disconnect the & remove the choke (is used for RFI suppression in DC it is not necessary for DCC)

Cut the bridge on the circuit board that holds the brushes (marked on the drawings)

Once this is done the brushes should be insulated from the chassis & all wheels 

Use a multimeter to check

The 2 drawings represent the before & after electrical connections in the loco

The thick blue line represents the metal chassis of the loco

If the uninsulated wheels that connect to the chassis are on the left hand side of the  of the loco then the colour of the wires from the decoder will be to NMRA standards

If not then swap the red & black wires to the decoder(IE red goes to where black was & black goes to where red was)  & similarly  swap the orange & grey wires to the decoder

Regarding the lights 

Front light( cylinder end), disconnect the red wire from the pickup & connect it to the white wire from the decoder

Rear light  Disconnect the red wire at the motor end & connect to the yellow decoder wire

If one or both lights don't work as expected the the diode for that light can be removed , turned around & replaced or removed completely

The blue wire from the decoder is not needed as the lights get half wave DCC from the chassis

If you decide to go to LED,s then you will need a resistor for each LED & the blue wire from the decoder will need to be connected to each led

John

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

Interesting variant on a buckeye coupler with extra alignment horns at the side

To the best on my knowledge they are a Janney  tightloc coupling  

First picture of one i saw was on a Santa-Fe F7 Passenger loco (Type F)

Quote from Wikipedia " They are designed with mechanical features which reduce slack in normal operation and prevent telescoping in derailments, yet remain compatible with other Janney types used by North American freight railroads."

According to wikipedia type H are used on class 321, networker & other EMU's

My guess that when used on the APT-P they lock the 2 couplings together when the power car & first coach coupling twist (rotate relative to each other) especially if the tilting of the the 2 cars is out of sync

John 

3 minutes ago, ac1874 said:

Has anybody seen or heard any more about release dates? Are we really 4 or 5 weeks away from an APT?

If i am reading Hornby's site correctly then July for the 5 & 7 car sets & September for the rest of the coaches & power car

Hope this helps 

John

3 hours ago, Kubel82 said:

1.  Can I connect a non-ESU decoder, such as a Hornby TTS and get a sensible fault diagnosis from the Tester?

Short answer   

yes

Longer answer 

The decoder tester is a virtual loco, in that it has all the electrical components found in a loco IE. motor, lights & speaker , so yes

How you connect the tester may make a difference as to which decoders can be checked

EG if you connect to your DCC programming track then it is limited to that DCC system's capability

It can be connected to a computer(running JMRI decoder pro) through a Sprog then programming is limited to the capability of JMRI

It could be connected to a computer(running LokProgrammer) using a LokProgrammer, my understanding is this setup works best with ESU decoders

Sorry if i got a bit longwinded 

3 hours ago, Kubel82 said:

3.  Is the speaker polarity important?

Short answer No

If you are using multiple speakers than the polarity of one speaker to the other is important but the connection of the group of speakers to the decoder is not

Regarding the other questions , i don't know

John

13 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

three core twisted affair, presumably a three phase supply being the main

I think you might find that it is a 4 core bundle, 3 phase & neutral

In Brisbane lot of this type of overhead conductor has been replacing the more traditional 4 single conductors on cross arms.

John

Maybe the system needs to be cycled once for the frog polarity to be synced with the point motor?

Is the frog phasing (polarity)of both points correct when,

1—the system is first switched on?

2—when both points are set to straight

3—when both points are switched to curved

Are both frogs connected to the frog pwr connections? (If yes then this could be your problem)

Or

Is one frog connected to the “frog PWR” * connection & the other frog connected to the “DPDT Sw2” connections then one frog may be the incorrect phase

If this is the case then swap the red & black wires for the corresponding frog at the cobalt SS connection

John

* I am assuming that the “frog PWR” connections are a DPDT set of contacts similar to the “DPDT Sw” connections

At least one is now on its way to Oz

Thanks to the team at Accurascale

John

Depending on how complicated you want to be

I'd be inclined to go this way

"Sw" indicates where a switch could be placed to isolate the section

If you wanted to be able to use 2 controllers then you could feed them through a DPDT centre off Switch to each section

I've shown one section wired for block control

John

Edit As Cliff pointed out in the next post there was a serious error in the drawing . Should be fixed now

Are we there yet sorry that makes me sound like the impatient child in the back seat

 Has there been any updates on this model

John

On 16/12/2020 at 06:40, Patriot87003 said:

This evening I’ve tried the ‘resistor bypass’ method

I would be a little concerned that bypassing the resistors might reduce the life expectancy of the relay on the GM500 

I would be inclined to put a second resistor in parallel with the existing resistor

The existing resistor looks to be a 1K resistor 

A second 1k resistor in parallel would give a total resistance of 500 Ohms. if  the GM500 works reliably the  job done

An alternative would be to get a selection of resistors with values ranging between 100ohms & 1000ohms 

Leave the bypass in place and put a resistor in series between the yellow wire & the GM500, (two resistors, one in each yellow wire will be required)

Start with the largest value resistor & work down, in value until the GM 500 works reliably

John